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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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cupcake68 Vs Virgin **DISCONTINUED**


cupcake68
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Hi Steven

 

Thanks for replying.

 

Does that mean this one is too? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/194039-cupcake68-virgin-2.html

 

You will see from the thread that I was under the impression it's not but now obviously I'm beginning to wonder!

 

Thanks

 

CC68

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Thanks again Steven.

 

Obviously I appreciate this site enormously because without it I don't know where I would be but I am now really concerned about what I have read (and thought I had learnt) from it.

 

I am now really worried that I have taken advice and it's not nesessarily correct and also read other posts that have been incorrect!

 

CC68

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Have a look at the link in my signature about the enforceability of agreements - hopefully all is explained there.

 

Have you acted on advice you now doubt?

 

 

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Yes I think I may have!

 

My trouble is I did not know about any of this four months ago. Because of my situation I have had to do 30 CCA's at the same time and I am both desperate to find a solution to it all but equally terrified of making my situation worse!

 

I know doubt what I have been told and what I have learnt and think maybe I have just made everything worse!

 

Maybe I'll be a bit more positive tomorrrow!

 

Sorry!

 

CC68

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Perhaps you can give a quick resume of your situation, what you have asked for and what you have done with it. A fresh pair of eye may see things more clearly

 

I know you have several threads - normally we advise this as people with experience of different companies can help. From the sound of it, though, in your case an overview of the whole may be helpful.

 

 

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We have a very nasty 2nd charge on our property, not only high interest rate but also particularly difficult terms and conditions.

 

These include having the right to withdraw the loan if we come to an agreement with our creditors!

 

We also have a very high outstanding debt on our credit cards 30 cards in total.

 

Therefore after being offered (the rankines co) to sell my credit card debts (which sounded really dodgey!) I found this site which opened my eyes to the unenforceability issues of many older cards (which most of ours are) I requested a copy of all our cards CCA's in March.

 

We had never missed a payment before then but were unable to make the minimum payments required in March.

 

Of all the CCA's we've had back and all the fantastic advice I have been given so far we have been advised that only 2 of them are enforceable.

 

I have had several DN during the last few weeks all of which I have been advised are defective in one way or another.

 

I have been very careful to keep all the files seperate to try not confuse things but I am still very unsure about whether I have grasped things correctly so have been relying on kind offers of advice on each thread and have followed the advice to the letter.

 

After posting these two MBNA ones today and you telling me this one (I did think the other might have had all the necessary on it) I have come to doubt all the other advice I have taken.

 

I feel really bad because this site is all about people teaching each other but I now don't really know which way to turn again!

 

Thanks for your time

 

CC68

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THanks for that.

 

I will give you some simple tests to apply to your agreements to check the enforceability, and then something about DNs.

 

Agreements

 

Firstly, we distinguish between what constitutes a valid reply to a request under s78(1), what constitutes a properly executed agreement and what constitues an enforceable agreement - and people often get these 3 things confused.

 

However, there is a 'bottom line' defined in s127 of the CCA 1974. To be enforceable, an agreement must consist of a single document, which contains your signature and the prescribed terms and your right to cancel. For a credit card the prescribed terms are a statement about the credit limit, a statement about repayment terms and a statement about the interest rate.

 

If any of these conditions is not met, the agreement is not enforceable.

 

All these requirements are laid down in h the CCA 1974 and associated regulations and cannot be varied. The main question is about what does a single document mean? IMO it means a single piece of paper, maybe double-sided. Often a copy will actually be two pieces of paper (a copy of each side) - I think a court would say this was a single document if the balance of probabilities was that the two pieces of paper belonged together. Normally, this is fairly obvious. For example, if they are not the same size, then the balance of probabilities is that they do not belong together, and so on.

 

DNs

 

The wording and layout of DNs is laid down in great detail in the regulations. Where creditors get it wrong are mainly (but not always) in one of 4 areas:

 

1. the get the amount of the debt wrong

 

2. they don't properly spell out the breach of the agreement that you are supposed to have committed

 

2. they don't allow 14 clear days for the breach to be remedied. Usually, they forget that the law says that a notice is deemed served on the second working day after it is posted and they have to allow 14 days after that. So they will post it on a Friday, forgetting that it is not then deemed served until the Tuesday or they will say something like "fourteen days from the date of this notice"

 

3. They give the remedial action as "repayment of the sum in full" - they are only allowed to demand full repayment if they terminate the account and they are only allowed to do that if the breach is not remedied within 14 days - circular argument

 

Hope this helps

 

 

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/205714-cupcake-mbna-him.html

 

I'm totally confused (and scared!) by all this now.

 

Any help is really appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Cupcake

 

well the creditor themselves have freely admitted that the document sent to you is "not very clear"

 

they are required by law under the cancellation notices and copy of document regulations 1983 (2) to provide "easily legible " copies

 

therefore by their own admission they are in default and can neither enforce or add charges/interest nor give information to 3rd parties

 

why don't you concentrate their minds on this little failing as until the do provide you with easily legible copies they remain in dispute

 

you could also use this as a lever by suggesting that if they have difficulty providing an easily legible copy they should arrange he original agreement to have the original agreement sent to an office near to you where you can inspect it

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Thanks for looking DD

 

I think I have made a bit of a mistake in what I have learnt.

 

What is the diference between an improperly executed agreement and an unenforceable one?

 

The CCA they sent me was not terribly clear but I could just about read it so I don't know how much point there is in saying it's not clear (I'm actually surprised they even mentioned it wasn't clear!)

 

So...!

 

You are right it does say Credit Agreement not credit card agreement under the title - application form and as I said in post 43 there are a couple of other points but what I don't know is if they are enough?

 

Thanks again

 

cupcake

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in a nutshell

 

 

an improperly executed agreement is one that contains a MINOR mistake or ommission which renders the agreement enforceable only by order of a court such as wrong heading, misspelt name , lack of creditors signature etc

 

However for agreements entered into before April 2007 if the creditor has failed to ensure that the prescribed terms are within the 4 corners of the signed agreement then sec7 127(3) prevents the court from being able to put the fault right or make it enforceable.

 

this rule was changed he 2006 revisions and agreements entered into after april 2007 which fall foul of these rules will be considered individually on their merits.

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Thanks for looking DD

 

I think I have made a bit of a mistake in what I have learnt.

 

What is the diference between an improperly executed agreement and an unenforceable one?

 

The CCA they sent me was not terribly clear but I could just about read it so I don't know how much point there is in saying it's not clear (I'm actually surprised they even mentioned it wasn't clear!)

 

So...!

 

You are right it does say Credit Agreement not credit card agreement under the title - application form and as I said in post 43 there are a couple of other points but what I don't know is if they are enough?

 

Thanks again

 

cupcake

 

the legistation (unlike the agreement you have ) is CRYSTAL CLEAR

 

it cannot be legigble just legible barely legible largely legible it has to be

 

EASILY LEGIBLE

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SO!

 

The fact that they are admitting in their covering letter that it is "not very clear" puts them on the back foot?

 

So do I need to worry that I have sent that letter or shall I just wait to see what they do in reply?

 

Cupcake

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Also!

 

The other minor things like not saying credit card agreement enough to make it improperly executed?

 

What about the mention of section 11 when there is no section 11 on the page?

 

And the other mention of the seperate t and c's - is that allowed?

 

cupcake

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