Help Again please on Charging Order

[jimbo45]

Hi all

It seems to be difficult to get ANY advice on charging orders -- I can't believe I'm the only one on this Forum who's got one of these.

 

I have a FINAL charging order on a house for a Credit Card debt. - I've managed to get the debt down to just under 7,000 GBP and can probably get it down to 5,000 GBP -- but I'm NOT currently working at the moment (FREE LANCE) and who knows when I will be working again.

 

The Solicitors (RESTONS - Miserable **** acting for HFC - a subsidiary of HSBC) just don't want to know and will push for a FORCED sale of the house.

 

HSBC (meant to be "Your Friendly Local Bank" just say it's not our problem even though they own 100% of HFC Bank)

 

As the charging order is FINAL I don't think there's much I can do about getting it "Set Aside" although if it's possible I would love to do it.

 

My 2 main problems here are

 

1) NOWHERE on the original CCA did it say that the CREDIT CARD agreement could be turned into a SECURED LOAN -- had it said that even on the small print then surely I can use "Mis-Selling" as I certainly would not have taken out the loan --it was sold to me most definitely as an UNSECURED LOAN. Seems one Law for Banks whilst another (or lack of one) for the poor consumer.

 

2) Can they really force a Sale of a House worth over 200,000 GBP with around only 9,000 GBP left on the mortgage for 5,000 GBP worth of Credit Card debt -- I think I would rather BURN the property down than give it to these scumbags --unlike a Mortgage where you know what will usually happen if you can't pay. The Mortgage luckily -- although small is being paid out from the maturity of an investment I made years ago which has matured - however I can't use that to pay off anything else other than continue the Mortgage which only has 14 months left to run.

 

I have NEVER SEEN on ANY CREDIT CARD agreement "Your Home is at risk if you can't keep up payments on any loans secured on it". -- Perhaps Credit Card agreements should come with the warning too.

 

Any help here -- I really can't get (or WANT) any more LOANS ever again so I don't care what equifax, experian etc hold on my "credit" file - but can 21st Century Britain really make you homeless because you've got a temporay problem with a Credit Card.

 

Would it be worth attempting to call the Lawyers bluff and explain the problem to a Court -- most lawyers try and avoid the court route wherever possible hoping to scare people into making impossible payments -- but it's not nice "playing Casino" with your house if you lose.

 

I wonder how some of these Lawyers - in particular RESTONS can even REACH their beds at night - never mind sleep in them.

 

Maybe time to call in "some favours"

 

I've posted this in this Forum since although not a Mortgage problem it is a possible Repossession action.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited December 8, 2009 by jimbo45

[mandyjayne]

Hi jimbo, dont dispair;)

 

You are not the only person on these forums with a charging order, lets get you moved to the legal forums, theres lots of us over there!

 

Did you not receive any court paperwork, alerting you to the CCJ restons got?

The fact is they got a CCJ by default as you did not defend it, following that they apply for an interim charging order, when its still not defended, after x amount of time the interim charging order becomes final, thats how it turns into "secured" so to speak.

 

You still maybe able to sort this...more help should be arriving soon:)

 

mj:)

[supasnooper]

Thread moved to legal forums.

[supasnooper]

If the Charging order has been made final then you'll need to apply to get it set aside. Please Can you post up the status.

 

Have a look at these link below for info -

 

CCJ removal inc. step by step guide

 

Did you defend the original claim ?

 

Did you oppose the Interim Charging Order ?

 

Also, read MJ's own thread for some extra info. help with CCJ/charge on home asap **STRUCK OUT**

[Echodale]

Is there a hearing set, if so when and what is the purpose of the hearing. Is the CCJ forthwith or is it order to pay by installments?

[jimbo45]

Hi there

The original CCJ and the Interim CO were pushed through the courts whilst I was away -- I did challenge Restons on this but they said "Letter posted legally" to your address --wasn't even Recorded delivery etc.

 

I was actually working in Belgium at the time -- with the current situation one has to go further and further to go and get work.

 

The CO was also made Final - because at the time I had NO MONEY left over to pay anything other than Mortgage.

 

I've got the debt down to a more manageable £7,000 and can probably pay a LITTLE more - but again I'm "between contracts" and won't be able to pay anything until a new contract turns up -- probably arounf February.

 

I've paid these B*****DS around £3,000 GBP in the last 6 months -- now I need a small "Payment Holiday"

 

-- I'm NOT trying to renegade on a Debt -- after all I DID have and use the Credit card but how is it you even get severely "S--T ON" when actually TRYING to pay a debt. Also I believe the 1600 GBP or so "Collection charge" is severely excessive and was added to the original CO.

 

I've also MANY times requested a proper statement from Restons -- typically something like

 

Original amount of debt ----XXXXX

Court costs -- xxxxxxx

Other charges xxxxxxxxx

Amount paid / date xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

 

Amount outstanding XXXXXXXXXXX

 

Never get anything -- I've requested a statement - but just get the old "Threatogram" If we don't get your next payment within 7 days we will immediately go to court --NO FURTHER WARNING

 

I just feel like burning the whole property down and having done with it - I could probably go and live in Mexico or somewhere for a few dollars a year and forget all this stuff - but why should I let these people win when I'm actually TRYING to pay off the debt.

 

Reasonableness from Banks I know is probably like wishing to win the Lottery every week consecutevely FOR A YEAR but surely even these people must realize they are much more likely to recover their money by being REASONABLE and helpful -- most of us didn't cause the Recession - THEY DID and whilst they get humungous amounts of money we are being trodden on even more -- not unfortunately an argument a Judge is likely to sympathize with.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited December 9, 2009 by jimbo45

[mandyjayne]

ok jimbo

 

if the ccj/co were pushed through the courts whilst you were away then those will be your grounds for a set aside along with anything else you can throw at um when you have all the paperwork you are about to ask for

 

What you need to do for starters is download a form N244 from your local court website, the fee for applying for a set aside at the court is £75 though:mad:.

 

you need to start by sending a CCA request to restons, (template in the letters section) and a SAR to the original creditor (who ever the credit card was with) send recorded delivery, with a £1.00 postal order for CCA and £10 for the SAR, keep proof of posting and copies of letters sent.

 

Hope this helps for now, im off to work but im sure someone else will be along soon.

 

Have a read of my thread, its a bit long, but will give you help as to what may lie ahead. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/167654-help-ccj-charge-home.html

 

There could be many factors that could make this a unenforcable debt, and by asking for the above will show you exactly what!

 

Good luck

 

MJ:D

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Will Do -- I can use part of the Winter Fuel Allowance to pay the 75 Quid -- might as well use it since I'm probably going to not need "Winter Fuel" with all the Hot Air I'm probably going to receive from Restons etc.

 

Actually I don't even mind paying the debt back (won't tell the Court that of course) as I DID have the Credit card (Marbles / HFC) but I can only pay back a reasonable amount - and what's really got in my craw is the "Back-door" method an Unsecured Load can be converted into a Secured one without ANY STATEMENT OF THIS being on the original Credit agreement. (Plus of course the typical "Extortion Fee" for "Collection" and in general the totally unprofessional way in which Restons handle the case - especially their chief "Extortioner" - Mr K DELVES -- anybody else had dealings with this odious specimen

 

IF I even remotely suspected a House could be at risk on a normal "Unsecured Credit Card agreement" I would have not taken out the Card in the first place.

 

A Mortgage says quite clearly "Your HOME is at RISK if you don't keep up any payments secured on it" - but I've looked at Credit Card agreements until I'm blue in the face --NOWHERE is there any warning like this on them - so could Mis-Selling be used as well as part of the defence in that I was sold a product which missed a CRITICAL CONDITION being stated on the original agreement - which had it been there in the first place I most certainly would NOT have taken out the Card agreement.

 

Has anybody ever got anywhere with this type of defence -- the fact that I haven't seen it so far rather dashes my hope along these lines. Amazing isn't it that they advertise "Unsecured Loans" etc -- and then you find out years later after you've got into difficulty that these agreements weren't "Unsecured" at all

 

- Any Caggers reading this Please be CAREFUL with CREDIT CARDS This is a NASTY position to end up in --having to play Casino with your own home for what is really a fairly small amount of debt (at least by Bank's standards) is NOT a nice position to be in.

 

(If the worst comes to the worst I've heard also that the sale fee goes into the Court -- does that mean that the equity I've got in the House gets lost as well or do I at least get that back - House around 220,000 Mortgage outstanding only 9,000 and not in arrears).

 

Anyway its worth it to try to get a Set Aside -- I'll donate any money from this if I win to the board as this is one of the few places to get help from these a--h-les.

 

In any case it should delay any sale application and TIME is what I need at the moment -- I could be back working again by Feb / Mar. -- I can't wait for the day when I can FINALLY get these vermin off my back.

 

Thanks to all

 

Cheers

jimbo

[Echodale]

So was the CCJ forthwith or pay by installments?

[mandyjayne]

Echo...if you get a final charging order its payable on sale of your property, not in installments. The ccj has been defaulted thats when the co comes into play.

 

If they are being really mean they can apply for a forced sale of the property so they can then get their money, but this is hard to enforce i believe.

 

mj:)

[Bevsboy]

I'm having problems with a CO myself, and have done a bit of research on the subject. As far as I am aware CO only becomes payable on sale of property, and Judges are reluctant to force sale, so creditor will have to wait until you sell up. However, judging my experiences over the past few months, anything can happen in our wonderful "justice" system. I got taken to Court by RCI Financial Services, who obtained judgement for full amount claimed. Sent application for Variation of the order to Watford County Court on 16th September requesting order to pay an affordable monthly amount. On 1st October received details of Interim Charging order obtained by RCI, with full hearing scheduled for 26th January 2010. Sent in letter to Court outlining my objections to the granting of a Final order with copy to claimats solicitor. Continued to chase progress of my application for Variation of original order, and was finally advised by Court official that it was given to judge for determination on 16th December, some three months after it was sent to Court. I was told it would be dealt with at the hearing on 26th January. Attended hearing involving 150 mile round trip, only to find the judge hadn't been given my file!. Claimants solicitor supplied judge with copy of Interim order, (but not my objection previously sent to Court), and the Judge "rubber stamped" the Final Order. My husband asked judge if he could speak on my behalf, which the judge refused, as she said the hearing was only scheduled for five minutes.Still no news of my application for a Variation of the original order, which the Court have now had for over four and a half months. Sorry if I have hijacked your thread, but just had to get my frustration off my chest at our alleged "justice" system. I will be happy to share my experiences, but don't quite know which direction to take.