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    • Spoke to my SIL a short while ago Andy and he had the following to say.....     No, he had left their employment by this time, in fact he left January of this year.     August 2013 up until January 2020     Yes, in fact he had a staff MORE card.     He laughed and said "Hell Yes" This even extended to the pubs deputy manageress whom he described as the worst offender and knew that my SIL was doing it as well as other staff members.   There is a story here....   He told me that after he had left, the company fraud guys came in to do an audit with her unofficially being the main target. He has an idea that she may well have been caught with her hand in the till and so she sang like a canary to save her own arse.
    • this is what shell have just sent me in email, confirming mistakes were made it the final response / deadlock letter, they are only telling me this now, 6 months after the deadlock letter was sent to me and long after court action started   please is the actual deadlock letter binding, or can they just noll and void it like this?   Thank you for taking the time to speak with me this evening regarding your account. As agreed, I am emailing you with the details of what was discussed during our phone call so you have a copy in writing. I advised that you previously had an account with Shell Energy (formerly First Utility) for property  and this has an outstanding debit balance of £187.24. However, due to the age of the account and when the invoice was produced on this account, this balance is being cleared. This balance will be cleared within 10 working days and the account will be closed at a zero balance. In regards to account  I advised that back billing credit of £630.45 that was applied in April 2020 was applied in error and was later withdrawn. I explained that the reason it was applied in error is because the back billing period this amount was calculated for, is the same period that the back billing was previously calculated for and a credit applied to the account in February 2017, with the amount of £1192.32 being applied to the energy account. I advised that at the time the deadlock letter was written, the information within this letter was accurate based on the account at that point. After receiving the deadlock letter, you then escalated your case to the Ombudsman. It was at this point, an agent investigated your case and realised that the back billing credit of £630.45 was applied in error. This was addressed within the Ombudsman's findings in writing and they confirmed that the £630.45 was an error and it is correct in being removed, leaving the account balance at £644.48 which is valid and liable to be paid. I appreciate that you have advised the Ombudsman case is null and void as you did not accept their decision and you are right in saying that the actual final decision that they issued was non-binding upon Shell Energy. However, this does not change the outcome of their findings or the fact that the back billing credit of £630.45 was not due to the account. You queried if our call was recorded as you would need it for a judge, to which I confirmed it was recorded. If you want me to raise a SAR for a copy of this call recording, please do not hesitate to reply directly to this email and let me know and I can arrange this for you. I advised that as your case has now been escalated to Shakespeare, legal fees have now been incurred. I advised of the breakdown of these fees: Legal representative cost £70 , Court fee £60 and interest £146.06. I also confirmed that these legal fees were on top of the account debit balance, resulting in an overall balance of £920.54. As discussed, due to the case now being with Shakespeare, I am unable to offer any settlement figure internally. However, I can arrange for Shakespeare to call you directly to discuss your account and options available. You queried if they would be able offer/discuss a settlement figure/payment plan, to which I confirmed that I could not comment on this as I do not know their process, however they will be able to discuss the options in more detail with you directly. As agreed, I will arrange for Shakespeare to call you tomorrow; Friday 27th November 2020. If they are unable to get hold of you, they should be able to leave a voicemail for you. During our call, you also queried who would appear in court to represent Shell, whether it would be a member of staff directly from Shell or whether it would be a representative from Shakespeare on our behalf. I have gone away and spoken to our legal team who have confirmed that it would be Shakespeare who would lead with a representative on behalf of Shell. I hope the information in this email clarifies our position. As advised within our phone call, I am genuinely sorry for the shortfalls you have experienced and I fully appreciate the frustration this has caused. As above, if you would like to request a copy of our call recoding from today, please not hesitate to let me know and I can raise a SAR for this. You can reply directly to this email or you can call on 0330 094 9158. Our lines are open Monday to Friday, 9:00am to 6:00pm. Please note that my working days are Wednesday to Friday each week. Yours sincerely,  
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Tesco/RBS CCA then CPR request

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Can you or anyone give me some more advise?


Having requested a CCA agreement from Tesco/RBS. They sent me the usual copy of the application form and a copy of terms & cond. I have since send a CRP request using a template from the site. I had a response on 23/06/09 from them telling me that they have complied. They also advised that this was their final response.


So, I have now complained to FOS, complained to my Local Trading Standards, (I have a meeting with them on 16/07/09) will post outcome later and have emailled my MP & AM (I live in Wales)


I'm quite happy to take this all the way to court, but I want to do it correctly. The debt is under 5K so should I put it through the small claims court?


I guess the next stage is sending a LETTER BEFORE ACTION using the CPR rules. I've spent hours reading various posts, there are some templates on the site, but I'm a bit unsure about my specific case, so can anyone suggest a letter for me to send?


They have defaulted me; I am on reduced payments & no interest.


1/ I want to threaten court action for disclosure (CCA agreement) but what do I quote?

2/ I want to advise them that I believe they don't have a enforceable agreement.

3/ I want to tell them to stop processing my data (but I understand that you need to need to deal with the unenforceable issue first)

4/ Steve 4064 pointed out: that if a lender send the terms & conditions and application form then under the CCA rules the account is NOT in dispute. They have complied, but the agreement is unenforceable as they have not produced an enforceable agreement that has all the prescribed terms, signature etc.


All a bit complicated for a non legal brain! :confused:


Hope you guys can help :-) GM

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It serves no useful purpose whatsoever to send any letters to OC's/DCA's once a CCA request has been made! In fact, if anything it will have a detrimental effect on your case! I have been making this point till I'm blue in the face and unfortunately some people on here are giving contrary advice, when they know nothing about the litigation process! Nobody can afford to take a narrow view of a situation once pmt problems start, you have to look ahead from a well rounded perspective. Hence why I say start preparing for a Court claim to be issued from day one!


Consider the following two scenarios:


A CCA request is sent to an OC. They don't comply either with the 12 w/d . Having been told by people on here to pester the life out of the OC/DCA until you get an agreement or confirmation that one no longer exists, you start firing off letters. Within 2 months (for example) and after various letters you've sent, they provide you with an agreement. Lets for arguments sake assume it's enforceable, they then issue a claim and get Judgment, because aside from a few penalty charges totalling £300, you don't have a case against them, The fact that they didn't provide the agreement for 3mnths, is neither here nor there. So it's all over, they win and you end up paying them forever and a day and if you're really lucky they'll put a Charging Order on your

property for good measure!


Then there's the second scenario that for some bizarre reason posters dont understand:-


The CCA request is sent to the OC and the deadlines come and go and they don't respond, in fact by all appearances the request has been completely ignored, which is great news, it's time to start monitoring everything the OC does! They send all manner of threatening letters and phone calls are being received 6 days a week, on average 8 times a day, all logged of course! You answer the calls, but refuse to go through security and tell them each time they ring to put everything in writing. You don't mention the CCA request on the phone, in fact you don't tell them anything about laws they've broken, you simply carry on making a record of all calls and in particular any abuse you're subjected to. The calls continue for 6mnths and then they stop suddenly. They sell the debt on to one of the lovely DCA's, having still not provided the agreement, but we're not remotely concerned about that! They start bombading you with letters and calls, both of which are much more threatening. You continue doing what you did with the OC. After 5mnths, they issue a Court claim. In your Defence you can confidently state that you requested an agreement 11mnths ago, (which you can prove because you have the g/d slip and it was signed for on ???) which hasn't been furnished. So, the OC has unlawfully sold the alleged debt on whilst being in default of the request and that's for starters..... You have been unlawfully harassed by letter and phone by both the OC/DCA in the absence of an agreement. The DCA has processed your personal info unlawfully under the Data Protection Act 1998, as they had no legal right to do so because the OC had no legal right to sell the debt. There are other offences under the Data Protection Act 98 also, but I haven't got time to list them all! lol You haven't been provided with a DoA, so they haven't proved a right to issue a claim. The NoA wasn't sent to you, so they can't enforce the alleged debt. When they do provide it, (as part of the proceedings) it's incorrect, so therefore unlawful on that basis also. It is a breach of confidence that your personal info has been provided to the DCA, which you can claim damages for. It is also an invasion of your privacy, which is covered by the Human Rights Act (HRA). They eventually get round to providing the agreement and it is enforceable, but it doesn't matter, they can't get round the DoA or NoA, so they're screwed-oh dear! So as well as having a watertight defence, you have a c/c for harassment, breaches under the Data Protection Act, HRA and breach of confidence for which you will be seeking substantial damages of course!


If it turns out to be case that the agreement isn't enforceable or no longer exists, then both the OC and DCA are in even bigger trouble, as neither of them have any legal right to process your personal info and you have been harassed for a debt that doesn't even exist! I think that damages claim has just increased even more.....! Oh and not forgetting, there is the small matter of the "agreement" not being produced in 11mnths or at all! Which is going to look worse to a Judge, an agreement not produced in 3mnths or 11mnths? And, by the same token what looks worse, an unenforceable agreement (UA) produced after nearly a year, accompanied by harassment and all the other unlawful acts, or a UA produced after three mnths, at which point a claim is issued, which deprives you of the opportunity of building a case against the OC?


So it all comes back to the issue of what to do when a creditor doesn't comply with a CCA request and the answer is simple.... do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! Ignore the advice of anyone who tells you otherwise, they don't know what they're talking about!



Sorry its a bit long but hope this explains my approach on how to deal with the process





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Hi Andy,


Thanks for the reply,


I do have several cards to deal with and have done nothing further to date, so I am going to try your suggestion with at least one claim. Have you or anyone else used the radical method you described and 'won'?


I total see where your coming from and with my limited understanding of the legal proccess it makes perfect sense.


However, I've started the ball rolling and I want to deal with it as quickly as possible without the lenders taking legal action against me, rather I am going to take action against them. I sent a CCA request some time ago and more recently sent them a CRP request. Importantly for me, I was hoping to avoid having to deal with DCA's as well as wrecking my credit score/file any further.


Thanks for the advise will keep you informed.


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