Curious twist on two CCA requests-they are taking me to Court!

[Laiste]

Hi Joncris,

 

I'll ring the Court tommorow and sort out HFC.

 

According to the Court staff at Northampton, if Egg don't respond to our defence, it automatically goes onto a stay...? Which to be honest, irrespective of the fact they have brought the case, we both think it is extremely unfair that the matter can be held in abeyance until the twelfth of never. Where's the justice in that? Is it me, or does court procedure seem to be weighted in favour of those who disregard or flout the rules? How many chances are the two Courts prepared to give these Companies? Granting time extensions of whatever duration is just basically wrong! We are not only fighting the c/c Companies, we are fighting the bl***y court machine as well! You feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall!

 

Laiste.

[JonCris]

Theres no such thing as an "automatic" stay. Tell them that as Egg are out of time & you will make an immediate application to have any such stay lifted together with a request for a default judgment.

 

Point out that any delay as they suggest prejudices your case & to hold a case over indefinitley is a clear breach of your Human Rights. Namely your right to a fair trial

 

I think a complaint needs to be written up & sent to the Lord Chancellors Dept. about what's going on in these county courts

[Laiste]

Hi,

 

Well here's the latest on the continuing saga with HFC! Had a long conversation with the most senior member of the Court staff yesterday about getting the case struck out. She said the papers were with the Judge and we will find out on Monday whether he agrees with us, or has decided to give them extra time. We have asked in the A/Q that the case be struck out, so the Judge knows our position.

 

I bought a book on Civil Procedure to clarify things as we have been getting such conflicting info from the Court staff. On a cursory glance it would seem Judges are willing to grant extra time to either party,(apparently to be fair to all concerned:confused: ), but there is alot to read, so I'm not sure what the definitive position is yet. The woman at the Court seemed to think that even if we make a formal application for it to be struck out, if the Judge has decided to give them extra time then our application will not alter the position! This just gets worse! To all intents and purposes the Court is assisting HFC with their case! I need to find something in the procedures to support our position.

 

The woman at the Court seems to think the Judge will give them extra time, which I couldn't believe! If ever there was a case that should be thrown out, this is it! I have explained in the A/Q about everything that HFC have done, including not providing the agreement and statement of account, we are still waiting for that infomation! They have committed a criminal offence, not an insignificant matter by any means! The fact that no default notice has ever been received and that they are also out of time as far as the A/Q is concerned! I also added that we haven't made a counter claim thus far as there is no proof that the agreement exists and even if it does, the fact that we have not been furnished with the details means we cannot calculate the penalty charges! Surely any Judge can see that they are abusing the Court process given all that they have done?

 

And the bad news keeps on coming...! Got a letter from HFC's solicitors this morning, with a copy of their A/Q enclosed! Scant details in the form, except they think the fast track is suitable for the case. They believe the trial will last 3hrs and their total legal costs will amount to £2500! I was furious when I saw the form!

 

So depending on what the Judge decides, we can formally request the strike out and if that fails, submit a counter claim with the words penalty charges all over it! Also, I'm thinking of doing a DSAR as these ba****ds on many occasions telephoned upto 8 times a day, even though they were told to put everything in writing. So we can make harassment part of the claim. I will ask for details of all telephone calls made to our number and the notes on the memo lines. Both myself and my husband had very heated exchanges with these cretins many times. My husband is off work on long term sick leave with stress and depression, which they made infinitely worse by their actions. We are going to have to move quickly when we find out on Monday because the Judge if he decides to go ahead, having got their A/Q, will be looking to set a trial date.

 

God I hate HFC with a passion! Any thoughts on the latest turn of events, as always greatly appreciated!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste. Not feeling very cheery at the moment!

[david.m]

They believe the trial will last 3hrs and their total legal costs will amount to £2500!

i wonder how they cost that figure?, perhaps we could also use this tack in some way to make them or their clients re-evaluate.

 

imjust wondering if theres any judge reading these posts and might like to give their view?, or one of the blogs dotted around.

[Laiste]

Hi David,

 

I am certainly wondering how they have arrived at that figure! I think if this gets to Court we should be able to claim a similar amount in costs, after all we will have to prepare our case! As laypeople, it is obviously going to take us longer, so strictly speaking we should charge more for costs!

 

I think the only thing that is going to make them re-evaluate, is the prospect of having the penalty charges money making [problem] finally exposed in Court! What are the chances of them disclosing the details of how penalty charges are calculated and bringing a multi million pound earner to an end for the sake of a personal debt of just over 11 grand? Non existent, I think! By the way, this figure includes the penalty charges, and because they haven't supplied the paperwork we don't know what the "actual" amount is! My blood boils every time I think about this, in fact it's hard to think about anything else! I'm at that point where I want revenge with knobs on now!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[JonCris]

As I have stated on a number of occasions the court. Can GIVE EXTRA time but it should NOT be given unilaterally but on request.

Your supporting argument is that as a layperson you understood the court practice rules (CPR) as set out in the guidelines are there to ensure both a fair hearing as well as a level playingfield for the litigants.

Therefore if layperson litigant with no resources can adhere to them then surely a huge organisation such as HFC should be required to do the same & if they don't does the court not think that, as there would be if they had failed to comply, there should sanctions applied by the court, namely a striking out of their case. That anything less is an abuse of the system meant to be "access to justice" for the consumer/victim

[JonCris]

i wonder how they cost that figure?, perhaps we could also use this tack in some way to make them or their clients re-evaluate.

 

imjust wondering if theres any judge reading these posts and might like to give their view?, or one of the blogs dotted around.

 

Please believe me when I say it wasn't costed it was plucked from mid air & set just high enough to worry the opposing consumer

[Laiste]

Hi Joncris,

 

I agree with all the points you have made, they should not be entitled to any time extensions whatsoever! We have not agreed to this and it goes against fairness and justice. There was no word from the Court today as to whether the Judge has "decided" to give them extra time. It's irrelevant because we are going to make a formal application for the case to be struck. If the Judge rejects this, we'll have to appeal to the High Court. I am going to make it as difficult as possible for these ba****ds to pursue this. I don't see why their behaviour should not be admonished, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let the Court help them with their case!

 

I also think they have plucked the figure for the legal fees out of the air to try and intimidate us. Why else would they be sending us a copy of their allocation questionnaire?

 

On the matter of humpty dumpty (Egg), they are now officially out of time we found out today, as they have not responded to our defence. We have to submit a form which gives us judgment by default. So this will hopefully be more straightforward than the case with HFC!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[david.m]

If the Judge rejects this, we'll have to appeal to the High Court. I am going to make it as difficult as possible for these ba****ds to pursue this.

 

perhaps im getting it wrong, but if your allowed to appeal to the High Court, that would be 'a good thing' in the sence that you would then be in a position to out all the bad things the general populus are encountering every day with this stuff.

 

on the other hand it makes your case and your personal life a hell to have to go through this........

 

i assume the people here would find you the right people to help of course, and the full backing of the community etc, how else could we help you in this endevour?.

[Laiste]

Hi David,

 

Well going to the High Court is certainly an option, if the appication for a strike out is rejected. I am familiarising myself with Court procedure and looking for cases to support our application at County Court level. It is also worth bearing in mind that we haven't submitted a counter claim thus far, so HFC don't even know what arguments we are going to raise, unless the Judge has furnished them with details from our A/Q.

 

I could live without having to go to the High Court. Our life is quite complex at present, as my husband is in a legal dispute with his employers, which will end up in Court at some point soon. He is also suffering from stress and depression brought on by what his employers have done, so as you can see, things are far from simple! We will do what we have to, but it would be preferable if matters can be resolved to our satisfaction at County Court level!

 

It is wonderful the support that people are willing to provide here, which we really appreciate. You, Joncris and others have helped us a great deal. Also, by reading this thread I hope our experience will benefit others in the same situation. I know some people are perhaps not at the stage we are, but expect to be at some point and can take some positives from what we are going through, and learn from our mistakes also.

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[Laiste]

Hi,

 

Well Egg are now out of time as they didn't respond to our defence, so we are filing for the case to be struck out and judgment to be awarded in our favour.

 

We submit the paperwork to strike out HFC's case tommorow, so we'll have to see what the Judge decides on that matter. Lets hope he agrees with us!

 

Laiste.

[gargoil]

Hi Laste any update on this?

[Laiste]

Hi everyone,

 

Sorry there haven't been any updates, I've been ill!

 

Well, just when we thought Egg had disappeared, remember they hadn't responded to our defence and the case was put on a stay. We were in the process of putting the paperwork together to get it struck out, when the A/Q arrived for us to fill in as Egg had responded to our defence, unelievable! So they paid to have the stay taken off to proceed with the case! I'm trying to decide whether to apply for a strike out or simply file a counter claim.

 

On the HFC issue, we have submited papers to have the case struck out, I'm not confident about that, so when we know the outcome we'll know whether to file a counter claim or not, I have a feeling we will have to! Oh well, nobody said this was going to be easy! I am certainly learning alot about the court process, which will be useful if any of the other companies we have dealings with go down the same route!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[JonCris]

I suspect the court lifted the automatic stay on receipt of the very late defence. The court have acted disgracefuly in not granting you a summary default judgement.

 

I should let them know in no uncertain manner that when matters are concluded you intend to complain not only to the senior judge at that court but also the Lord Chancellors Dept including your MP.

 

Back to the matter in hand. What is Eggs response?

[Laiste]

Hello all,

 

Well things just go from bad to worse! I telephoned the County Court at Northampton today determined to get some answers about the situation with Egg. Asked why the stay had been removed. Was advised at that point, obviously before she had checked the facts, "Oh Egg must have paid for it to be removed." As I am thoroughly p***ed off with Court staff and their inability to give consistent advice, I was in no mood to take her suposition as an answer and what amounts to a fob off. Witheringly, I asked for details of exactly what had happened and what reason they had given to the Judge for the case to proceed. She put me on hold and eventually came back and advised me that Egg had submitted their documents in time and the stay was put on by mistake! Apparently, they are two weeks behind with processing paperwork, which had resulted in the case being put on a stay! I was furious but there is nothing I can do about it! So we are going to submit a counter claim and hopefully when they see penalty charges, they will run for the hills!

 

Still seething about HFC being given extra time, I asked the silly woman what the normal procedure is when a party fails to submit their A/Q in time. I thought it was a straightforward question but I had to repeat it three times! Her 1st response was we don't give legal advice. I am not asking for any, I replied, this is a Court procedure question. She went off again, came back and said I have the number for the CLS(community legal service)you can give them a ring. I asked her why she was giving me the number for people who can't afford legal advice, when I wanted a simple answer to a procedural question! She clearly thought this attempt at a fob off would work. She dithered and said she would put me through to a manager. God it was hard work!

 

The manager at 1st when I asked, who I make a complaint to about contravention of procedure, she said the Court I had the problem with. It was like pulling teeth trying to get info about escalating the issue. You could put this down to them being unsure if they don't get many complaints, but surely you have to be familiar with the complaints procedure, especially as a manager! My gut feeling is that there was real reluctance to give the info and I had to be really persistent, I was on ther phone for over 45 mins which is ridiculous! It should have taken 10 mins tops!

 

Anyway, the situation is this, if you have a complaint about procedures not being followed properly, in the 1st instance complain to the Court manager of the Court where you encountered the problem.

 

If you get nowhere with that, ring the Customer Service Unit on 0845 4568770.

 

Finally, if that yields no result the Ombudsman that looks into these issues, is the Parliamentary and Health Service body. The telephone number is 0845 0154033.

 

We are not only fighting the ccc's we are embroiled in battle with the Court staff as well, it hardly inspires faith in the system!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[Tinkerbelle]

Keep your chin up Laiste. I know it's frustrating.

 

You have lots of support here to help you through it.

 

As they say... no gain without pain..and they are certainly putting us all through it

[Laiste]

Hi Tinkerbelle,

 

Thank you for your kind words of support, I really appreciate it! I know there are lots of people here being put through no end of difficulty and stress by the banks and credit cards and probably by the Court staff as well, with their inconsistent and unhelpful advice! We all benefit from sharing our experiences (good and bad) and the information we gather along the way, much to the banks and cc's annoyance no doubt!

 

Best wishes,

 

Laiste.

[dayglo]

chin up

 

Good advice (smile)

[BrianT]

here is the Act verbatim

 

"If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence. "

 

interesting but it would be helpful if you cited the section as well as the subsection. Please also bear in mind that legislation does not stand alone it is amended by case law and Statutory Instuments, which are often not included unless the source you are using is the latest updated and annotated version. It is always important to take this into consideration, usually case law tends to clarify the provisions of an Act which is often in the claimants favour but not allways.

[ecobabe]

it's section 77

[Joa]

Laiste; please let us know wht's happening now!

[fagashlil]

Hi Laiste, hope you are not still poorly. Have just read your thread & wish you all the luck in the world with it.

 

LIL.

[Laiste]

Hi Lil,

 

Thank you for your kind words! I haven't posted for a while due to a close family member being ill, so I have been in a different part of the country. Everything has been chaotic, but that's life I guess!

 

Just to update, Egg have applied for and got a summary hearing scheduled for the 12th Dec, as they think our defence essentially does not absolve us of responsibility for the debt. We have since filed a counter-claim as long as your arm, so chances are they will withdraw from the hearing, I'll keep you posted.

 

With HFC, they now have our counter-claim, so we are waiting to see what happens. Amusingly, they sent a copy of the credit agreement and its illegible, so they can't enforce the debt as there is no proof what we have agreed!

 

I should be in a position now to keep you up to speed with the ongoing saga!

 

Kind regards,

 

Laiste.

[jamesbond]

good luck with this and hope all are well soon..

[fagashlil]

Hi Laiste, good to hear from you.

 

I am just about to begin the process myself and hope I don't encounter any of the problems that you and your husband have so far. However I know where to come if I do:)

 

With so much going on at the moment I can imagine it is hard to stay focused. As someone else has already said keep your chin up.

 

I have to say this is an amazing site and we are so lucky to be able to come here for information/ support and fight those institutions who have contributed to much worry and misery for people.

 

Take care. LIL