Help needed with BoS credit card agreement

[underdog13]

( and I agree - they are berks!!!)

 

MM

I was being polite - sort of:D

[mooiismum]

You can blue tac thick paper (such as bits torn from an envelope) over the sensitive info, scan and post:) Saves the ink used in photocopying; don't laugh, you're gonna get through a loooot of ink with all the correspondence to these berks;)

 

 

It always pays to stay polite even though you may be thinking something else

 

MM

[mooiismum]

Recent update :-

 

Having sent a folow up letter requesting a legible copy of the CCA HBOS jumped the gun by initiating the County Court action, so today OH has received a second but equally illegable copy of same agreement accompanied by......... a set of very clear terms and conditions with someone else's name and address on.

 

Is this a new ploy whereby if they can't supplied the correct documentation, they will substitute somebody elses. Would this be classed as disclosure under the Data Protection ACT?

 

MM

[the_shadow]

Recent update :-

 

Having sent a folow up letter requesting a legible copy of the CCA HBOS jumped the gun by initiating the County Court action, so today OH has received a second but equally illegable copy of same agreement accompanied by......... a set of very clear terms and conditions with someone else's name and address on.

 

Is this a new ploy whereby if they can't supplied the correct documentation, they will substitute somebody elses. Would this be classed as disclosure under the Data Protection ACT?

 

MM

 

If it contains someone elses personal details then its a complaint to the ICO as a breach of DPA.

 

S.

[freethemice]

What are the rules if a creditor starts court action while a complaint is been investigated by the information commissionaire or if a complaint arrises during the court process?

Is this grounds for a summary judgement or just more ammunition for the case?

[mooiismum]

Thanks S,

Thought as much. We will be throwing that into the mixer for the Judge. Just waiting to see what our solicitor says about everything.

 

MM

[mooiismum]

If it contains someone elses personal details then its a complaint to the ICO as a breach of DPA.

 

S.

 

 

Thank S

 

Thought as much, that'll be thrown into the mixer for the Judge along with everything else handed over to our solicitor.

 

Hope all Caggers have a good weekend

 

MM & MM'sOH

[Bazooka Boo]

Glad to hear you have got some legal support MM:D

 

If I were the judge I'd have thrown this out and laughed at the BOS for being so damn immature!

 

It is incredible that even now this far down the line they are still un able to act like adults and a professional financial company employed to look after peoples money and information!

 

This will make fantastic reading in the local press:D (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

 

I am very very confident that any Judge in the country will, laugh so much he will do a little squirt of wee in his pants!

You both have nothing to worry about:-D

 

 

Boo;-)

The best of Health to you both!

[mooiismum]

Glad to hear you have got some legal support MM:D

 

If I were the judge I'd have thrown this out and laughed at the BOS for being so damn immature!

 

It is incredible that even now this far down the line they are still un able to act like adults and a professional financial company employed to look after peoples money and information!

 

This will make fantastic reading in the local press:D (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

 

I am very very confident that any Judge in the country will, laugh so much he will do a little squirt of wee in his pants!

You both have nothing to worry about:-D

 

 

Boo;-)

The best of Health to you both!

 

Evening Boo

 

Can't believe their latest gaff and to top it issuing a County Court Summons when account in dispute letter not acknowledged!!!! Trained monkeys' could do better. Must have been the after-school help that sent this lot out.

 

OH sends a big thank you for your continuing support and we also wish you continuing good health.

 

We will keep you posted with the next

instalment of the comical antics of Bank of Scotland.

 

Hope you have a good weekend

 

MM & MM'sOH

[mooiismum]

Had a response from the solicitor confirming the anomolies in the documentation & also the pitfalls about contesting the judgement ie about cases being stayed etc but I'm still going for it.

 

Any help with putting the defence together will be grately appreciated.

 

MM'sOH

Edited September 24, 2009 by mooiismum
typo

[mooiismum]

How do you put a defence together please?

 

Could someone please help OH put together a County Court defence.

He'is suffering from severe depression, (doctor's diagnosis) due to all this.

Never having done anything like this OH doesn't have a clue where to start.

All help will be most gratefully appreciated.

 

MM

Edited September 24, 2009 by mooiismum

[the_shadow]

How do you put a defence together please?

 

Could someone please help OH put together a County Court defence.

He'is suffering from severe depression, (doctor's diagnosis) due to all this.

Never having done anything like this OH doesn't have a clue where to start.

All help will be most gratefully appreciated.

 

MM

 

Ok....

 

Firstly I get confused on who is running this thread... is this mooiismum or mooiismum's OH who is being taken to court as that is the person expected to argue in front of a judge although I believe you can ask the judge if he will allow you to be a litigant friend which will allow you to argue in court although I believe all docs and forms will need still to be signed by the owner of the debt. [Actually probably better to look up something called a lay representative, less formal application needed I believe] a relative or friend of the defendant can speak for the claimant.

 

As to the defence when do you have to get it in?

Have you received anything back from the solicitors in reply to the CRP31.14?

 

Dont forget if you acknowledged you have 14 days + 14 days (extra for acknowledging) and 5 for service. So 28 days in total from the date on the claim form.

 

S.

[mooiismum]

Ok....

 

Firstly I get confused on who is running this thread... is this mooiismum or mooiismum's OH who is being taken to court as that is the person expected to argue in front of a judge although I believe you can ask the judge if he will allow you to be a litigant friend which will allow you to argue in court although I believe all docs and forms will need still to be signed by the owner of the debt. [Actually probably better to look up something called a lay representative, less formal application needed I believe] a relative or friend of the defendant can speak for the claimant.

 

As to the defence when do you have to get it in?

Have you received anything back from the solicitors in reply to the CRP31.14?

 

Dont forget if you acknowledged you have 14 days + 14 days (extra for acknowledging) and 5 for service. So 28 days in total from the date on the claim form.

 

S.

 

I started the thread (MM) by looking and asking for advise on this matter but its MM'sOH whose debt this is, he has just had a biopsy for cancer and is currently receiving treatment for severe depression, therefore I (MM) ask for help on his behalf, cos he's lost the plot and can't cope,which goes without question really.

 

There hasn't been a reply so far to the CPR 31.14 request, so the defence has to be back by 14th October, if my maths serves me correctly.

 

How does OH start, what info do you need to include bearing in mind there are anomolies with the dates, no Consumer Credit Act mentioned, illegible documents , inconsistencies with details,& including missing portions of documents. Is there any Court "jargon" that needs to be quoted etc.

 

As already stated any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

MM (MM'sOH is poorly)

[the_shadow]

I started the thread (MM) by looking and asking for advise on this matter but its MM'sOH whose debt this is, he has just had a biopsy for cancer and is currently receiving treatment for severe depression, therefore I (MM) ask for help on his behalf, cos he's lost the plot and can't cope,which goes without question really.

 

There hasn't been a reply so far to the CPR 31.14 request, so the defence has to be back by 14th October, if my maths serves me correctly.

 

How does OH start, what info do you need to include bearing in mind there are anomolies with the dates, no Consumer Credit Act mentioned, illegible documents , inconsistencies with details,& including missing portions of documents. Is there any Court "jargon" that needs to be quoted etc.

 

As already stated any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

MM (MM'sOH is poorly)

 

Sorry today was hectic and I got lazy on a lot of threads just speed reading, apologies as you deserved better.

 

 

Ok as you've not had anything back from the solicitors in regards your 31.14 request personally I'd wait until about the 9th to file a defence... and if they still haven't replied by then I'd suggest a slightly amended holding defence possibly mentioning they have sent a CCA with someone elses details.

 

If you wanted to you could send them a reminder about the CPR 31.14 request... you sent this recorded delivery I assume?

 

At the moment without seeing what they are going to rely on as "the agreement" in their eyes at least you cant really put a defence together imo.

 

Did you ever find the default notice?

 

S.

[mooiismum]

Sorry today was hectic and I got lazy on a lot of threads just speed reading, apologies as you deserved better.

 

 

Ok as you've not had anything back from the solicitors in regards your 31.14 request personally I'd wait until about the 9th to file a defence... and if they still haven't replied by then I'd suggest a slightly amended holding defence possibly mentioning they have sent a CCA with someone elses details.

 

If you wanted to you could send them a reminder about the CPR 31.14 request... you sent this recorded delivery I assume?

 

At the moment without seeing what they are going to rely on as "the agreement" in their eyes at least you cant really put a defence together imo.

 

Did you ever find the default notice?

 

S.

 

No worries S, you've been good with your help we don't take offence.

 

OH can't ever remember receiving a default notice and he's kept everything that's arrived by post. (He never throws anything away). I've just looked through everything and there's no mention of a default anywhere, just says default sums and interest on a Bank of Scotland advice of missed payments (that's when the account was in dispute). So until we know what B of S have got as per the CPR 31.14 letter I guess he can't proceed any further.

 

I'll keep updating this thread as and when we receive further info although obviously there is a time limit with regards to filing a defence? Am I correct with this, even though they may not send all the info requested or would we have to inform the court that they haven't complied with the CPR 31.14 letter?

 

regards

MM

 

Hope all caggers have a good weekend!

[the_shadow]

If you give them till the 9th/10th and then you'll need to file a defence whether they've replied or not... if they've not then its going to be a holding defence I would suggest.. .basically you state you cannot enter a particularised defence cos their particulars of claim are pants and didnt have the written agreement attached.

 

I think the time to mention the DPA-breach agreement is during the defence also, goes to show a lack of care and attention on their part.

 

One question about this other persons CCA, did the letter accompanying it state this is what your agreement would have looked like? Is it possible the information on the form is dummy or does it look real? A bit harsh asking you to make the judgment but you cant post it up on here either as that further breaches DPA if its real

 

All the best to you and your OH.

 

S.

[mooiismum]

If you give them till the 9th/10th and then you'll need to file a defence whether they've replied or not... if they've not then its going to be a holding defence I would suggest.. .basically you state you cannot enter a particularised defence cos their particulars of claim are pants and didnt have the written agreement attached.

 

I think the time to mention the DPA-breach agreement is during the defence also, goes to show a lack of care and attention on their part.

 

One question about this other persons CCA, did the letter accompanying it state this is what your agreement would have looked like? Is it possible the information on the form is dummy or does it look real? A bit harsh asking you to make the judgment but you cant post it up on here either as that further breaches DPA if its real

 

All the best to you and your OH.

 

S.

 

 

Regarding the other persons info, this looks like it has been sent by mistake, the letter states :- Enclosed is a copy of the signed agreement.

then on the credit agreement

1. Parties

The parties to this agreement are Bank of Sotland Plc (then their address) and - (this is where the other persons name and address appear

plus info on credit amount and credit interest

 

The pages of this have been stapled together wherea the rest of the papers are seperate.

 

Do you get my drift?

 

MM

[the_shadow]

Regarding the other persons info, this looks like it has been sent by mistake, the letter states :- Enclosed is a copy of the signed agreement.

then on the credit agreement

1. Parties

The parties to this agreement are Bank of Sotland Plc (then their address) and - (this is where the other persons name and address appear

plus info on credit amount and credit interest

 

The pages of this have been stapled together wherea the rest of the papers are seperate.

 

Do you get my drift?

 

MM

 

Yep Ok, as stated this should be good to mention in the defence as a) It shows the lack of due care and attention they have shown and b) most importantly in my opinion the fact they have provided different agreements in the past means you are unsure of what they are claiming is the executed agreement that this case will be relying on... hopefully should push the judge to order disclosure if nothing comes back from the cpr 31.14 letter

 

S.

[mooiismum]

Yep Ok, as stated this should be good to mention in the defence as a) It shows the lack of due care and attention they have shown and b) most importantly in my opinion the fact they have provided different agreements in the past means you are unsure of what they are claiming is the executed agreement that this case will be relying on... hopefully should push the judge to order disclosure if nothing comes back from the cpr 31.14 letter

 

S.

 

Thanks S, I think they've got so many of these to deal with they are making BIG mistakes, so the more people that send off for copies of their agreements o all banks & loan companies, the better for everyone,

 

How do you write a defence please? I & OH haven't a clue, & I'd like to get it done, as I hate doing things at the last minute, due to my health problems, it will start off my panic attacks. Is there copy one posted on here that we could look at to glean some info from please. Wording ect.

All help with be grately appreciated.

 

MM

[Bazooka Boo]

I have no idea on how to word or write a defence, but I did ask the national debtline about an OC taking legal action against an alleged debtor, and the replied with the following:

If your creditor does not send you a copy of your agreement and statement of account, within 12 working days of receiving your request (and payment), then they are not allowed to take further action against you to enforce the agreement until they do so.

 

However, a creditor may still begin county court action as starting proceedings against you is not classed as enforcement. Enforcement would be things like bailiff action or applying for an attachment of earnings or charging orders.

 

If a creditor starts proceedings, you should receive the paperwork in the post, at which point you will be given an opportunity to defend the claim if you dispute it (we would strongly recommend taking legal advice before filling a defence). You will find information on the process of defending a claim on the attached fact sheet ‘replying to a county court claim form’

 

You may attempt to defend the claim on the grounds that a s.77/78 CCA request was not complied with, however if the creditor can provide the court with the agreement, the proceedings may go ahead. If the creditor cannot provide a copy of the agreement, the court does not normally dismiss the claim, but puts it on hold for the information to be provided.

 

If the creditor starts proceedings without supplying you with the requested agreement, but they are able to supply the court with the agreement, you may have grounds to request that they should pay for any additional court costs. You should argue that they have not complied with the ‘Practice Direction’.

 

The Practice Direction describes the conduct that the court will expect of all parties before court action begins. One of the main principles of the Practice Direction is that all parties should exchange sufficient information with each other to allow them to understand the other's position. This should allow both parties to make informed decisions about how to proceed.

Hopefully the attachement should work also? If not let us know and I will try it again.

Replying to a county court claim form.pdf

Edited September 28, 2009 by Bazooka Boo
Sober Typo!

[the_shadow]

I would just say that the article from the national debtline is not in my opinion correct, court proceedings are enforcement I believe and they are relying on the Rankine judgment to state that comment that they are not. This can be countered by common sense and indeed the judiciary generally deem Rankine a bad judgement unless it suits their purpose to ignore

 

I'll post up a copy of a embarrassed defence tomorrow and you'll have time to edit/tailor it to your needs.

 

S.

[mooiismum]

HI Boo, thank you for the link I will download it later. I did, however find on here a "help with court claim" I did a search and although I don't remember the name exactly is was PT2??? something or other that had aupplied it, that date was March 2008, may you could look? OH is really worring about it which is making his depression worse, he's not slept for nights and nights. I try to stay calm and tell him everything'll be alright, but it's all very scarey wondering what could happen, but they've not sent proper docs, dates don't match, & they sent someone else's agreement, so he hopes it will go his way. Life just became all too much at one point and hence all this.

 

MM

[mooiismum]

Thank you Shadow for replying to this,

 

We will be most grateful for this. We've found so much comfort in joining this forum, and wouldn't have known what to do without all the brilliant advise so freely given. It really has helped us stay moderately sane

 

MM

[the_shadow]

Ok Embarrassed Defence

 

 

IN THE XXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NO.XXXXXXXX

 

Between

[HBOS]

Claimant

and

MOOISSMUM OH

Defendant

 

 

1. I, Mooissmum's OH of ************** make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by HBOS
   
2. The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR.
   
3. Defendant notes that Under CPR 16 part 7.3 “where a claim is based upon a written agreement; (1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached or served with the particulars of claim”, no such document or contract was attached to the Particulars of claim served by the claimant.
   
4. A request under CPR 31.14 has been sent to the claimant’s solicitors on xx/xx/xxxx requesting information that the claimant will rely on. The Claimant has had more than enough time prior to this defence being filed to meet its requirements under CPR 31.14.
   
5. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit, the defendant asks to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely upon.
   
6. Further to that above 5 paragraphs, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.
   

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I xxxxxxxxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

Signed .....................

 

 

Dated this xx day of xxxxxx, 2009

 

 

Thinking about it... it might be worth keeping the breach of DPA to the s78 request in the hat for the amended defence.

 

 

S.

[mooiismum]

Thank you for this Shadow, it is very much appreciated.

OH is now off sick from work due to the worry& stress of all this, his doctor is very concerned. It has really taken a toll on his health, I've never ever seen him in this state, no matter what life has thrown at us and believe me we've had more than most to deal with over the years. I'll get the defence ready on file, it can then be amended, if necessary, before it's due date. I can't see him being able to attend court with his health problems.

 

Thank you once again, I'll keep posting as & when things happen

 

regards

MM