B'card have NOT responded to our £1 sent Mar 3rd, do we need to send a letter?

[charlie*]

There is sooo much fantastic info in this place now, it's very hard to find the right letters to send..... so, anyone, be grateful for some pointers

 

My son sent £1 for Barclaycard CCA on March 3rd, but having stopped paying he has only received default notices and threats - nothing else and we'd like to 'get them before they get him' - if you see what I mean.

 

Can anyone point us to the follow ups

 

Many thanks...

 

charlie

[cerberusalert]

Here you go

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[charlie*]

Hi cerbarusalert... crikey, that's a mouthfull -

 

Thankyou very much indeed for the letter above, I shall be sending it off today.

 

I'm also watching your postings under...

 

"Is Tesco cca enforceable" (25th March) 'cos my missus as one just like it except it was thru the mail, not a tear off slip - no prescribed terms, no rererences to anything else.... just trying to pluck up the courage to send that letter - not my debt you see, it's hers indoors and I'd be loathe to drop her in the mire.

 

So, for those comments and help, thank you again

 

charlie

[charlie*]

Sorry, mistake here...

Edited March 30, 2009 by charlie*

[cerberusalert]

I'm not convinced that those two sheets form the same agreement, i.e., front and reverse. The second sheet looks larger than the first.

[charlie*]

cerbarusalert.....

 

not sure what you are referring to in your post above....

I did post copies of a cca in the post about Sainsbury's...

could you possible have got mixed up

 

Thanks,

 

charlie*

[cerberusalert]

cerbarusalert.....

 

not sure what you are referring to in your post above....

I did post copies of a cca in the post about Sainsbury's...

could you possible have got mixed up

 

Thanks,

 

charlie*

 

Sorry it's my fault, I was referring to your post.

[charlie*]

cerbarusalert.....

 

Okay...

 

Thanks,

 

Tis all very confusing.

 

charlie*

[charlie*]

cerbarusalert.... whilst things seem to be fairly quiet (looks like to me) and you are online, would you be kind enough to look at the Sainsbury's sig form... it's on page 2 half way down right now... under

 

Can I have some expert advice on a Sainsbury credit card please.

 

By the way, I sent of your suggested letter... just wait and see now

 

Many thanks indeed.

 

charlie*

[cerberusalert]

You mean this? Sain 2 picture by js30 - Photobucket

 

The more I look at it the less convinced I am that these two pages are related to the same document. Besides the fact that they seem to be two different sizes, the signature page refers to itself as an 'application' in the top left corner under 'Sainsburys bank credit card'.

[charlie*]

I have another Sainsbury's 'App form' - and the alleged 'overleaf' details referred to adjacent to my pencilled in arrow on the app form and this one is a perfect print - same info, slightly different layout, dated July 04 (the one onscreen is 2003) and it fits perfectly with a 1/4" margin round an A4 sheet. So, I dunno, I have nothing else to go by.

 

Yes, I had seen the words 'application' - but, as ammunition does that have any value?.... especially, IF the Agreement and Conditions are printed on the reverse side, then surely, reference to them (ie my arrow indicating quote; (as set out overleaf and as amended from time to time) unquote must be detrimental to the cause - perhaps even making the paper enforceable - maybe - hope not

 

If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

 

Obliged to you and many thanks,

 

charlie*

[cerberusalert]

Try them with this and see what their response is;

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.To clarify, just sending the Application Form & Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;And more importantly Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the dispute continues

 

Yours faithfully

[charlie*]

Well, I will certainly be writing to Sainsbury in the morning... see what it brings

 

Keeping on saying 'thankyou' although seemingly inadequate, is all we can manage in a place such as this.

 

Thank you

 

charlie*