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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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5 Year Australian Debt being chased in the UK


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Yes they are chancing their arm.

 

Great. I guess I can expect one of these soon.

 

I have gone ahead and disputed the debt with the Australian Ombudsman, in the hope that by the time it gets to Steven Drake, I can answer the court here in the UK that the account is in dispute back in Australia. I doubt they'd agree to hear it under those circumstances.

 

Kinda fun making these cretins run around, chasing their tails...

 

W

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William. Credit Corp are a member of FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service) the online dispute form effectively puts the debt in dispute preventing Credit Corp from enforcing judgement in any court. FOS will contact you in the next week or two for further details of the dispute so start reading up. ASIC (www.asic.gov.au) are now the sole regulator for credit card debt. Before Credit Corp can seek judgement it must have done the correct procedure.

 

Your FOS dispute allows you to throw the kitchen sink at Credit Corp. Dispute jurisdiction, validity of the consumer credit agreement, write to Credit Corp for copies all information they hold on you then complain to FOS that it hasn't been provided, inform FOS that no letter of Assignment has ever been received (assignment is only effective from the date it is received by the debtor) this means that Credit Corp are not entitled to make a claim against you, inform FOS that no Section 80 letter has ever been received (which means Credit Corp can't take court action), and anything else you can think of.

 

Until your dispute is resolved Credit Corp will be unable to progress any case against you. Unless Credit Corp has followed the correct procedure all action will be stayed.

 

Be sure to download FOS Terms of Reference to see how Credit Corp will be bound.

 

The icing on the cake is that Credit Corp will have to pay FOS to investigate it.

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I'm confused ... how could the Australian DCA (via their shark lawyers in the UK) submit a Court Claim unless there has been a prior court judgement against the debtor in Australia? Did I miss something?

 

Or are they trying to bypass the Australian courts and go directly to the UK courts?

 

Now I'm getting worried again, as this DCA is the same group of bandits that are chasing ME!

 

W

 

The DCA are not trying to enforce an Australian Judgment they are trying to get a UK court to enforce a contract under Australian Law.

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Thanks, WA_Newman.

 

Sounds like fun.

 

And thank you for correcting my mis-understanding regarding the Court Claim. This will be an intersting one to watch ... I'm wondering if the UK court will entertain the case.

 

I will write to Credt Corp demanding they disclose all information held about me. I assume I reference the Freedom of Information Act? Is there a letter template somehwere I can refer to? (I've done a Google search, and haven't yet found anything)

 

W

Edited by William415
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Thanks for the letter i should send. Do i send it to Credit Corp in Australia or to Stevensdrake in Crawley?

 

You need to send it to the Solicitor named on the Claim form.

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?254561-Australian-Debt-being-chased-in-the-UK-court-papers-received

 

There would appear to be a few others in your situation. Do you know what the statute of limitations is on Aussie debts ?

 

For UK debts, if no acknowledgement or payment have been made to the account then although the debt still remains, there is no legal recourse for the creditor. The debt becomes statute barred.

 

Check out if there is a similar law in australia.

 

Ok ignore the above, cerb has already covered the questions I have asked above .:rolleyes:

Edited by citizenB

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Have you acknowledged the claim online ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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William,

 

There is no template as such. Just write to Credit Corp at their head office requesting all information it holds on you including, but not limited to, any contracts, any credit agreements, any statements, any correspondence, any personal data, any transcripts of telephone conversations, any assignments, any diary entries, any internal or external communication or notes, and any computerised data. It is your right under National Privacy Principle 6 of the Privacy Act.

 

National Privacy Principle 6 covers access by an individual to data held by an organisation.

 

6. Access and correction

 

6.1 If an organisation holds personal information about an individual, it must provide the individual with access to the information on request by the individual

 

Full information can be found at http://www.privacy.gov.au/materials/types/infosheets/view/6583#npp6

 

Have a read through all of the NNPs then email the Privacy Commissioner with details of all of the NPPs Credit Corp has breached. It is unlikely Credit Corp will provide you with the data you request, but the Privacy Commissioner usually gets the info. However, it can take months.

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William, don't forget to file a complaint with ASIC for breaches of their Debt Collectors Guidelines http://www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=733222&nodeId=701ac447ba70f932e4deaeb83d6e0239&fn=Debt%20collection%20guideline%20reprint%202010.pdf

 

Also, with the Privacy Commissioner for breaches of the NPP and Privacy Act.

 

No English court is going to touch a case brought under Australian Law that is cleary in dispute.

 

Credit Corp is a members of FOS and has agreed to be bound by FOS rules and decisions. FOS is one of only two ombudsman services recognised by ASIC, who issue credit licences. Any debt collector that loses its membership of both ombudsman services loses its credit licence: game over.

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With regard to Jurisdiction, it is possible that an Australian contract can be enforced in a UK court if the UK court is deemed to be the appropriate forum to hear the case. Given that the debtor is a UK resident, it could be argued that a UK court is the appropriate forum.

 

Regardless of Jurisdiction, any contract between an Australian financial institution and a (then) Australian resident, signed in Australia is subject to Australian Law.

 

A creditor would have to sue in a UK under Australian Law, which is not the easiest, or cheapest option.

 

As the alleged debt is covered under Australian Law, the creditor would need to be a member of an Australian financial ombudsman service (there are two: FOS and COSL).

 

Hi Newman,

 

I may have missed something in some of these posts, but bearing in mind that CC are not the Original Creditors but merely an agency, is there not also an issue of jurisdiction regarding an Australian DCA actively pursuing debts for a third party in the UK if they don't hold a UK Consumer Credit licence?

 

From reading the posts thus far, it seems as though CC are doing exactly what a UK DCA would be expected to do in similar circumstance, i.e. frequent communications with the "client" followed by threats of court action. The only difference being that a registered UK DCA would be entitled to carry out such actions whereas CC seems to be side-stepping such legal niceties by doing all this from overseas.

 

Fair enough if the OC was taking legal action in their own name or had assigned the debt to a UK agency (as in a reverse of the Pioneer scenario) but in this case that does not appear to have happened. Credit Corp are named as the claimant on the court papers.

 

I would also wonder if CC did have a UK licence, whether a debt first assigned to their Australian registered business could be re-assigned to the UK operation without falling foul of the cross-border data transfer legislation of the Australian Privacy Act. If the big banks can't transfer their clients' account information overseas, I'm sure that a piddly little DCA isn't allowed to do this either!

 

As a start, maybe someone can advise if Credit Corp has a licence to operate a debt collection business in the UK?

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Name & Registered Office:

CREDITCORP LIMITED

10 ORANGE STREET

LONDON

WC2H 7DQ

Company No. 05210186

 

The above is registered at Companies House but is not licenced by the FSA nor is there any other Credit Corp registered. In order to collect debts in the UK they need to be licenced with the FSA.

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Oh dear.

Is that the distant sound of police sirens?

 

I wonder what will be happening at Stevensdrake's offices when this hits the fan.

 

Presumably they must have known that their antipodean client did not hold a licence to ply their nefarious trade on England's green and pleasant lands? Or did they just turn a legally blind eye to such a minor detail?

Edited by ozzyboy
Afterthought!
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In the UK, debt collection agencies are licensed and regulated by the Office of Fair Trading. The OFT sets guidelines on how debt collection agencies can operate and lists examples of unfair practices. These guidelines are not law, but do represent a summary and interpretation of various legal areas. Compliance with these guidelines is also used as a test of whether the agency is considered fit to hold a credit license.

 

Examples of unfair practices include misrepresenting enforcement powers (e.g. claiming that property may be seized), falsely claiming to be acting in an official capacity, harassment, claiming unenforceable or excessive charges, misrepresenting the legal position to a debtor), and falsely claiming that a court judgement has been obtained when it has not. The legal basis for these practices comes from section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Collection agencies in the UK should not be confused with court-appointed bailiffs.

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Hi Newman,

 

I may have missed something in some of these posts, but bearing in mind that CC are not the Original Creditors but merely an agency, is there not also an issue of jurisdiction regarding an Australian DCA actively pursuing debts for a third party in the UK if they don't hold a UK Consumer Credit licence?

 

From reading the posts thus far, it seems as though CC are doing exactly what a UK DCA would be expected to do in similar circumstance, i.e. frequent communications with the "client" followed by threats of court action. The only difference being that a registered UK DCA would be entitled to carry out such actions whereas CC seems to be side-stepping such legal niceties by doing all this from overseas.

 

Fair enough if the OC was taking legal action in their own name or had assigned the debt to a UK agency (as in a reverse of the Pioneer scenario) but in this case that does not appear to have happened. Credit Corp are named as the claimant on the court papers.

 

I would also wonder if CC did have a UK licence, whether a debt first assigned to their Australian registered business could be re-assigned to the UK operation without falling foul of the cross-border data transfer legislation of the Australian Privacy Act. If the big banks can't transfer their clients' account information overseas, I'm sure that a piddly little DCA isn't allowed to do this either!

 

As a start, maybe someone can advise if Credit Corp has a licence to operate a debt collection business in the UK?

 

CreditCorp are not the original creditors. Before we can consider jurisdiction and entitlement to enforce a debt through the UK court system, we have to consider assignment.

 

In summary, if CreditCorp bought the debt from the OC then they effectively become the OC. Once the debtor receives a correct Notice of Assignment, the assignment becomes "absolute". Once the assignment is absolute, the assignee can commence proceedings to recover the debt through the courts providing it meets all of the other requirements of court action, and the requirements of the OC.

 

Assuming that CreditCorp has bought the debt and correctly delivered the Notice of Assignment, CreditCorp is now the original creditor. Now, assuming CreditCorp has provided all of the documentation to the debtor, and fulfilled all requirements under the the Australian UCCC and UK civil procedures it could sue the debtor and ask the appropriate County Court to enforce the debt under Australian Law.

 

Alternatively, if CreditCorp failed to deliver a correctly worded Notice of Assignment then the assignment would only be a beneficial assignment and CreditCorp would not be the OC. CreditCorp would be entitled to request leave of the court for the OC to join in the action against the debtor.

 

Check out my other posts for more details and case law on assignment.

 

Alternatively, a debtor could simply dispute the debt with Credit Corp then file a dispute with the Australian FOS who would bar CredirCorp from any further collection activity until the dispute had been resolved. The Australian UCCC is not as comprehensive as the CCA but is similar in that if a creditor fails at even one hurdle, the case fails. I have a lawyer friend who used to work on the dark side. Over 90% of cases where a debtor defended the action, it failed because of insufficient or incomplete paperwork.

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i would really like to see the letter how do i pm you?i am that desparate

Having gone through the thread I assume you are referring to the 'Prove It' letter, send them this; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

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