Tesco Cicil Recoveryover £1.65 magazine SWAP not steal

[chancentrate]

Hi,

 

Yesterday, Tuesday, I went to my local Tesco to buy the new issue of Heat magazine (new issues are released every Tuesday); I have to buy it for my work (I work at a competing celeb weekly). I picked up Heat and Look, paid at the till, went back to work. When I got back to my desk, I realized the copy of Heat I had was actually LAST WEEK's issue which I hadn't noticed when I purchased it.

 

I was pretty ticked off as they shouldn't be selling out of date goods and as I work at a mag myself, I know how important it is to up to date, Heat wouldn't be happy to know heir stuff is being sold out of date.

ANYWAYS - went back that night, about 4 hrs later, to get a new one, took my receipt and everything. They did have the new issue now but the old issue was still on the shelf as well. The customer service desk was rammed so I thought screw it - I put my out of date issue back on the shelf, picked up a new one and just put it in my bag. I then shopped around for my dinner, paid and left. On my way out the security stopped me, immediately I knew why. He'd seen me on cctv, gone to retrieve my old issue of heat and started asking me for my name. I was so flabbergasted I didn't really know what to do. I did say that the old issue was one I'd bought that day and I had the receipt, I then just presumed they wanted me to pay for the new one or something. To be honest, I was somewhat scared as this has never happened to me before, I just sorta wanted to get outta there!

 

Anyways, he starts asking for my name and address which I give, I still have no idea what is going on and am sorta laughing at the absurdity of the situation. Eventually I'm taken to a backroom, where the manager is and the security calls up the civil recovery people. At this point I am getting pretty nervous. The manager asked me why I did it, by this point I realize it doesn't matter as the security guard didn't seem to care and stupidly I just say it was a mistake but I do add that they were selling an out of date issue. (I was somewhat thrown by the entire situation and was getting nervous about being arrested or something ridiculous so rather than putting up a huge fight, I just wanted to comply and leave. I'd already explained to the security guard and seen that it made no difference. I figured I'd just get on with this and take it up with head office. Also I had no idea what was happening, I didn't know what civil recovery is etc and no one was really telling me anything despite my repeated questioning of, "So what's happening now? Who is he on the phone to? What is going on??") Eventually they verify my address, ban me for 6 months (which is REALLY annoying) and give me the civil recovery notice. My head is spinning a bit as I have no idea what any of this means and the gravity of what is happening hits me. The guard was describing my physical appearance to the people on the phone, I started to wonder if this meant I was getting a record or something. And again, neither of them would tell me what was happening. I remained purposely very helpful, offering anything they needed, very smiley etc as I figured this would quicken things. I THINK I signed something, but I can't remember for sure. Again, I was sorta in shock and scared and was just trying to capitulate to get out of there. I didn't want to make more trouble. This was a mistake I realize...!

 

I was told I'd receive a letter regarding my fine (this was the first mention of a fine) but in my view I do not see the problem. I was simply returning one item, and taking another of equal value AND it was their fault for selling the out-of-date in any case!! I'm worried though as I don't think I made myself clear about this. I told the guard but not the manager (who btw was the most unhappy woman I have ever met and CLEARLY took an instant dislike to me.) at least not clearly enough. I realize this was a huge mistake, but again, I was just trying to be as polite and helpful as I could, I didn't want to make the situation worse even though the entire time I was thinking "this isn't right...". No police were called or anything.

 

So basically - what do I do now? I tried to phone the civil recovery people to find out what my fine is but the phone number doesn't work (I've tried both from my mobile and landline). I mean it was for £1.65 magazine which they still have in any case, but after reading horror stories on here I'm now terrified they're going to charge me £150 or something. Have I totally screwed myself by not fighting for my rights more at the time? Or can I write a letter explaining and get off of this? They could literally look at the CCTV footage from 4 hours previous to see me buying the old issue, I was wearing a very bright jacket so I'd be easy to spot!

 

Any advice would be helpful, I'm a decent law-abiding person and this has gotten me trembling with worry about the fine, my 'record' etc. At the same time I'm getting more and more angry as I realize that I don't think I was in the wrong. If I'd gone to the customer service it would have been fine, I could have shown them the receipt and just swapped. It would've been the exact same thing, the only difference being it would've taken twice the time. I just skipped the middle man.

 

Also - as I work at a magazine, I know a lot of people in the industry and am tempted to go to them with the story (particularly heat magazine itself!). Any thoughts people???

 

PS - how long does it normally take to receive the civil recovery letter?

 

Sorry this is so long, thanks for taking the time to read and any advice would be very welcome!!

Edited March 24, 2010 by chancentrate

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

What you should do is sent a PM (Personal Message) to JonCris please include a link to your thread, he is the best person to advise you.

 

Andy

[mightymouse_69]

This was very much a steal and not so much a swap...

 

By your reasoning, i could buy a copy of Hello... then when the new issue comes out just swap them over thus never having to pay for the magazine again!

 

Im sure Jon Cris will help with the civil recovery, but there can be no denial that an offence took place!

[chancentrate]

Thank you old_andrew2007, I already wrote to Jon yesterday but he hasn't yet read the message. So I'm just waiting!

[Button1]

This was very much a steal and not so much a swap...

 

By your reasoning, i could buy a copy of Hello... then when the new issue comes out just swap them over thus never having to pay for the magazine again!

 

Im sure Jon Cris will help with the civil recovery, but there can be no denial that an offence took place!

 

OMG mightymouse............what a load of absolute b*llocks!! Sorry, but it really is!! "This was very much a steal??" Absolutely not! I hope if I am ever tried in a court of law you aint on the jury!!

 

IMHO, the OP was just in a rush and thought he/she could save herself a little bit of time.....and didn't think he/she was doing anything wrong! Some people are obliviously innocent in their thinking and don't honestly believe there is any deceipt in their actions. Naieve perhaps, but obliviously innocent in my book!

 

chancentrate, read through the threads by JonCris and await his PM.

 

Good luck and keep us posted! Do not take this lying down! You DO NOT deserve to be on any register of offenders!!

 

Button

[mightymouse_69]

OMG mightymouse............what a load of absolute b*llocks!! Sorry, but it really is!! "This was very much a steal??" Absolutely not! I hope if I am ever tried in a court of law you aint on the jury!!

 

IMHO, the OP was just in a rush and thought he/she could save herself a little bit of time.....and didn't think he/she was doing anything wrong! Some people are obliviously innocent in their thinking and don't honestly believe there is any deceipt in their actions. Naieve perhaps, but obliviously innocent in my book!

 

Maybe you should look up the relevant law.

 

I will help you:

 

1) Appropriate (check)

2) Property (check)

3) Belonging to another (check)

4) Dishonestly [per the Ghosh test] (Check)

5) With intention to permanantly deprive (Check)

 

The Theft act provideds situations where conduct is not dishonest, and a bid to save time is not one of them.

 

Not that something like this would go to court anyway - probably because, admittedly, dishonesty could be a challenge.

 

Since the OP is not in trouble with the police, its probably not the place to discuss it - in was just pointing out that i law, it is a theft.

[Button1]

"and the security calls up the civil recovery people"

 

chancentrate..........do you know why they did this?? Because they doubted this incident would hold water, and wanted to clarify it with RLP! They do this if they are uncertain as to whether they should proceed....thus meaning there is doubt over the whole incident!

 

Just another thought, how would Heat magazine feel about Tesco selling out of date issues?? If the correct issue was on the shelf in the first place, this whole incident would never have occurred!

[Button1]

Maybe you should look up the relevant law.

 

I will help you:

 

1) Appropriate (check)

2) Property (check)

3) Belonging to another (check)

4) Dishonestly [per the Ghosh test] (Check)

5) With intention to permanantly deprive (Check)

 

The Theft act provideds situations where conduct is not dishonest, and a bid to save time is not one of them.

 

Not that something like this would go to court anyway - probably because, admittedly, dishonesty could be a challenge.

 

Since the OP is not in trouble with the police, its probably not the place to discuss it - i was just pointing out that i law, it is a theft.

 

mightymouse, you can check or tick all the boxes you like! I ain't a lawyer, but I do believe there has to be 'intent'?? In this case, clearly there was none!

 

Like I said, oblivously innocent!

 

And ps...........let's give this person a little bit of help and support.........and not spout text book check lists!

Edited March 27, 2010 by Button1

[mightymouse_69]

mightymouse, you can check or tick all the boxes you like! I ain't a lawyer, but I do believe there has to be 'intent'?? In this case, clearly there was none!

 

The mental element of the offence (intent) is: "Intention of permanently depriving the other of it [their property]"

 

This has been fulfilled here.

 

The other mental element would be dishonestly. Question for the Jury that one - but from my reading, and from what i have seen in court, stories like "i wanted to save time so didnt bother queing" dont hold up.

[Button1]

Well, my final thought to you on this Saturday night is like you said, "let's leave it up to the jury!"

 

mightymouse, you are entitled to your opinion........but I am extremely glad you didn't add your tuppence worth to my case when I was at my lowest ebb last summer!

 

chancentrate, hopefully some other forum members will come along with some constructive help, support and advice for you.

[mightymouse_69]

Well, its a public forum afterall.

 

Anyway - The police were not called so the OP shouldn't be too bothered about that side of things. I was just a little shocked that people would think it is ok to just go into a shop and 'swap' things...

 

Im sure the OP has already been helped by JonCris, and is already probably aware of how to handle thugs like RLP. But facts are facts... people asking for help surely cant always expect to get the "oh its not your fault you accidently walked out of the shop with the widescreen tv...."!!!

 

I think i was fair - i stated my opinion (that she had in fact done wrong) and told her where to get help! Jeese, what do you have to do for some free speech nowadays!!

 

I am very sorry i was not able to join in on your case, i am sure you are dissapointed

[Button1]

This was very much a steal and not so much a swap...

 

By your reasoning, i could buy a copy of Hello... then when the new issue comes out just swap them over thus never having to pay for the magazine again!

 

Im sure Jon Cris will help with the civil recovery, but there can be no denial that an offence took place!

 

Oop.....sorry, my mistake!! Yup....you sure did help!!

[mightymouse_69]

Oop.....sorry, my mistake!! Yup....you sure did help!!

 

I am glad we are finally starting to agree. Maybe we can be friends?

[chancentrate]

Thanks everyone who's been replying!! I wrote to JonCris but he hasn't actually logged into the site since last Monday so I'm still waiting I'm afraid!

 

And to be fair, my number one gripe with the entire situation is that if Tesco had done THEIR job properly and stocked up-to-date products the entire situation would've been avoided. I'm already planning to let Heat know that Tesco is stocking old issues of their magazine.

 

I'm sorta relaxing more, at first I could barely sleep I was so worried. Coming here actually helped/hindered me. It scared me to realize what the fees they charge can be and how frightening and intimidating their letters will be, but it also spurred me on to fight them upon seeing relentless stories of their totally unjustified appeals for money.

I just wanted some advice from other people (like JonCris) who've dealt with this before to let me know what my next step should be. Shall I contact Tesco directly? Shall I just wait to receive the letter asking for money or go to them first? Shall I ignore the whole thing? Hopefully he'll get back to me soon and offer some peace of mind.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

I'd wait for the letter, JonCris might well be on holiday

[chancentrate]

Thanks old_andrew2007 I hope he gets back soon! He does very much appear to be the expert. In the meantime, if anyone else has any advice, I'm all ears!

[mightymouse_69]

If you are bored, you could try reading the CAB report.

 

I found it quiet interesting and it should give you a bit of encouragment... there i is a section which reveals that people like RLP very rarely go to court.

[chancentrate]

Yes I read the CAb report already and you're right - very encouraging indeed! It's one of the main things that got me to relax about the whole situation.

 

JonCris hasn't logged into this site since the 21st so I presume he must be on holiday. I actually received the letter from the civil recovery group yesterday, they are requesting £40 (£30 if i pay now...of course!). Not at all the £100 fee I worried about but still extortionate.

 

I plan to contact the CAB and find out what they recommend - I imagine with such a negligable amount of money I could fight the case quite easily? Or is nothing easy when it comes to civil recovery...

 

Lemme know what you guys think and wish me luck!

[Zamzara]

There is a negation to dishonesty under s. 2 of the Theft Act along the lines of it is not theft if the person "deprives the other of the property in the belief that the other would have consented if he had known the circumstances".

 

The belief must be honestly held. It seems to me that the shop would (and should have) agreed to such an exchange if it had known of the circumstances.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Zamzara

[chancentrate]

Wow - that's incredibly helpful. Thanks so much, Zamzara!!

[bigsteve0000]

did u keep the reciept, the date on this will help confirm your story and suport your belief that it would resonable for you to believe that thay would do the swap, The product code on the reciept should confirm that they had sold you an out of date copy of the magazine.

[chancentrate]

Get this - I had it when I walked in the store to get the new issue, I remember getting it out to show the security guard...and that's it. I can NOT find it anywhere. I can only assume I left it there, inadvertently gave it to the guard or simply dropped it etc. Infuriating, huh?

 

I did pay by card so I can prove the transaction and I would've used my Tesco club card so this should have a record of what I bought in said transaction. Plus I know what time it was so they could literally check the video and WATCH me!

 

Still, I was absolutely incensed when I realized I no longer have the receipt from the original purchase as I realize this greatly diminishes my claim.

[bigsteve0000]

send them a letter stating that "no crime or dishonest act took place" and that you are the victim of an over zelouse security guard. say that you

 

"consider there claim for cost unreasonable and that you do not wish to recieve any more correspondence from them other than to confirm that the matter is closed, you will consider anything else to be harrasment."

 

That may shut em up but chances are they'll send out the usual standard letters.

[Mossycat]

I'm sorry but I don't get the argument here.

 

The OP made a decision to purchase something (in this case a magazine) and paid for it, it is NOT illegal for a store to have last weeks and this weeks magazines on display or for sale.

 

The OP leaves the store and then returns to ask for an exchange, I say ask for because it is NOT an automatic right of the OP to be given an exchange, they offered to buy the magazine, the store accepted the offer and sold the magazine.

 

The OP does not ask for permission to exchange but decides to do so regardless (citing a long queue as the reason), a security guard sees this and then spends time on dealing with it.

 

The store could well argue that the OP could have read the magazine purchased and then decided to swap it for the latest issue (I'm sure that isn't the case but it would be a valid argument).

 

The store is further inconvenienced because the stock figures would be inaccurate, it would show one too many old magazines and one too few current magazines because the OP did not inform anyone of the swap.

 

Whilst I agree the store would have probably agreed to a swap the actions of the OP were unreasonable in effecting the swap in the manner they did, and to a large extent they have brought this on themselves, and trying to hide behind blaming the store for not removing old issues is a bit lame.

 

Mossy

[Naxxas]

Get this - I had it when I walked in the store to get the new issue, I remember getting it out to show the security guard...and that's it. I can NOT find it anywhere. I can only assume I left it there, inadvertently gave it to the guard or simply dropped it etc. Infuriating, huh?

 

I did pay by card so I can prove the transaction and I would've used my Tesco club card so this should have a record of what I bought in said transaction. Plus I know what time it was so they could literally check the video and WATCH me!

 

Still, I was absolutely incensed when I realized I no longer have the receipt from the original purchase as I realize this greatly diminishes my claim.

 

my advice hun is simple.

 

throw the letter in the bin.

 

lets look at the facts...

 

£1.65 magazine

£40.00 costs (they claim)

 

it will cost £65.00 to issue the claim in the county court.

 

verdict? not economically viable to do so.

 

breathe easy, they will not proceed on your case!

its simply not worth their time, they are bullies, they thrive on threats,

their threats are empty, all of them in these kind of cases!! they even moan about CAG on their website lol. yes they do!! go look under ther tabbed sections with questions and answers CAG gets a mention when we tell people to ignore their letters lol.