GE Money/IGroup Mortgage Arrears Refund!

[bustthematrix]

Hello All

 

A few weeks ago, I encountered these quite uplifting articles:-

 

http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/mortgages/236498/5/Industry_in_depth/Thousands_of_homeowners_set_for_big_mortgage_refunds.htm

 

and

http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/ccstory/236507/5/FSA_to_protect_those_in_arrears.htm

 

It appears it's done and dusted and the lenders aren't arguing the point.

 

I'd had a mortgage with Ge Money/IGroup from March 03 to March 07 - four years in all. For much of three of those four years, I was in arrears even though I was making payments but obviously not enough to clear off all the old arrears etc. I knew I had incurred all sorts of charges and interest in that time and so I proceeded to draft a simple letter to IGroup asking them to consider refunding all of these charges. I calculated them to be in the region of £4,000. I printed off a copy of these articles and enclosed them with my letter.

 

I got a response back in about 8 days stating they would look into it and revert within 4 weeks. Well, they've surprisingly done that and shocked me by agreeing to refund some of the money. They've promised less than 25% of the £4000 odd owed if I sign on the dotted line to accept it blah blah blah.

 

Thing is, I know the charges far exceed this figure and I also know they are not repaying the interest that was added on and paid by me FOR those additional charges which they are now repaying.

 

Does anyone have any useful experience on how to handle this type of claim negotiation? If they mess me around, would I be in a position to threaten court action? Will the courts honour claims of this nature, especially now the FSA has weighed in usefully with this guidance?

 

I'd prefer not to go to court unless they start messing around but I want to be clear on what pressure I can bring to bear to help them 'do the right thing'! i.e. give me back the money they shouldn't have taken in the first place and ALSO all the additional interest and other fees that may have been triggered BECAUSE of those unlawful arrears charges in the first place.

Edited March 3, 2010 by bustthematrix
Grammar, clarity

[bustthematrix]

Hello All

 

Anybody here with some experience who can help with this? I'm sure there are many of us who have suffered similiar treatment. Putting together some clear arguments can really help everyone concerned.

 

Btw, if this has already been addressed elsewhere can someone please let me know? Many thanks.

[bustthematrix]

Looking through my mortgage statement, the list of various itemised charges which were added on over the four years of the mortgage are categorized as follows:

 

1. Direct Debit Recall Charge

2. Litigation Referall fee

3. Miscellaneous Repossession Charge

4. Arrears Administration Charge

5. Solicitor Interim legal fees

6. Default Notice Charge

7. Valuation fee

 

All of ther above fees and charges were added to the mortgage at various points and for various amounts over the 4 year period.

 

Question is, specifically which of the above is reclaimable and why? At no time did they write to me to explain or justify any of these fees or charges. They've simply assumed I understood and consented to the charges. Of course, I have never formally protested them until now, though I do recall saying to their staff they were exhorbitant by phone a few times back then.

 

The FSA's recent ruling as I mentioned above has emboldened me to revisit the matter of these unfair mortgage charges.

 

I'd really appreciate input from anyone that can add clarity as time is of the essence and I'm quite certain it will help a lot of people!

[straftat]

I will be taking similar action to yourself soon

 

what I plan to do if they offer me less is to write back to them quoting those recent articles from the FSA/OFT and insist on a full refund and ask for a copy of their complaints proceedure

 

then I'd guess finaly a letter before action

 

 

If anyone else is further along on this please help

[bustthematrix]

Go for it mon ami:)

 

I will be asking GE to clarify each of their charges as listed on my mortgage statement.

 

I will also be asking them to itemise the charges they've agreed to refund and why and to itemise the ones they are not refunding and explain why...

 

The refund they've offered is about 25% of what I calculated I am due.

[straftat]

I called them up and asked them to send me a statement of the charges and they did , which is handy for me , now just got to work out the interest on the charges that they have been taking

[bustthematrix]

...yes I believe so, both the charges themselves AND the interest they added on BECAUSE of those charges!!! Be warned also, that the charges and the interest added on due to the charges COMPOUNDS against you.

[waronwant]

Hi, I've taken action against GMAC for a refund of arrears charges, and I'm pretty far along now - just waiting for the FOS to get back in touch with their suggested amount. I started by writing to GMAC twice, and receiving no response. Then sent a complaint to FOS, they wrote to GMAC giving them 8 weeks to comply with my request for statements. GMAC still didn't respond to the FOS, so I contacted FOS again, they chased it up, then GMAC got in touch to offer me a "good will payment" of £550. (The slime who made the call said "don't know if you're aware that the FOS can take months, whereas we could have a nice cheque out to you just in time for Christmas!").

 

I'd calculated the charges at roughly £2400, not including interest added, non payment by DD, or home visits (I only ever had one, but they've charged for 3), or solicitors costs (Sols charge is around £39 but GMAC charge £100 - another little bit of profiteering from peoples misery), so there was no way I was willing to blindly accept such a small amount, so the FOS started to investigate.

 

I spoke to the case officer around 3 1/2 weeks ago, and at that time I asked if the arrears charges were illegal/unfair due to the fact that they did not reflect admin charges. He refused to answer, saying he had yet to decide on the fairness of the charges. That's left me a bit confused, as according to the FSA the case IS that charges which do not reflect admin costs ARE unfair. Reports by the various bodies seem to conflict with each other as well. The case officer advised when I spoke to him that he was waiting for disclosure of costs from GMAC, so it's just a waiting game now, basically.

 

If the FOS come back saying they think I'm only entitled to £500 or the like, I will be taking it further, but OMG it's frustrating!

[vodka]

...yes I believe so, both the charges themselves AND the interest they added on BECAUSE of those charges!!! Be warned also, that the charges and the interest added on due to the charges COMPOUNDS against you.

Hi I am new here although I have been hanging around for ages just looking. I have several issues with ge money although at the moment I am going to try and get mortgage arrears charges back, they amount to nearly £9,000 including the interest they have added on. These charges are shown as a total on their statements, do you know if I can use these figures or does evey charge have to be itemised. Also how do you go about the 8% interest.

What did you mean about the interest charges compounds against us. (sorry can be a bit thick at times)

Thanks for any help or advice.

[bustthematrix]

Hi Vodka, don't worry about being thick, we all suffer from it to some degree.

 

I'm not sure if every charge has to be itemised but for my own completeness and so that I can honestly challenge indescrepancies, I would itemise each charge I am claiming back in a spreadhseet and try and peg something on for the interest I calculate I've paid for that charge being added. I would use the mortgage account interest rate as that is how they calculate the interest they charged.

 

Ask them to fully breakdown their 'total' arrears figure, item by item and seperate an interest item from a principal item.

 

The 8% is Statutory Interest and is seperate from the above and is in fact, additional to the above. Do some searches on this Forum as there are a few good threads on it. You are legally entitled to it for debts that are owed to you and are overdue.

 

Regarding compounding, it's a very powerful thing when it works for you, but very costly when it works against you. It encompasses the cumulative effect of how most things accumulate over time.

 

In the mortgage scenario, let's say you were charged £40 in January of 2008, but nothing else for the rest of the year and it was added to your mortgage account balance of say £100,000. That £40 would then attract interest of (for arguments sake) £1 pcm. In Feb of 08 your balance will rise to £100,041 (ignoring monthly payments and new charges etc). Commencing March, the balance would not only rise by that original £1, it would rise by say £1.05 because interest is now being charged on £41 and not just £40. At the start of April your balance would be £100,042.05. April's interest on the Original £40 (which is now £42.05) might be £1.11 bringing the new balance to £100,043.16 and so on. And it will keep compounding in like fashion until the arrears are finally repaid. This causes the debt to grow that much faster!

 

Bottom line, if the charges are refundable, then so of course is all the interest that you paid on them - unless the lender wants to deny charging you interest on these sums which one should definitely ask them to prove they didn't.

Edited March 9, 2010 by bustthematrix

[katylegs11]

I'm in the same position going to get as much advice as possible GE have charges me over £1000 in one year (i think) for charges... i have called them to night asking if they can extend my mortgage over more years helping to reduce my outgoings which are extensive as a single parent for many years tryin to do it all on my own , is just about impossible. Ge have not helped otr surgested any thing as yet..i'm going to the citizens advice soon..really difficult though when you work full time.

Also, does anyone know as when i took my mortgae out with them 3 years ago i borrowed extra to pay off a debt some was to pay off a debtof £10,000..only to find out later they had not paid it (i would of thought that would of had some responsibilty to make sure this debt was paid for me??!! ended up having to get another loan to apy it off : (

other than this i shall keep you posted to my actions acgainst GE for their charges.

[vodka]

Hi Vodka, don't worry about being thick, we all suffer from it to some degree.

 

I'm not sure if every charge has to be itemised but for my own completeness and so that I can honestly challenge indescrepancies, I would itemise each charge I am claiming back in a spreadhseet and try and peg something on for the interest I calculate I've paid for that charge being added. I would use the mortgage account interest rate as that is how they calculate the interest they charged.

 

Ask them to fully breakdown their 'total' arrears figure, item by item and seperate an interest item from a principal item.

 

The 8% is Statutory Interest and is seperate from the above and is in fact, additional to the above. Do some searches on this Forum as there are a few good threads on it. You are legally entitled to it for debts that are owed to you and are overdue.

 

Regarding compounding, it's a very powerful thing when it works for you, but very costly when it works against you. It encompasses the cumulative effect of how most things accumulate over time.

 

In the mortgage scenario, let's say you were charged £40 in January of 2008, but nothing else for the rest of the year and it was added to your mortgage account balance of say £100,000. That £40 would then attract interest of (for arguments sake) £1 pcm. In Feb of 08 your balance will rise to £100,041 (ignoring monthly payments and new charges etc). Commencing March, the balance would not only rise by that original £1, it would rise by say £1.05 because interest is now being charged on £41 and not just £40. At the start of April your balance would be £100,042.05. April's interest on the Original £40 (which is now £42.05) might be £1.11 bringing the new balance to £100,043.16 and so on. And it will keep compounding in like fashion until the arrears are finally repaid. This causes the debt to grow that much faster!

 

Bottom line, if the charges are refundable, then so of course is all the interest that you paid on them - unless the lender wants to deny charging you interest on these sums which one should definitely ask them to prove they didn't.

 

Thank you for getting back to me, I have searched through my paper work but cant come up with the figures that match what is owed so I will phone them to ask for a breakdown of all the charges like you have suggested. Will they class that as a SARS and charge me. I have just looked at my last statement and they havent charged me the £40 in January perhaps with all thats going on they have finally realised its time they stopped. There is one thing that worries me about doing this and that is if they get really nasty and recall the loan, where would I stand then.

[vodka]

I'm in the same position going to get as much advice as possible GE have charges me over £1000 in one year (i think) for charges... i have called them to night asking if they can extend my mortgage over more years helping to reduce my outgoings which are extensive as a single parent for many years tryin to do it all on my own , is just about impossible. Ge have not helped otr surgested any thing as yet..i'm going to the citizens advice soon..really difficult though when you work full time.

Also, does anyone know as when i took my mortgae out with them 3 years ago i borrowed extra to pay off a debt some was to pay off a debtof £10,000..only to find out later they had not paid it (i would of thought that would of had some responsibilty to make sure this debt was paid for me??!! ended up having to get another loan to apy it off : (

other than this i shall keep you posted to my actions acgainst GE for their charges.

I dont know much about extending the term, but if you are paying off arrears you can pay that over a longer time, they usually push fot 2 - 3 years but if you read up on it, you can pay arrears of over the length of the mortgage, they really dont like this and get very snotty. As for the loan that should have been paid, when I have taken out a big loan to pay off smaller ones sometimes the company will leave it up to you to pay and others will pay direct, I think the best thing you can do is ask them for all the info thay have. This is called A SARS and you have to send a £10 fee. If you look on here you can find much more information about it. Although I have been looking on here for ages I am still very new to actually doing anything, so double check everything to make sure its right.

Good Luck

[katylegs11]

Thany you for that i will look into it

called ge today but they did not offer any help pssing me to the hardship team and they will be in contact---will chase all the information you have given me and also try and vlaim their charges back

[bustthematrix]

Folks, there's some really good related information regarding claiming mortgage related charges here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/19501-zoot-halifax-mortgages.html

 

You'll get to see a lot about the legal arguments for WHY you can claim most if not all of these charges back!

[bustthematrix]

There is one thing that worries me about doing this and that is if they get really nasty and recall the loan, where would I stand then.

I very much doubt they'd do anything like that! They have to follow the pre-action protocol etc and comply with the FSA's Treating Customer's Fairly directive.

 

Also, you'll find they make far more money and get far better press by keeping you as a paying customer over the longer term!

[vodka]

Folks, there's some really good related information regarding claiming mortgage related charges here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/19501-zoot-halifax-mortgages.html

 

You'll get to see a lot about the legal arguments for WHY you can claim most if not all of these charges back!

That was very interesting I have only had a quick look cause I dont want to get my hopes up, I have spent the last four years trying to claim back an early settlement charge (is that the same thing) I had a mortgage with Igroup and asked for a further advance they sent someone out who I thought was from Igroup, the papaerwork was for a re-mortgage I signed cause being naive thought they were doing the best for us. (This is a very long story) but anyway I was charged £4,830.60 for this early settlement which was added on to the new mortgage with the same company and the original mortgage was not a discounted one or capped. I have been to FOS but its out of their jurisdiction and the FSCS said the same. There is a lot more including broker fees for a broker that didint have any work to do and a one of PPI payment for life insurance that was not required, this insurance was only for five years. All these fees seem to be added on my mortgage attracting interest. I think my whole mortgage was missold because I never realised that I had dealt with a broker I thought it was someone from Igroup. I made a complaint to Igroup(now GEmoney) and was told it was nothing to do with them and to contact the broker, who has conveniently stopped trading or so I am told.

I am always getting my hopes up on this because to me the whole thing seemed wrong but I never get anywhere, I did have a claims firm supposed to be working on it, they have had three years and not got anywhere. Sorry to go on, but I would appreciate any help or advice,

thank you

[bustthematrix]

Hi Vodka

 

I feel for you and from what you've outlined, you've definitely been through a rough time at the hands of these banditos. In my humbe opinion, you have multiple angles for claims.

 

Why not start your own thread towards this where you can get specific help towards each aspect of the claims you may want to pursue? This would serve you better.

 

For example, as you've been in Arrears and been charged by GE Money, you now know you can get something back for this. You'll also know from reading Zootscoot's work that there is scope for claiming back Early Repayment Charges which have already been paid.

 

The Misselling of PPI is another claim angle for you and there is much written about claiming this back and how to do it across this Forum.

 

Then there is the potential claim for misselling of the entire mortgage based on non-disclosure of commissions and even the nature of the procedure and the charges involved etc is clearly grounds for a general misselling claim.

 

If you start your own thread, try and document exactly what's happened as best you can. Try and itemise where you think you may have been treated unjustly. You'll find that there'll be many who come alongside to help you out - I for one will!

 

All the best!

Edited March 11, 2010 by bustthematrix

[vodka]

Hi Vodka

 

I feel for you and from what you've outlined, you've definitely been through a rough time at the hands of these banditos. In my humbe opinion, you have multiple angles for claims.

 

Why not start your own thread towards this where you can get specific help towards each aspect of the claims you may want to pursue? This would serve you better.

 

For example, as you've been in Arrears and been charged by GE Money, you now know you can get something back for this. You'll also know from reading Zootscoot's work that there is scope for claiming back Early Repayment Charges which have already been paid.

 

The Misselling of PPI is another claim angle for you and there is much written about claiming this back and how to do it across this Forum.

 

Then there is the potential claim for misselling of the entire mortgage based on non-disclosure of commissions and even the nature of the procedure and the charges involved etc is clearly grounds for a general misselling claim.

 

If you start your own thread, try and document exactly what's happened as best you can. Try and itemise where you think you may have been treated unjustly. You'll find that there'll be many who come alongside to help you out - I for one will!

 

All the best!

Thank you for the advice, I will look into it over the weekend as I am at work tomorrow, I havent much time left as the six years are up in May. I will be back in touch soon, if that is ok.

[bustthematrix]

More good news on mortgage arrears charges. This time it's Kensington.

 

Seems to me the PTBs are coming down more and more on the side of the consumer.

 

Print News

 

It will be harder and harder for lenders to argue against this line of reasoning.

[bustthematrix]

...and yet more good news for the fleeced unwary. Of course it's a pittance in comparison to what they get away with but it's a start...

 

This time it's Redstone Mortgages.

 

FSA fines Redstone Mortgages Limited - Industry in depth - Mortgage Introducer UK

 

15 July, 2010

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) has today fined Redstone Mortgages Limited (Redstone) £630,000 for poor treatment of some customers facing mortgage arrears.

The firm has agreed to redress customers who were charged unfair and/or excessive charges while they were in arrears. It is estimated that the redress will cost the firm up to £500,000.

The FSA has identified a number of serious failings by Redstone which occurred between 1 January 2007 and 5 August 2009 in relation to its mortgage arrears handling processes and in its dealings with customers in arrears.

These include:

Failing to ensure mortgage servicing staff acting on its behalf had adequate understanding of treating mortgage arrears customers fairly;

Focusing on reducing arrears to less than two months, regardless of the customer’s personal and financial circumstances;

Having written policies that led, in some cases, to the unnecessary use of litigation to secure arrangements to pay;

Sending repetitive, excessive and confusing correspondence; and

Applying four charges to customers’ accounts that were unfair and/or excessive.

[maybelline]

Hi Vodka, don't worry about being thick, we all suffer from it to some degree.

 

I'm not sure if every charge has to be itemised but for my own completeness and so that I can honestly challenge indescrepancies, I would itemise each charge I am claiming back in a spreadhseet and try and peg something on for the interest I calculate I've paid for that charge being added. I would use the mortgage account interest rate as that is how they calculate the interest they charged.

 

Ask them to fully breakdown their 'total' arrears figure, item by item and seperate an interest item from a principal item.

 

The 8% is Statutory Interest and is seperate from the above and is in fact, additional to the above. Do some searches on this Forum as there are a few good threads on it. You are legally entitled to it for debts that are owed to you and are overdue.

 

Regarding compounding, it's a very powerful thing when it works for you, but very costly when it works against you. It encompasses the cumulative effect of how most things accumulate over time.

 

In the mortgage scenario, let's say you were charged £40 in January of 2008, but nothing else for the rest of the year and it was added to your mortgage account balance of say £100,000. That £40 would then attract interest of (for arguments sake) £1 pcm. In Feb of 08 your balance will rise to £100,041 (ignoring monthly payments and new charges etc). Commencing March, the balance would not only rise by that original £1, it would rise by say £1.05 because interest is now being charged on £41 and not just £40. At the start of April your balance would be £100,042.05. April's interest on the Original £40 (which is now £42.05) might be £1.11 bringing the new balance to £100,043.16 and so on. And it will keep compounding in like fashion until the arrears are finally repaid. This causes the debt to grow that much faster!

 

Bottom line, if the charges are refundable, then so of course is all the interest that you paid on them - unless the lender wants to deny charging you interest on these sums which one should definitely ask them to prove they didn't.

 

hiya, that is very useful re the interest calculations as i have been asking Ge/I Group to explain their charging system to me for several years!! still no reply. usual blurb leaflet and threats of repossession in their response. oh and preparing their own statements for the court that dont show ANY interest anywhere???

[lippylou8]

we had a mortgage with this company in 2005. we fell into 3 months arrears cos my husband was made redundant and they said we could not claim on our PPI. our property was sold within that time and and paid off in full but when the final payment was cleared they took an extra 16,000 pounds arrears fees and court fees but it didnt even get to court !!! i would like to know if there is any thing i can do about this.. my husband and i ended up in more debt when we should have had nearly 10,000 pounds left over