Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cfc90]

Hey i hope som1 out there can help me. Its the oyster cards n im soooooooooo confused. I was applying for a student oyster card, but there was no application forms so you had 2 do it through the net, but there system was down. So i decided to borrow my girlfriends for 1 week to use it 2 travel 2 uni. N nowing my luck, they caught me. The police cautioned me with only 1 charge, which is fraudery. n i gt copies of that cation. But now a month later they postd me a letter sayin i have 2 appear in court, and must pay £100.... although I payed the fair need, but under her card. I dnt mind da caution or the £100, but im wonderin wuld they give me a criminal record. N if yes how much wuld it last 4, bcz i heard it can expire or somfin

 

But plzzzzz i beg of u help, i have 2 b at court on da 7 may

[Last of the Mohicans]

From what I can understand (being only partly up to speed on texting ) you knowingly used somebody elses card, and were caught doing so.

Bluntly, I'd say on the face of it: you're bang to rights, and ought to take whatever rogering you're in for as sweetly and humbly as you can in order to minimise collateral damage.

My reading of it overall: the more you wriggle, the deeper the hook will go. Be as sorry as it gets, and you'll maybe get a fine and a slapped wrist. Get bolshie and they'll hang you out to dry.

And for lawks sake keep your girly sweet - if she turns on you and states you used it without her authority they'll likely throw the book at you.

[cfc90]

fanks 4 da replyy but daoes dat mean i wuld get a criminal record, although i gt the fine

[maroondevo52]

Threads merged...........

 

cfc90, please stick to this thread on this subject.

 

Thanks.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[cfc90]

sorry im new 2 dis forum fing, dis was ma first time, so dat means dat i dnt really no wot threads merged means, or how 2 do it sorii yh

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

No problem, It's easier for people to help you if they can see what replies you've had to your question, so keeping to one thread, helps

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[WelshMam2009]

Are you going to a civil or criminal court...they might give you your answer!!

[cfc90]

Sorri i dnt no which 1 im doin, but they sent me a summons letter, statin that i would have 2 appear in court. Or i can send the letter of pleading guilty, there fore im not needed to actually attend the court

 

If this helps its the Wimbledon Magistrates court- baring in my i have alredi been given a caution for this case

[SRPO]

You were not given a caution, you were cautioned before interview under PACE, two very different things.

PAYG Oystercards are transferable but cannot be used on most National Rail trains, all other oystercards are not transferable.

This gives you some mitigation, but not a defence.

Telephone the prosecuting authority (the number will be on the summons) & state your case to them, they may decide to offer you a penalty fare rather than go to court.

I hpe dis as bin of elp.

[cfc90]

So Basically are u sayin that i wont be given a CRIMINAL record, just a fine

[Old-CodJA]

So Basically are u sayin that i wont be given a CRIMINAL record, just a fine

 

No, that is not what SRPO is saying.

 

It seems that you are getting a little confused with some of the details so I will run through a general description of such cases:

 

Firstly, a wholly Pay-as-you-go Oyster can be transferred from one person to another. Any other type cannot.

 

The process after being found out is as follows:

 

1. You were cautioned by the person that conducted the interview.

 

2. A statement has been given to the rail company's prosecutor's office that alleges the offence. Bear with me because when summonses are issued the wording may not always be exactly the same, but the essence of the charge will be and you have made clear that a summons has now been sent to you.

 

If my understanding of what you seem to be saying is correct, you will have been charged that, contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889) you did travel on a railway without a valid ticket indicating that your fare had been paid and with the intention of avoiding payment of the fare that was due. (or words to that effect)

 

Before anyone jumps in and tells me that a valid ticket was held, that is not the case. Legal precedent records that a season ticket (which includes a 'named' Oyster) is issued solely for use of the person named thereon and although the rail company may not lose anything if a traveller uses his wife's season ticket for example, his fare has not been paid and the offence is therefore committed.

 

3. The summons will tell you when and where your case will be put before the Court and will include reference to the fare that is outstanding and the amount of costs that the prosecutor is asking the Court to order you to pay if you are convicted. (The costs application is likely to be the £100 figure that you referred to and which you have seen on the summons.)

 

4. You should have received a copy of the statement referred to above, a

plea form' and a 'statement of means' form in the pack that you received with your Summons to Court.

 

5. a) You can elect to plead guilty and ask the Magistrates to deal with your case without attending Court. If you do that you can send with your completed 'plea form' a letter setting out factors that you wish the Court to take into account as mitigation. You will be convicted of the offence and there will be a record of the conviction. You will probably be ordered to pay a fine and may be ordered to pay the prosecutors' costs and the fare, plus a victinm surcharge imposed by the government.

 

If you do not complete the statement of means when you send in your plea, the Court will assume that you have a weekly income of £350.00 and any fine will be fixed accordingly

 

b) You can plead not guilty and the Court will usually adjourn the hearing to a later date when a trial will take place. You will have to attend and the rail company will have to produce their full evidence, which you can then challenge if you wish. This will usually include the person who put in the report being called to give evidence to the Court on oath and you will have the chance to question him / her. You will also have the chance to put your version of events to the Court if you wish to do so and can be questioned by the prosecutor. If you are convicted after pleading not guilty the result will be as before, but you could expect to be ordered to pay a higher fine.

 

For what it's worth, I would strongly advise that you write to the prosecutor's office promptly as advised by SRPO and to ask whether you can be allowed to settle this matter out of Court.

 

The rail company may allow you to make a payment to close this case without troubling the Court further, but they are not forced to do so.

 

You should apologise for the act and hope that they are feeling benevolent is my advice. It seems to me that is the only way that you are going to avoid a record of conviction.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[cfc90]

Thank for that so much... i appreciate it, but i also got another question if i was to write to tfl, what address would i send it to, and considering that i am a student approx how much do u think the fine is. N once again much appreciated .

 

And also if i plead guilty striaght away, pay the £100, what next

[Old-CodJA]

No, it seems that you are still getting confused.

 

If you plead guilty the Court will tell you how much you have to pay.

 

The £100 that you have read is only advice of how much the prosecutor will ask the Magistrates to order you to pay in costs. It is not a fine and it has not been ordered if your case has not yet gone to Court.

 

Who sent you the Summons?

 

It is not likely to be TfL. It could be either one of the train operating companies or their agents or, London Underground limited.

 

Who issued the Summons will depend on where you were actually travelling from and to?

 

Check who it is on the Summons and that is the company who you need to write to.

[cfc90]

Its from the Wimbledon Magistrates, and doesn't clearly state who its from, but there's also another page saying me vs Transport For London, so i presume its from tfl.

 

So the £100 is for the court alone, and if i plead guilty and dont attend court would i still need to pay them £100

 

ps. im sorry, ive never studied law

[Old-CodJA]

OK, so it says Transport for London v 'Your name'

 

Then it is TfL who have issued the summons and therefore the address you should write to will be on the summons.

 

No, sorry if you cannot understand this, it isn't a case of not having studied law but, I'll try explaining it another way. You have not received a payment demand yet.

 

TfL are telling you that if you are convicted they will ask the Court to order you pay their £100 costs of bringing the case to court on top of any fine and compensation that the Magistrates might decide you must pay.

 

Until the Court have heard the case you have not been ordered to pay anything.

 

You should not send any payment unless you get another letter saying they agree to settle out of court.

[cfc90]

ohhhhhhhhhhhh thanks for that...considering that i am a student, how much do u think the fine + compensation would be. Also i want to no if i am convicted to pay up, would they give me a criminal record. and if so, is this criminal record forever, because a friend of mine had a criminal record that lasted 6 years but for a different crime.

[Old-CodJA]

I really think you ought to read through another thread on here.

 

If you read the thread titled £253.30 rail fine!!!!! Help please! I think you'll get a clearer picture of the process and will understand the fines process better.

 

If you plead guilty or, plead not guilty and then get convicted, there will be a record on the Court file, but this is not as serious as conviction for what are known as 'recordable offences'.

 

I do not want to confuse you further so will stop at that for now.

 

In short, if you are convicted in a Magistrates Court of an offence for which there is an ultimate sanction of imprisonment, yes, there will be a record. For these minor matters known as 'Summary Offences', convictions are usually considered spent after a short period of time, but the much more serious 'recordable' matters stay on file for longer and in some cases, for life.

[cfc90]

Thanks Old-CodJA we've been through a lot n i want to thank u again. Its just that i am studying and don't want to damage my future career chances (civil engineering).

 

But thanks again n trully appreciated. Im going this monday and get it sorted