old accounting firm i used back in 2000/2004 has lodged a claim against me

[burmafriday]

Hi Jasper,

 

Thanks for your input. Its really very good as it brought many things back to me.

First, I am not familiar with CPR 7 and /or 8 and checked it on the web - its regarding the leagl costs of the defendants. They are represented by a firm of solicitors. I am representing myself. So i guess they will go for No. 8.

 

The thing is when i appointed them to act on my behalf, i signed the "appoint agreement". In that document i gave them indemnity should my company cease trading. Its because of this indemnity that they are coming after me.

 

They issued me a writ - to which i pleaded not guilty. They are negotiating to settle and allow me to may monthly payments but they want a charge on my house. i have not admitted liability nor will i agree to them having a charge on my house.

 

I did make a part payment back in 2003/4 but i never admitted liability. as i mentioned in my response to Rebel11 i am waiting for further details from the Claiments.

 

As soon as i have more detials, i will of couse seek fruther advice from CAG.

 

But if they already have solicitors representing them, they must think that the liability is claimable within 7 years. This seems to be the key issue.

 

look forward to your comments.

Many thanks/BF

[Jasper1965]

CPR 7 & 8 concern commencement of proceedings and set out the process for bringing a claim.

 

I'm puzzled about the word "writ", are you sure it's a writ served by a court or do you mean they've issued a county court claim against you?

 

If the last payment/acknowledgment was in 03/04 then their "right to action" is defeated by the period set out in the limitation act 1980 (assuming you are in england/wales, it's five years in scotland btw.).

 

Statute barred is an absolute defence.

 

It might be helpful if you could reproduce the particulars of claim removing any personally identifying details.

[burmafriday]

Hi ArtisanUK

Thanks so much. i am very impressed. can you send me a link?

 

Hi Jasper - thanks for your message - Thanks for Claifying CPR 7/8.

And, yes i think you are right - i am now pretty sure its a county court claim and not writ - Does this make a difference?

 

If the limitation is 6 years why is their solicitor advising them that they have a case as they are within 7 years limitation.

 

you said "...reproduce the particulars of claim removing any personally identifying details..." what do u mean by this? one of my problems is that i gave them a personal indemity should the company fail. However, if the limitation is 6 years - this becomes irrelevant. Do you agree?

 

thanks/BF

[dx100uk]

post up the claim form using:

 

scan your agreement

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

browse to your pdf file and upload it

hit close this windows at the bottom below upload it box

 

and its 6yrs not 7

 

dx

[Ganymede]

Hi Rebel11

 

thanks for the information - so basically they have 6 years to make a claim, and not 7 - thats very interesting.

I dont remember all the details but i did say to them that i was not going to make payment to their invoice as they

messed up on my VAT returns.

 

They served me a writ and i pleaded not guilty. I also requested further and better particulars. on receipt i will have a better idea.

my problem is that i no loinger have all the documents relating to their work . Hopefully, i will remember more once i see the paperwork.

But now i am writing to you, i am reminded that i kept a back up of my the PC. I will try and find the drive over the weekend and check/

 

You mentioned CCJ's. What impact may they have? I do not have any .

(I did pick one up last week - but this was on another matter with another party. I am appealing to have it set aside.)

 

Many thanks/BF

 

 

You legal terminology is a bit mixed up.

 

By "writ" I assume you mean Claim Form and by "pleaded not guilty" I assume you mean submitted a Defence?

 

When did you receive the Claim Form from the Court and what stage exactly are you at? What was the last thing you received from the Court?

[Jasper1965]

And, yes i think you are right - i am now pretty sure its a county court claim and not writ - Does this make a difference?

 

Yes they are very different, let's establish what exactly it is that you've received and we'll deal with it.

 

 

If the limitation is 6 years why is their solicitor advising them that they have a case as they are within 7 years limitation.

 

 

A good question for which there can only be one answer:

Money!

 

Have a little look through the debt collection part of this website and on a daily basis you'll read of people being hounded by debt collectors and banks solicitors for statute barred debts. It's speculative practice, if the defendant doesn't know about statute barring or fails to defend they can still get the money. Sadly enough people fail to learn that a claim is statute barred or simply fail to defend to ensure this behaviour is lucrative for the claimants.

If their solicitor informed them that they had lost their right to action under the limitation act 1980 then, well in short he wouldn't currently be getting paid for bringing the claim, would he?

In fairness the solicitor might well brief the client that although the claim is statute barred the court fees are so low in respect of the amount sought that it would represent a worthwhile gamble for the client.

 

one of my problems is that i gave them a personal indemity should the company fail. However, if the limitation is 6 years - this becomes irrelevant. Do you agree?

 

It's a little bit more complicated than that but the net result is the same as follows:

 

The personal indemnity is actually still valid what has happened is that the claimant accrued a "cause of action" and upon that cause, a "right to action" when the company failed to pay against an invoice in the agreed manner. Thus wronged, the law gives the claimant a finite period in which to bring court proceedings (six years). If the claimant fails to bring proceedings within the specified period then they lose forever the "right to action", the cause still exists, and the indemnity still exists but they are denied the right to action which basically means they can ask you for the money but they cannot seek enforcement of the personal indemnity throughthe court.

 

If a debtor claims an account to be statute barred and states that they are not going to be making any payment upon the account, then the creditor must withdraw from all debt collection activity. It's not an offence to ask for payment on an sb debtas in the eyes of the law the debt still exists but it might constitute an offence under CPUTR's to continue to ask a debtor for payment once SB status has been claimed. The matter should be reported to trading standards.

 

 

If you enter statute barred as a defence, the burden of proof is firmly upon the claimant to prove that it is not.

Importantly they can only do this by proving either of the following:

That within the limitation period you acknowledged the debt by making a part payment towards it.

That within the limitation period you acknowledged the debt in writing and signed the acknowledgment.

 

If you can be sure that you made no payment and did not acknowledge the debt in writing then SB appears to be the correct defence to use.

[42man]

There is an example of a statute barred defence here if you need it (I would be using it myself if I were in your shoes) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?162456

 

 

 

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (date).

 

2 The Claimant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980. If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

 

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

 

I BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE.

 

Signed:

 

Dated:

[burmafriday]

Hi All

thank you so much for your help and messages over the last few days - sorry i was missing. My son was taken into hospital and was quite critical.

I'll go through the documentation and answer evertyhing tmrw as i just got back. thanks so much again. B/F

[burmafriday]

Hi All,

thank you again for all you help and support.

i went through the details last night and i am now able to clarify the situation. Forgive me for not mixing up my terminology. Below is chronological account

1. Apprx 10/03/2010 Received Claim Form from Northampton County Court bulk centre

01 Mar 2010 was the issue date. So i did not receive a writ but a Claim Form

2. 13/03/2010 - I sent acknowledgement of service via Moneyclaim website

So i did not plead anything - i merely sent an acknowledgment.

3. 15/03/2010 - I then asked for further and better particulars - which I did not receive.

4. Nothing then happened for a while

5. I think sometime in November 2010 – I rang and spoke with one of the partners regarding this case to basically told him that I could not deal with this matter as I was quite ill and had a breakdown in June 2010.

6. In Feb 2011, an email was sent to one of the partners as we had not heard anything about the case, asking for the latest situation. I received a notification from my local Country Court that a hearing date was then set for a day in Feb 2011 but this was adjourned.

subject to a further date to be set after April – but so far no date has been set.

7. I then received an email with the documentation and invoices I had been waiting for.

8. At that point, I was in a particularly bad mental and physical state (I had a breakdown due to severe stress) and I phoned one of the partners and asked what I had to do so thye’d just leave me alone. I explained that I had not worked for many months and had no income. He suggested I pay them X amount a month and without admitting liability – I said I would and sent him an email. Then he came back and said he wanted me to admit liability and put a charge on my house at which point I said that I will go through his documentation and get back to him.

9. In his documents, the invoice was dated April 2004.

10. He stated that I made a part payment in 2007 and I asked him to send me copies of my letters relating to that payment and to further clarify his bills.

(But I now remember the payment I made – it was over lunch – the payment was made on full and final basis.)

But as the Claim was made in March 2010 - and his invoice was Apr 2004, this means its within the 6 year period.

i did not admit liability at any time but thats irrelevant now.

so i think i am in a pretty weak position.

At least the situation has been clairified. what would you think the next steps should be?

BF

[burmafriday]

Hi

Any thoughts or comments?

BF

[Jasper1965]

2. 13/03/2010 - I sent acknowledgement of service via Moneyclaim website

So i did not plead anything - i merely sent an acknowledgment.

3. 15/03/2010 - I then asked for further and better particulars - which I did not receive.

 

Have you ever entered a defence?

How did you ask for further and better POC's, directly or via the Court and if via the Court was an order made?

[burmafriday]

Hi Jasper,

Thanks for coming back to me.

 

No, i never entered a defence

I asked for further and better particulars directly to Claimants solicitors.

 

Their last invoice was dated 2004 but they claimed to have sent me an email reminder in 2005 which i have

no recollection of receiving.

 

All the best/BF