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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Can I avoid repossession?


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Hi! I'm new to the forum and I could do with some advice.

 

I have a mortgage with GMAC which has just been taken over by Webb Resolutions (on the same terms - or so I am led to believe).

 

My situation is this. I becme unemployed in January 09 and I couldn't keep up my repayments so using savings I paid half the contracted amount. I now have arrears circa £6k. I have just got a new job (not as much money as the last one - but I'm not complaining). I've done an income and expenditure and having come out of a fixed rate my contracted monthly is down to an amount I can afford. However this is assuming my rate doesn't shoot up in the future. However this only leaves me with about £65 per month to pay back on the arrears. I've sent the income and expenditure off to Webb and given that they charge around £50 a month just in charges on the arrers, I don't think they're gonna go of for it.

 

I guess then the next step will be for them to start repossesion proceedings. I just wonder whether if I made the same proposal to a Court if I would get anywhere? Might I be able to get the repossession order suspended or something to that effect? In the long term staying in the house is likely going to be hard, but for the next 12 months or so I need the stablity of staying here. My wife is in Kidney faiture and about to go on dyalysis and she is just recovering from the relapse of an acute mental illness. So to sum up do you think the a Judge would look favourable on the following

 

Contracted montly payment plus a token £65 towards arrears. Based on the fact that my wife needs some stability for the next 12 months at least to settle into her diayysis and recover from her mental illness. I'm hoping that in the meantime I can look at selling up and also getting a housing association house.

 

Any advice would be valued. I've been trying the CAB all week but have yet to get through - I will keep trying but some advice in the meantime will put my mind at ease.

 

Thank you in advance.

Edited by OhPunky!
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Hi there, you've done the right thing in writing to the lender explaining your position and giving your income and expenditure. Did you send by recorded delivery? also, did you keep a copy of what you sent? You will need this is they do issue a repossession claim.

 

Given that you now have a new job and can afford to pay something towards the arrears you won't lose your home. We will help you with a defence should they proceed with a claim.

 

You say the arrears are £6k - does this include the monthly £50 charges? if so then the true arrears will be less. The charges should be added to the outstanding mortgage amount and cannot be included in the arrears, plus anything you pay towards the arrears should reduce the amount and not be swallowed up by the charges. You can only be in arrears with your monthly payment, not charges.

 

Ell-enn

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Hi! Thnak you so much for the reply. I've been dealing with this on my own for quite a while so it's so amazing to hear someone say I might not loose my home.

 

Ididn't send the income/expenditure by recorded, but given that I sent it a week ago without response - I'll send it again by recorded by way of a follow up.

 

The charges are included in the arrears so that does make me optimistic. I will update this thread when I get a reply from the Webb. BTW does anyone know much about Webb - can't see much on the internet and their website is parked.

 

Thnaks again!

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Yes, do send the letter again by recorded and print off the signature receipt from the royalmail website - keep it with the copy letter, as you may need it later. Did you refer to the Civil Justice Council Mortgage Arrears Protocols in your letter? If not, include the following as your last paragraphs in the one you send by recorded.

"I am sure you are aware of the Civil Justice Council Consultation Paper – Mortgage Arrears Protocol whereby lenders are required to give positive assistance to customers who are in financial difficulties and who are asking for help. One of the recommended options within the Protocols is the capitalisation of arrears.

 

I trust you will understand my position in this and look forward to your positive response"

 

Ell

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Ell-enn is giving you good advice. If the arrears are capatalised along with the charges then you should be able to move forward. there are also posters here who have complained to the FOS about the high level of charges and soem have had then refunded. some lenders are under scrutiny for these automatic charges.

 

Keep in communication with your lender and let us know what reaction you get

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Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

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offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

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Will definately write to my lender again and will keep this thread updated. Just one question - if the Mortgage company dosn't agree to capitalisation of the arrears does a Judge have the power to make them do it?

 

Thank you for the advice!

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Pre-Action Protocol for Possession Claims based on Mortgage or Home Purchase Plan Arrears in Respect of Residential Property - Ministry of Justice

 

 

I dont think at the present time the courts have the power to force a lender to change the terms of the mortgage - but if your case went to court the lender would have to explain why they have declined that option.

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Thanks for the link - it's certainly going to help when I next talk to the Mortgage company - up until now the bloke I talked to made it seem that a Court would basically just do what ever the mortgage company asked a Judge.

 

I've got another queston. Basically my brother has been offered a job abroad on a mimimum 2 year contract. He wants to rent his house out and is willing to let my family live there and pay just enough to cover his mortgage - sensible chap got his mortage 15 years ago and it's half mine! I'd also be getting a house at 2/3 the market rental value. Also cos it would be pretty good having a landlord I know well!

 

Here's my question basically I would love to give my house back to the lender but I know that they would end up selling the house for much less than it's worth. Would I be better to sell myself - even though at some point I may have an overlap with the rental house? If I stopped paying my mortgage would the lender hold off possession if it was on the market. I feel pretty optimist I could sell it fairly quickly - a house in my street would sold within 2 weeks of being on the market recently. I'd still get less that the mortgage value but I would still owe less.

 

Ideally I am anxious about loosing the reassurance of having my own home. What really worries me is that whilst I can afford the contracted a the payments at the moment if the rate ever went up even by £100 I would be unable to afford it.

 

Any opinions would be good. Also if I still owed a sum after the sale would the morgage company come to an arrangement on repayment? I don't have many possesions worth anything and as I've aready mentioned my disposable income is very low. I read somewhere they could put an arresting order on my salary.

 

Sorry to ramble but any advice or opinion would be som very welcome.

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you have to remember this is all personal opinion - but if at all possible try and sell rather than hand the keys over. There are lots of horror stories about the costs incurred by the lenders and the price the properties sold for.If you are in negative equity you will have to get permission for the sale to go through - but if they refuse permission and then consequently sell the house for less you should be able to challenge that in court.

 

As for the balance they can in fact chase you for the balance owing for 12 years - but they can not get blood out of a stone and quite often would come to an agreement about the debt.

 

Have a look on this site in the money /arrears section for what happens if you hand the keys back.

 

www.direct.gov.uk

 

If at all possible I would at least pay the normal MP at the moment and hopefully the court will look on that favourably.

 

At the moment you need to try and minimise the loss and the option of you renting seems quite a good idea - and as you say you will not have the added pressure of all the worry about what will happen if the rates go up.

 

Or you stay there and hope that house prices do iincrease again?

 

As you can see it is all a matter of opinion unfortunately

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi Ohpunky,

 

I would recommend that you DO NOT SPEAK to them.

 

Always put everything in writing as then you have a paper trail if you need it and, as you have already said, the guy at the mortgage co already says that the court will do as they say.

 

Save yourself the grief and write only

 

GK

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Hi guys! Many thanks for the advice. I am genuinely overwhelmed by all the support - I've been running through all this in my head for so long!

 

I will definately put everything in writing from here on and make sure I sent it recorded.

 

I'm going to get a couple of estate agents over to get a valuation and some opinions on the local market and then put this to the Mortgage company.

 

Not sure if anyone know much about the Company that now has my Mortgage. It's called Webb Resolutons. My mortgage was with GMAC but I believe they've sold on a parcel of their 'toxic' debts. Someone I spoke to said they might have even bought my mortgage for 50 pence in the pound!!!

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  • 2 months later...

Hi. Haven't posted here in a while but no my circumstances have changed - I need some more advice. Basically I'm at point where I've decided that trying to keep hold of the house is just not worth it. My credit status is wrecked, I'm going to be at retirement age in 6 yearas, my job is a tempory contract anyway and the term of my interest free Morgage ends in 4 years. Basically I've found a rental house on favourable terms. What I really need is some good practical advice on Voluntary Surrender of the house to the mortgage company. I'm in -tive equity and I'm also going down the Bankrupcy route. Any advice would be valued - I'm a bit concerned because I've heard that if you sign the wrong form from the Mortgage company you can become liable for the shortfall even in Bankrupcy.

 

Thnaks in advance.

Edited by OhPunky!
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Hi, sorry that you have had to make this decision but hopefully in the long run it should ease your stressful situation.

 

I am afraid I know nothing about BR but how can they get the shortfall if you have very little income and no asset?. I would try the directgov website as I think they have a link to info on BR.

 

Were you "sold" the morgtage in the knowledge that it would go past your retirement date? What was in palce for you to ensure you could continue payments at that time?

 

Is your rental house all definitely sorted , are they fully aware of your situation?

 

I will see if I can find a link about handing the keys over

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi guys! Many thanks for the advice. I am genuinely overwhelmed by all the support - I've been running through all this in my head for so long!

 

I will definately put everything in writing from here on and make sure I sent it recorded.

 

I'm going to get a couple of estate agents over to get a valuation and some opinions on the local market and then put this to the Mortgage company.

 

Not sure if anyone know much about the Company that now has my Mortgage. It's called Webb Resolutons. My mortgage was with GMAC but I believe they've sold on a parcel of their 'toxic' debts. Someone I spoke to said they might have even bought my mortgage for 50 pence in the pound!!!

 

Some things to consider..........

 

  1. Your "Mortgage" document is fraud in the factum. They, the Mortgage Co never gave you anything of value, they took your signiture and montized it and basically lent you your own money - you were not given full disclosure of that , they did not provide anything of value therefore there was not equal consideration
  2. Lawful Terms and Conditions, Which basicaly means that there should be no mischief in the proposed agrrement! - which there was

Also i would chalange whether the orig documentation even exists! in light of the recent MERS case , chances are the the original "note" has gone missing.... no note no repos!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]....Please don't bother my master 'cos my sister & I might bite you...

 

I DO NOT offer legal advice

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"I just say what I say because everyone is entitled to my opinion!"

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Hi. Haven't posted here in a while but no my circumstances have changed - I need some more advice. Basically I'm at point where I've decided that trying to keep hold of the house is just not worth it. My credit status is wrecked, I'm going to be at retirement age in 6 yearas, my job is a tempory contract anyway and the term of my interest free Morgage ends in 4 years. Basically I've found a rental house on favourable terms. What I really need is some good practical advice on Voluntary Surrender of the house to the mortgage company. I'm in -tive equity and I'm also going down the Bankrupcy route. Any advice would be valued - I'm a bit concerned because I've heard that if you sign the wrong form from the Mortgage company you can become liable for the shortfall even in Bankrupcy.

 

Thnaks in advance.

 

 

This is what i would do in your circumstance

 

  • Question the validity of your alleged mortage contract NOW!
  • do not consent to anything they send you
  • do not speak to them on the phone
  • stay in your property payment free for as long as you can ( why do you want to rent another propertry that will cost you?
  • dont go BR
  • Investigate why your mortage is/was a fraud, and that no one has "lent" you anything of value, therefore why should you ever leave the property?

Radical stuff ? yes maybe but in the next year as more people discover the truth about mortgages & Loans..it will be the norm!

 

the time of the Bankster is OVER!!

 

 

also is there anyone living in your property (apart from you & not a paying lodger/tenant) that is NOT on your "mortgage document" ? like a wife/husband/partner etc ?

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]....Please don't bother my master 'cos my sister & I might bite you...

 

I DO NOT offer legal advice

-

"I just say what I say because everyone is entitled to my opinion!"

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Wow! Thanks for the advice. It is pretty overwhelming stuff. Does it mean that the Mortgage company would have to remove there interest in the house completely?

 

The reason that I'm going off to a rented house is that a family friend is lettng me rent it below market value and is offering me an assured tenancy for 2 years and he is also comfrtable with me being a BR. The reason for BR is that in additon to the mortgage I have 50k of unsecured debt. Also my daughter has moved back in with my wife and I as she has gone back to University.

 

How do I go about challenging the validity of my mortgage contract? Do I do a SAR?

 

Also do you have any links or sources of info that tell me more about the basis for challenging the Mortgage company?

 

If there is any chance I could stay in the house - it would be like a lottery win!

Edited by OhPunky!
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Questions....

 

is your wife named on the alleged mortgage?

is your daughter under the age of 18 ?

 

i need more details on the alleged mortrgage

 

who is it with ?

how long ago did you take it out?

how many months are you in arrears?

Have they started repo proceedings yet?

do you have any equity in it?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]....Please don't bother my master 'cos my sister & I might bite you...

 

I DO NOT offer legal advice

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"I just say what I say because everyone is entitled to my opinion!"

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is your wife named on the alleged mortgage? Yes

is your daughter under the age of 18 ? No

 

i need more details on the alleged mortrgage

 

who is it with ? I took the mortgage out with GMAC RFC but it has been sold on to Webb Resolutions (first I learnt of this was in a letter from Webb in June).

 

how long ago did you take it out? 2007

 

how many months are you in arrears? 4 whole months missed but before that 6 months paid at half the 'contracted' amount

 

Have they started repo proceedings yet? No

 

do you have any equity in it? No - even if the house sold at market value (i.e. in the same range as two other house's in my street that sold in August) then I would still have a shortfall of circa 15k (factoring charges they've added).

Edited by OhPunky!
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Update. Basically just seen an Officer from my local council to talk about Mortgage rescue. Essentially the only scheme I would be eligable for is the Mortage to Rent - however they won't consider me unless I have the 15 day notice from the Lender of repossession! Also they only pay 97% of the market value as I understand it - so it would leave a shortfall.

 

Also my lender rang today to chase up (naughty of me but I didn't say much or commit to anything). I told him about this (hoping he might repossess me!) and he told me that the lender can access an agency who will access my circumstances and then fast track my claim. Bascially my understanding was of what I was told is that the Lender could initiate this process - which threw me because I thought only the govt/council could do so. The rub is that the lender wants to send me a form to sign so that he can get things underway - slighty worried about signing anything from the lender.

 

Any opinions anyone?

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