Your advice please

[Theodore T]

Good evening and a Happy New Year to you all.

A couple of days ago I received through the post a PCN with two nice photos of my car under the heading "Case Evidence Report"

The offence too place on the 17th December in a local nearby road.

I can remember the incident. When I'm not working I will occasionally drive my wife to work at the local school where she is a teacher - this avoids her havering to use her own car with difficult parking at the school. Usually I would drive straight into the school and drop her off there but on this morning, there was a Refuse lorry in the gateway so i judged it best to avoid it. Instead, I turned right intending to drop her off just a little way down the road in a safe place but found myself facing several cars trying to get down the road and heading towards me. I was fortunate that I could move over to my left to allow them to pass and whilst there suggested to the missus that she should get out here. She did - I moved off. All completed in the blink of an eye.

The first photo shows my car with the passenger door open and a foot emerging from the passenger seat. The second photo shows my wife alighted from the car and the passenger door shut. In both pics, the brake light is on (one was out of action - oh dear!) the time span between the two photos is 4 SECONDS.

The "offence or contravention quoted is 62J "Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway (Camera enforcement).

The photos do not show any markings, or footpath. In fact nothing on the roadway is discernible at all.

I've been back to the location and I reckon that for a camera car to have taken this photo, it must have been parked on the school crossing markings - is that allowed?

I wish to contest this ticket on the grounds that

1) 4 seconds does not constitute parking - it is certainly not in keeping with the Oxford Dictionary meaning of "Parked" and 2)

The photos give absolutely no indication of the location of the car in respect of the roadway or the footpath or any markings.

3). I had no alternative but to pull over to my left to allow other vehicles to pass.

What advice can you give me?

Regards

[lamma]

get pictures of the road with a clear view (no obstructions) and post them up. plus of the sign and lines (if any). Would help to see the pics you have of the alleged contravention - suitably washed of your personal details ! pics of the PCN as ell - also suitably washed but leave in the dates.

[Theodore T]

Thanks Lamma - how do I wash the pics and pcn?

[lamma]

MS Paint or any free graphics editing software

[Theodore T]

Ok but it will probably have to wait 'till tomorrow when I can get one of my children to do it.

Thanks

[lamma]

[Theodore T]

Good Morning,

I've now been able to scan and "wash" the photos. Hopefully they are attached.

[sailor sam]

Hi there,

 

Sorry but the images are too small. Try using photobucket.com

 

can I ask if you were stopped on any yellow school zg-zag markings?

[Theodore T]

I'll see what I can do about the size. I believe I was on School markings but had no choice as I had to let other traffic pass!

[sailor sam]

I'll see what I can do about the size. I believe I was on School markings but had no choice as I had to let other traffic pass!

 

Unfortunately if your wife got out while you were stationary on the markings, you are considered to be 'parked' not matter what the duration of you being stationary was. This is a comon problem outside schools nation wide and as such certain local authorities are using cameras. (It may have not been a camera car by the way).

 

See if you can post the pics/PCN up so we can take a good look but I doubt if you will have a case for appeal.

 

__________________

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[Theodore T]

OK I've saved the pics in Photobucket.com. Now how do I get them on here?

[Theodore T]

But regardless of my wife being in the car - I would have been stationary in that position in any event to allow the oncoming traffic to pass!

[sailor sam]

Copy the URL links to the photos and post them using the 'link' icon on the toolbar above your message window.

[Theodore T]

Pictures by TheodoreTrundle - Photobucket

Hopefully this is what is needed - fingers crossed!

[sailor sam]

But regardless of my wife being in the car - I would have been stationary in that position in any event to allow the oncoming traffic to pass!

 

It matters not my friend, the zig-zag markings have the same meaning as 'no stopping' (definition; to allow dropping off/picking up) so the moment a door is opened and someone gets out, you have 'parked' and therefore the offence has been commited. Had your wife not got out and waited until you were clear of the markings then all would of been fine.

 

It may still be worth looking at the markings/signage ect to see if they are compliant.

[Theodore T]

Did you manage to see the photos?

[sailor sam]

Ok its not for a school markings offence, its for parking partially on a footpath. The pics do not show this very clearly at all so I reckon we should see what others have to say. The pics could have been taken anywhere in my opinion.

[Theodore T]

The wording on the PCN differs slightly from the wording on the list of contraventions I downloaded from newparkinglaws.co.uk where it says "parked with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway (footway parking). Whereas on the PCN it reads "Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway (camera enforcement).

Is that significant?

[Theodore T]

The rear of the PCN under the heading Camera Evidence invites me to to be provided with, free of charge, such still images from that record as, in the authority's opinion, establish the contravention.

Does that mean they are holding other photos and if so could they use them in an appeal. Or would they have to rely on the two that they have sent to me and called "case evidence report" ?

[sailor sam]

The rear of the PCN under the heading Camera Evidence invites me to to be provided with, free of charge, such still images from that record as, in the authority's opinion, establish the contravention.

Does that mean they are holding other photos and if so could they use them in an appeal. Or would they have to rely on the two that they have sent to me and called "case evidence report" ?

 

Well the ones you have posted dont seem sufficeint to me. They do not show that your wheels are on the 'footway'. I reckon we should wait for other caggers to take a look.

[TheBogsDollocks]

The PCN is invalid. The council has failed to comply with Paragraph 2(a) of Statutory Instrument 2007/3483

 

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 (No. 3483) - Statute Law Database

 

The PCN must be posted on the date of the notice (23/12/2009) yet the council claim the date of posting is 24/12/2009. Therefore a procedural impropriety has occurred.

[Theodore T]

Well that's great news indeed thank you very much.

[green_and_mean]

The wording on the PCN differs slightly from the wording on the list of contraventions I downloaded from newparkinglaws.co.uk where it says "parked with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway (footway parking). Whereas on the PCN it reads "Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway (camera enforcement).

Is that significant?

 

The wording in London was changed by the LLA act 2008 which made all roads enforceable not just urban ones and footpaths as well as footways.

[Theodore T]

Thank you Green & Mean. I will certainly contest this PCN on the strength of the info given above by Blog Dollocks and as mentioned earlier by Sailor Sam - the photos do not show any supporting evidence as to the position of the car in relation to any road markings etc.

As a matter of interest I will re-visit the site tomorrow and stand at the spot where the photo was taken from (as determined by Google Earth using the coordinates printed on the Photos). I do not believe it possible to see road markings at that distance and I think there is a slight rise in the road making it impossible from that height and position to see markings on the far side of the junction. I'll report my findings.

[lamma]

photos show vehicle NOT on a kerb or pavement ! the tyres clearly 'go under' the level of the kerb stone to my eyes.