Red Light Offence - Not sure what to do

[TD27]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I phoned the court today and was told that it makes no difference whether I attend in person or not, the costs will be the same.

 

Having read MightyMouse's reply it made me realise that it's not easy putting feelings into words. It wasn't the "oi darlin" that made me feel threatened - heck, at my age I'll take as many as I can get - but the physical presence. Don't forget, all this happened within a few seconds with no time to think properly, and my very first instinct was to just keep driving.

 

So I've decided to attend in person, plead guilty and hope for a sympathetic hearing. Date is 6 October.

 

Thanks again. You've all been very helpful.

 

You need to paint a picture for the magistrates as to what happened, how it unfolded, what you saw, heard and felt.

 

This is why I think you should write it down and craft it. Think of the language you're going to use

 

'These 3 youths came up to my car'

 

or

 

'These three figures emerged out of the darkness, shouting towards me and appeared to be moving at speed. I felt myself panic. I didn't want to be there, I was on my own.....what if.....'

 

I'm not saying this is what you should write, but you have to take the magistrates back to the time and what you felt. After all you want them to have feelings for your situation. A cold explanation of what happened won't cut it.

 

As for the day itself, most people get nervous which is why its important to write your statement out as per my previous post and practice reading several times so you can read it with feeling. We're not talking acting here, just feeling.

 

Describe the physical presence, were they tall, large build, shaven heads? Refer to your own size and demeanour. The fact the roads and footpaths were empty all of this contributes to your feelings and concerns.

[mkb]

TD - that is excellent advice! Have tickled your scales

[TD27]

Very kind - TY!

[Marcus_ad]

Hi

 

have you tried challenging the callibration of the camera at the time ? If the maintenance records are not up to scratch they don't have leg to stand on.

 

1 second you say.....

 

I'm fed up with this fascist nation of camera watching control freaks. I didn't vote for it, and I have never ever met anyone who did.

[lamma]

Don't mix a technical defense (re the camera) with your mitigating defense. I also suggest that "I felt myself panic" should be changed. the bench could easily draw the conclusion that you went through the red light in a panic without checking. How about "I felt threatened and was concerned about the dangers so I left the scene promptly and as safely as possible" or words to that effect.

[TD27]

Lamma, good point. I did deliberate on those words for the same reasons.

 

I guess I wanted to encourage the OP to get across the instantaneous reaction. I wonder whether something like ' leaving the scene promptly' or similar could appear more thought out?

 

Take the point about 'panic' though.

[lamma]

assessment and decision time is sub second - or a second at most. in the circumstances described the reaction "AVOID ! " would spring up very quickly in anyone's mind. maybe changing ' leaving the scene promptly' to something like 'avoid the dangers presented' ? its going through the red light with forethought and careful observation that needs to come across I suppose. The court may still hand out 'the usual' but presenting the facts of the case in the best way possible will give the best chance of a result. never 'panic' behind the wheel !

[CHR]

Thanks for the really useful information especially TD and lamma. I've taken notes of everything you've said and will try and make good use of them.

 

I have to admit that I'm very nervous about appearing in person. I'm not that good at speaking in front of a group of people (especially since I've learnt that the court is open to members of the public).

 

I've always considered myself as a considerate driver and can't believe I am now a criminal by missing those lights by a second.

 

I'm now beginning to think I should have just paid the fine and got the points but at the time I honestly thought it worked in a similar way to how parking tickets are dealt with. That is, you give mitigating reasons why the offence took place and (if reasonable) the ticket is cancelled. Now it seems that is not the case in this instance and I'm not going to be in any better position by appealing this. Once you go in guilty, the magistrate can't overturn the offence (I believe). Does anyone know what the 'best' outcome I could hope for? My income is very low (less than £100 a week).

[Marcus_ad]

Come on - wake up and smell the coffee beans, its a red light camera! There are no mitigating circumstances unless you have definite proof. Crying in front of a Magistrate never, ever works, they see it every day.

 

Your only hope is that the camera was not functioning properly. As offences go its the lowest of the low - so prostrating yourself samurai style is just going to make you look silly. Fight it technically - its your only real hope.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Marcus_ad
spelling

[TD27]

Thanks for the really useful information especially TD and lamma. I've taken notes of everything you've said and will try and make good use of them.

 

I have to admit that I'm very nervous about appearing in person. I'm not that good at speaking in front of a group of people (especially since I've learnt that the court is open to members of the public).

 

I've always considered myself as a considerate driver and can't believe I am now a criminal by missing those lights by a second.

 

I'm now beginning to think I should have just paid the fine and got the points but at the time I honestly thought it worked in a similar way to how parking tickets are dealt with. That is, you give mitigating reasons why the offence took place and (if reasonable) the ticket is cancelled. Now it seems that is not the case in this instance and I'm not going to be in any better position by appealing this. Once you go in guilty, the magistrate can't overturn the offence (I believe). Does anyone know what the 'best' outcome I could hope for? My income is very low (less than £100 a week).

 

Here's a link to explain the various options open to them;

 

Sentencing options in the magistrates court (Law in action: learning through scripted role plays)

 

Its a few years old, but gives you the general flavour.

 

You're not appealing, you're admitting that it happened but you're explaining why and asking the magistrates to accept that these were exceptional or special circumstances.

 

You could also go onto www.roadsidelawyer.co.uk

 

They offer a free question and answer service, they're very good IMO.

 

You're not a criminal, you did what you thought was right at the time for your safety.

 

As for appearing in person, I don't think you have to worry about the public gallery being packed. If you want to get more of an idea go to your local magistrates and have a look. If you know the surroundings on the day you may feel better when you address the bench.

 

Also lots of eye contact with each magistrate. Try and read and look up. Don't read too quickly and just be yourself.

 

The way you have come over on here is very genuine, I'm sure that will come across.

Edited September 23, 2009 by TD27
punctuation

[letshelp]

Come on - wake up and smell the coffee beans, its a red light camera! There are no mitigating circumstances unless you have definite proof. Crying in front of a Magistrate never, ever works, they see it every day.

 

Your only hope is that the camera was not functioning properly. As offences go its the lowest of the low - so prostrating yourself samurai style is just going to make you look silly. Fight it technically - its your only real hope.

Very helpful I'm sure. Thanks for your input:roll:

regards

[mkb]

Any update on your case?