London Underground Court Summons - PLEASE HELP!!!

[LAC22]

Hi,

I posted this yesterday in another thread but thought I would start my own thread as I could really use some help...

 

Hi all,

 

I too am in a somewhat similar position to the OP. In June, I mistakenly used my mother's staff nominee pass to travel to work. I was stopped by an RCI at Victoria who then questioned and cautioned me. I apologised, openly admitted my mistake, and fully co-operated with him, giving all necessary details even though I was in a rush to get to work (as I was running very late).

 

In August, I received a letter from LU Prosecutions Department stating that the facts of the incident is being considered, and if I have any comments to make I should do so and send it back to them. I did this, stating how sorry I was, how it was a first time offence and provided evidence to show that I did intend to purchase a ticket once I had reached Victoria station (which I did as I needed to continue my journey to work from there). I sent it back to them within the time frame given, but received no response/reply.

 

I received a letter of Summons today stating:

 

'That you on (particular date) did travel on the London Underground Railway without having previously paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof.'

 

I know that I was in the wrong, and I admit the offence as I understand that even though I purchased a ticket afterwards, I didn't have a ticket for the journey made. I am just anxious and worried about this going to court and getting a criminal record for it, which could affect CRB's & my career.

 

I have read through a couple of threads on here, and I tried calling the Prosecutions Dept. today but no luck. I will try again tomorrow to see if I can settle out of court, but is it too late for that?

I would really appreciate any advice on what to do next, or what the proceedings are from this point forward?

 

*UPDATE*: I called the Prosecutions Dept, and was told to put in writing any exceptional circumstances I could give as to why they shouldn't continue with court action. I am in the process of writing the letter/email, but I don't know if I should go to my local CAB and have a word with them about it as well.

Any suggestions or advice would be great. Thanks.

[RPI]

It certainly won't do you any harm to get advice from the CAB.

[LAC22]

Thanks RPI. I did in fact seek advice from my local CAB and they informed me to plead guilty, as my fine may be reduced by doing so at the earliest point.

 

I did write to the Prosecutions Department, but unfortunately they didn't think that I had exceptional circumstances to settle out of court.

 

I'm not too sure if I should contact the Magistrates Court directly and make them aware of the letter I sent to TFL, and of the mitigations mentioned in the letter, so that it can be used as evidence as well.

 

My court date is on the 9th November, so I would appreciate if anyone could give me advice on what else I should do ASAP as I need to send off my plea by next week.

 

Thanks.

[timbo58]

was it a railway/tube staff pass you misused?

If so: the entire family -staff member/spouse/dependants all lose their passes forever, no right to appeal either.

[LAC22]

was it a railway/tube staff pass you misused?

If so: the entire family -staff member/spouse/dependants all lose their passes forever, no right to appeal either.

 

Yes, it was a Tube staff nominee pass that was misused.

And I don't need to worry about the family member losing their pass forever as they do not work for TFL any more.

[timbo58]

ah: well that explains why they are insisting on prosecuting then.

The staff member MUST surrender all of the passes when they cease working for the company.

I'm surprised the company did not withhold outstanding wages etc until these were given back as this is what my TOC do.

 

RPI's advice is all you can do really, I cannot see what mitigation you can give that will lessen the possible sentence.

Sorry.

[Old-CodJA]

I have to say that I agree with Timbo here. This is a serious breach of trust.

 

Your original post says

 

'In June, I mistakenly used my mother's staff nominee pass to travel to work.'

 

It is clear that this wasn't a 'mistake' as you didn't have a staff pass of your own to get confused with.

 

You go on to say:

 

'it was a first time offence and provided evidence to show that I did intend to purchase a ticket once I had reached Victoria station'

 

The advice given by CAB is very good in this instance. When you get the Summons, I would take that advice and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity if I were you.

 

You may write to the Prosecutions Manager again or the Magistrates Court if you choose, but given this appears to be a clear attempt to abuse the staff travel facility, I'd say there is very little chance of a sympathetic hearing.

[vince0000]

hello sir,

 

i'm here to ask you about something regarding the summon letter from london underground. it was all about ''did attempt to travel on the london underground railway w/o having previously paid the fair with intent to avoid payment''.

 

here's what happened. i stayed overnight @ friend's house and after that day, i decided to go home and he gave me his son's child ticket. at first, i don't know it was a child ticket. i just knew it when im on my way to college. i used it twice and nobody stopped me. when i was about to go home to victoria station, someone stopped me. Finally! An underground security ask my ticket he found it was a Child Ticket. he and a BTP interviewed me like a criminal and they were laughing at me coz i'm so nervous and i didn't know what to say that time and i don't speak fluent english coz i'm an asian. So after that nerve wracking interview, he told me to wait for the verdict of LUL.

 

so, an intent for prosecution came to our house 5 weeks after. i immediately replied and apologised to them sincerely.... 5 weeks later again, i received a Summon Letter. In the last paragraph of the letter says that i'm going to pay a sum of £120 prosecution cost +4.50 fare and if the case is adjourned to another date, further cost may be applied.

 

and my question are:

 

1.) do i have to go to court and is there a possibility that i'll be prosecuted? (ofcourse)

2.) what's is the most appropriate to do? to plead guilty or not guilty? i actually don't have money to pay those fines coz im just a student visa and still sending the 1/2 of my salary to my family back home and still paying my bills and everything

3.) is there any chance to settle this to court and not to have a criminal record?

4.) can i still apply for work permit here in uk if ever i'll be convicted of this charge?

 

sir, or anyone, can you pls help me. i know i'm a stupid person and i should not have done it. this thing gave me highest level of stress. i'm so nervous of the possible outcome. Do you think i should go to court and try to beg, apologise to them and withdraw the case which i think it's so impossible to happen? or can i just reply to the letter and tell my situation here in uk and would use it to mitigate or lessen the severity of the case? pls sir, help me with this. thank you very much and more power. godbless.

[SRPO]

i actually don't have money to pay those fines coz im just a student visa and still sending the 1/2 of my salary to my family back home and still paying my bills and everything

3.) is there any chance to settle this to court and not to have a criminal record?

4.) can i still apply for work permit here in uk if ever i'll be convicted of this charge?

 

Seeing as you are working here on a student visa I suggest you apply for your work permit now before the border agency find out and deport you.

[vince0000]

i'm still waiting for the outcome of my application for extension of student visa. i just had a biometric couple of days ago. i'm just asking, can i settle this to court and just pay the fine? is there any chance that they can withdraw the case if i write my situation here in uk? can i use it as a mitigation? pls. tell me exactly what to do? coz i'm so confused? do you think, it's better for me to plead guilty or not? thanks for the reply. godbless you........

[Old-CodJA]

i'm here to ask you about something regarding the summon letter from london underground. it was all about ''did attempt to travel on the london underground railway w/o having previously paid the fair with intent to avoid payment''.

 

here's what happened. i stayed overnight @ friend's house and after that day, i decided to go home and he gave me his son's child ticket. at first, i don't know it was a child ticket. i just knew it when im on my way to college. i used it twice and nobody stopped me. when i was about to go home to victoria station, someone stopped me. Finally! An underground security ask my ticket he found it was a Child Ticket. he and a BTP interviewed me like a criminal and they were laughing at me coz i'm so nervous and i didn't know what to say that time and i don't speak fluent english coz i'm an asian. So after that nerve wracking interview, he told me to wait for the verdict of LUL.

 

so, an intent for prosecution came to our house 5 weeks after. i immediately replied and apologised to them sincerely.... 5 weeks later again, i received a Summon Letter. In the last paragraph of the letter says that i'm going to pay a sum of £120 prosecution cost +4.50 fare and if the case is adjourned to another date, further cost may be applied.

 

and my question are:

 

1.) do i have to go to court and is there a possibility that i'll be prosecuted? (ofcourse)

2.) what's is the most appropriate to do? to plead guilty or not guilty? i actually don't have money to pay those fines coz im just a student visa and still sending the 1/2 of my salary to my family back home and still paying my bills and everything

3.) is there any chance to settle this to court and not to have a criminal record?

4.) can i still apply for work permit here in uk if ever i'll be convicted of this charge?

 

sir, or anyone, can you pls help me. i know i'm a stupid person and i should not have done it. this thing gave me highest level of stress. i'm so nervous of the possible outcome. Do you think i should go to court and try to beg, apologise to them and withdraw the case which i think it's so impossible to happen? or can i just reply to the letter and tell my situation here in uk and would use it to mitigate or lessen the severity of the case? pls sir, help me with this. thank you very much and more power. godbless.

 

I'll try to keep this brief:

 

The offence seems to be very clear. The details are:

 

a) You are an adult who tried to use a child rate ticket,

b) You did not pay your fare before boarding a train

c) You accepted someone else's ticket with the intention of using it for travel to avoid paying

 

Your interpretaition of the officers attitude, you say they were: 'laughing at you coz I'm so nervous and didn't know what to say at that time and I don't speak fluent english coz I'm an asian'

 

I have to say your written English is very good and whilst your Asian accent may be strong, if you have written all of this yourself, I don't think you will have difficulty making yourself understood provided that you take it slowly.

 

I suggest that you consider an alternative interpretation regarding the laughter. It is quite possible that if you showed signs of nervousness, a smile by an inspector and slightly jolly way of dealing with questioning can often be an effective way of taking the heat out of any situation and putting a person who is being reported at ease.

 

Factually, the offence appears to be clearly made out so far as any Court is concerned

 

The Summons that you have received does not constitute a 'bill' for the costs + fare, but gives notice that if you are convicted, the rail company will ask the Magistrates to order you to pay the costs and fare plus any fine that they may impose for the offence. There would also be a £15 victim surcharge that is imposed on anyone who is fined by a Court for this type of offence. It is likely that the total charge could be anywhere between £150 and £400, but will certainly be very much reduced for acknowledging your guilt.

 

In answer to your 3 specific questions:

 

1) The Summons is notice that you are being prosecuted.

2) If you go to Court, plead guilty, ask for any mitigation to be taken into account and above all say sorry, then the Magistrates will take this into consideration and will give you the maximum credit allowable. That means you will get a lesser fine and how much you have to pay in costs, if anything, will be up to them to decide.

If you plead not guilty, you will have to go to Court at a later date and a full trial will take place. If you are then found guilty, you will not get any credit for an early guilty plea and will face a much higher penalty.

3) That is up to the rail company prosecution staff and it seems that they have already rejected your application because they have issued a Summons. There is nothing to stop you asking again, but the only chance that it might succeed is if you can pay the full costs and fare immediately. Even then, there is no obligation on the company to accept your offer.

4) You can apply, but it will be a matter for the authorities to consider. In the scheme of things this is a relatively low-level offence.

 

In my opinion, you will be found guilty of the charge laid.

 

You can either write to the Court pleading guilty and explaining in your letter the mitigating circumstances that lead to you avoiding fares and ask them to deal with it in your absence or, attend Court in person and plead guilty and say sorry.

 

.

[vince0000]

yes sir, i must admit what i've done. and it was a stupidity and i will never ever do again. i think, it's better for me to plead guilty then. thank you very much sir whoever you are. you're such a good samaritan. thanks for the advice and i will take this to account. just keep this up and you'll be blessed someday. i just hope and pray that everything would be alright. i still couldn't imagine that there are some people like you here who are willing to help us without expecting something. don't worry, if i win a lottery, i'll give you minimum of 2grand. promise. and thanks for praising my writing skills. thanks again sir. i'll update you for the outcome. godspeed

[ccnien]

could you please update what's going on after the court?