Bailifs and debt collectors for council tax

[mumof9]

Hi I was just wondering how to advise my niece , she is a single parent who has only just received information from a debt collector telling her she was in arrears with her council tax, this is the first she knew( she knew she hadn’t paid ) she hasn’t had any court letters nothing, she phoned the council they said it had been passed on and wouldn’t talk about an arrangement so she rang the debt collectors up the same day she received her letter they said to write down all her income and expenditure and send it to them so she took down the address, a couple of days later the bailiffs were knocking on her door they said she failed to send in the paperwork on time, she told the bailiff she wasn’t given any time scale they told her it doesn’t matter she failed they have given her a few days to come up with £400 or they will take her goods, what can she do she’s really scared her daughter is only 6 months old my niece has only just returned to work from maternity leave her debt is £1000 thanks!

[selinajayne]

do you know if she let them in the house

[mumof9]

I think she did, not too sure

[selinajayne]

first thing with bailiffs is not not let them in. if she has let them in then they do have the right to make a levy of goods.

call the national debt helpline they are really helpful

[ploddertom]

First step is to find out exactly how much is owed - this can be done by ringing the Council and asking how much the Liability Order was for and how much is still outstanding - she should also request which address everything has been sent to. One thing that seems to stick out is the not having had any prior notification of any intended action by the Council or that they now have a Liability Order. Is the house rented - if so she needs to contact Landlord/Letting Agent and ask if they have had the post.

 

She should also notify the Council she is a single parent with a young child. Does she claim any Benefits and if so what? It may be that she is classed as vulnerable but I know someone else will clarify this. If this is the case then there is the possibility the account can be handed back to the Council.

 

If the Bailiff has been in her home then I imagine he has done a levy on some of her effects. I would urge you to find out and post details of what they are on here as a lot of the time they do list exempt goods.

 

Next steps depend on answers to above.

 

PT

[mumof9]

The bailiff dindn't make a list of goods just said she would if my niece didn't pay the £400 when she comes back, the debt she owes is £1000 the council have her phone number and never called her at any stage and I know they have others who have fell into arrears, as for benefits she is in reciept of working and child tax credits and she is trying to get help with her rent and council tax, we only have a couple of days left before the bailif returns, can she refuse them entry

[RaeUK]

Hi mumof9,

I would suggest your niece would indeed be classed as vulnerable given she is a single mum and her daughter is so young.

The National Standards for Enforcement Agents state :

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

As well as any other advice she receives, it would do no harm to write to the Head of Revenues at the council. Informing him/her that she believes she is within the vulnerable category of the NS for EA, giving her reasons why. The standards are not law, however, it is the standard councils and bailiffs should be working too. Unfortunately they sometimes forget.

They are there to alleviate the additional stress and worry that these situations can cause. As well as to give an opportunity to pay the debt in an affordable and sustainable manner.

 

Best wishes

Rae.

[RaeUK]

In that case your niece needs to email as well as write to the council. Copy of email and letter should also go to the bailiffs.

The bailiffs can only try to make peacefull entry. She does not have to let them in and it would be prudent not too.

Best wishes

Rae.

[selinajayne]

i had the bailiffs round for the same thing. i refused them entry and emailed my local councillor who got the council to take back the debt and made a payment plan with them. when the baillif comes back refuse all entry regardless of what they say and state shes a lone parent

[RaeUK]

selinajayne makes a good point regarding your local councillor. Although I tend to suggest writing and emailing the council / bailiffs first. That way, should you receive negative responses you have good grounds to escalate formal complaints and involve your councillor and MP.

Best wishes

Rae.

[mumof9]

Sorry just to be sure my niece needs to inform the council and the bailiffs that she's vulnerable and her reason why

[selinajayne]

yep think so

[RaeUK]

hi mumof9.

Yes, in short. It's the first step. Some councils will take action to bring the case back others don't until pushed a little. That is why I emphasised your nieces very young daughter. If you or your niece want help with a letter let us know. There are templates about or you can post your own and it can be checked or I'll provide one of mine. I suggest the emails are sent asap, preferably tonight. The letters tomorrow by signed for. [Or hand deliver and get a receipt if the offices are close by]

Best wishes

Rae.

Edited February 24, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[mumof9]

If you could give us a template it would be much appreciated, as for the emails going tonight my niece is working nights to try and get the money she's that scared

[RaeUK]

Ok, give me a tick. Please tell your niece not to worry so much, this will only transfer to her daughter.

Best wishes.

Rae.

[mumof9]

Thank you

[RaeUK]

Try this one, let me know if I have missed anything...

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

Reference number: XXX

 

I am writing with regard to the above account relating to a Liability Order issued by your Council.

It would appear, from advice that I have received, my circumstances are classed as 'vulnerable' according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. The reason for this is because I am a single parent. As you are aware, this adds additional strain to my personal and financial situation. Particularly as I have a very young daughter of 6 months.

 

As the current situation is also having an aggravated and detrimental affect on my emotional health - and it is of concern that my young child will pick up on this – I request that this account be taken back by the Council.

I wish to make it clear that I am not refusing to pay my account but I cannot afford to pay the entire amount of the Liability Order at this present time. I would, however, like to arrange payments which are affordable and sustainable. As such I will complete and forward – by separate cover – an income / expenditure form.

 

I would be grateful if you would please confirm safe receipt of this letter.

 

A copy of this letter has also been sent to XXX Bailiffs for their information.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

[Obviously, if anyone else can add anything feel free].

 

I would suggest when sending a copy to the bailiff, enclose a brief covering letter including: Could you also note that, due to my daughters very young age, I cannot possibly allow a bailiff to have peaceful entry into my home.

Edited February 24, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[comebackjimmy]

Hi

 

I had trouble with council tax this year. I got a lot of advice off this site and applied it and it paid off.

 

To start with though we are obliged to pay our council tax we are under no legal obligation to deal with the bailiff. What should happen is that they will make a maximum of two visits, and can legally charge for the two visits. If your niece refuses to let them in they have not got peaceable entry and in theory should go away and return the account to the council who will then consider it for alternative action.

 

Therefore my strategy would be:

 

1. Send the letter I have put together below (I cobbled it from my original letter and added the excellent bit from Kelcou above and acknowledge her copyright!!).

 

2. Pay the first installment of the plan on-line and continue to pay the plan.

 

3. On Friday refuse to let the bailiff in WHATEVER they say and give them a copy of the letter. (If there was any way to get your niece some company that day all the better).

 

Also, if the Bailiff turns up the very first thing to do is ask for ID (Through the letter box). If your niece has a scanner then copy the ID. (Have the PC switched on and ready). Failing a scanner then a digital camera set to highest resolution. Take three or four pictures from different angles to ensure the ID does not reflect the flash back to the lens and obscure the print).

 

Also, if possible get one or more pictures of the bailiff to see if his face matches the ID.

 

The reason for all this is that sometimes the people doing the collecting are not Certified Bailiffs but just assistants. If they are not certified they have no more right to collect the tax than the dustman and less right to be on the property.

 

By getting the ID it is possible to punch it into the MOJ website and see if the guy is registered. If not then no fees and a complaint to the council ombudsman naturally follows.

 

This is naturally very nerve wracking but be of good cheer and be strong.

 

I suggest you prepare things along the lines I have described but also wait a while to see what other CAGers post, in case I have committed some terrible blunder in my post.

 

Good luck.

 

 

your name

your address

 

Date

 

Recoveries Department

your council

council address

 

Dear Sirs

 

REF: account number

On ….date....... I was visited by a Bailiff from your contracted firm ….................. demanding £400 at pain of having my goods seized.

 

Although I acknowledge that I must pay my council tax and an amount of …..xxxxxxx..... remains unpaid I have not received from your office a reminder, a summons for unpaid tax, or notification from any court, or yourselves that a court order has been obtained.

 

I am unable to produce £400 on demand and it is a pity your Bailiff was insistent upon this figure being taken.

 

Please not I am not refusing to pay the council tax. However, I am under no legal obligation to deal with your bailiff, only to pay the tax. It is my belief that the policy of the bailiff is designed only to make money for their own organisation in that they can immediately make a charge for a bailiff visit and on-going charges for walking possession.

 

I would further point out that The National Standards for Enforcement Agents states in part :

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

 

I am a newly single parent and would therefore expect this, or any other council to insist that its Bailiffs adhere to the standards.

 

It is entirely wrong that public body such as the council appears not to be controlling it's contractors in line with these standards.

 

My personal circumstances are as follows:

 

list them 1. to n.

 

I have worked out my personal finances and produced a payment plan attached below.

 

I therefore request that the council notes my repayment proposals.

 

I further wish you to note that I am not refusing to pay the Council Tax.

 

I request that you recover the account back from bailiff ..name.. and directly receive the payments yourselves.

 

Not withstanding my current delinquency I have been paying council tax on the same property and others for Approximately ...xx..... In the last ...x.. years I have experienced financial difficulties as a result of ….describe them. However, over this period I have, with difficulty paid my council taxes.

 

In the circumstances I believe my request is not unreasonable and ask for your assistance in this matter.

 

Yours Faithfully

name

2nd page is a payment plan

[RaeUK]

Any letters I write for this site are free for use by any cagger and can be used in full, in part, not at all!, adapted or amended as appropriate.

It should be noted that I am a humble writer and not legally trained...

Rae

Edited February 24, 2010 by RaeUK
typoo

[comebackjimmy]

thanks K. Credit where credit is due (oops unfortunate choice of words for this site!)

[mumof9]

Thank you Kelcou and comebackjimmy

[mumof9]

Hi, my neice sent the draft letter kelcou and comebackjimmy drafted the day after posting on here, she hasn't recieved a reply from the council yet, the bailiffs didn't turn up till yesterday then they only put papers through the door to say they had come to remove goods and next time whether she's in or not they will remove goodsunder some subsection of magistrates court (or something like that not having it infront of me), they won't make any further arangements and will come at their convenience, any suggestions what to do next ?, and by the way she didn't let them in the first time she kept them outside dispite them asking her to talk somewhere private.

[comebackjimmy]

Hi mumof9

 

It is good news that she did not let them in either the first time or the second time.

 

If I understand the situation correctly she has now had two visits from the bailiffs. Theoretically she should not get any more. If they cannot get payment on the account after two visits the tendency is to return the account to the council who will then try some alternative method.

 

CAUTION: This is something I have picked up on here and there is no guarantee the bailiff in this case would do that, but I would expect it.

 

Do you know if your niece sent the letter recorded delivery? If so can she confirm that the council received it?

 

Presuming she prepared a payment plan just a reminder to stick to it. By doing so it erodes the council's ability to take a hard line.

 

Also, has she got the name of the bailiff(s) that visited on both occasions?

 

Wait a while and see what other CAGers have to say.

[RaeUK]

Hi mumof9,

The bailiff cannot enter the premises at all unless he first gains peacefull entry. Keep the hatches battened down for now.

I think it's been about a fortnight or so by now. You should contact your local councillor and enlist his / her help. Explain the situation and that you have had no reply despite the urgency of the situation.

Email the bailiff company and ask for an update regarding the letter you sent them.

If you didn't send the letters by signed for I'd be inclined to resend them in this way, marking each letter 'duplicate'.

Sometimes things take a while. Most places aim to respond in 14 days or so...

Best wishes.

Rae.

 

[When I say 'you' I refer to your niece]

[Skankedbythebank]

Has it been established whether entry was made?

 

I can't see a definitive 'no' anywhere.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but, even if they have gained entry but have not levied / created an inventory then they can't break in can they?

 

I thought they could only force entry to recover the goods on the WP or inventory.