Trust Deed - CRA Defaults - Debt Sold Arghhh

[marcellep]

Looking for some help!

 

I signed in to a Trust Deed on the 28th Day of Nov 2005. Now I have paid it all off and have confirmation to support this. Which I am now sending to CRA's

 

Today I checked my credit through annualcreditreport.co.uk I seen that I had 2 defaults from Arrow Global.

 

So I called them on a freephone number and they advised this debt was sold to them back in July 2008 and that it was from Orange PLC.

 

The defaults where applied back in Nov 2008

 

So here are the facts:

 

Orange where included in my trust deed and have since had a payout!

The defaults was applied to my CR when my trust deed was protected.

 

I called this company today and they where alarmed that I had a TD and said they had been mis-sold the debt by Orange.

 

What can I do from here?

 

Can I get the defualt off?

 

How can Orange sell a debt that is in my TD

 

Thanks for any help

[rory32]

The issue of misselling is a matter between Orange and Arrow Global. If Arrow contact you regarding this matter again asking for payment then make complaints to Trading Standards and the OFT.

 

Removing the defaults should be quite straightforward. I would write to the CRA and Arrow and inform them that the defaults have been added unlawfully as the debts no longer exist and if they are not removed you will be considering legal action against them.

[marcellep]

Thanks so much!

 

We I spoken to Arrow Global they agreed that they has been miss sold the debt and would look in to it.

 

I have also sent a letter today telling them if the default is not removed asap I will seek legal advice

 

 

Hopefully when they get them removed I only need to fight capital one now

[rory32]

You should also make a complaint to to the CRA as they have a legal obligation to ensure that the information they hold is accurate. You can not be defaulted for the same account twice and any default on the account should be reported in a timely manner. Clearly a default that is registered years later does not fulfill this criteria. You should also consider a complaint to the ICO.

[marcellep]

You should also make a complaint to to the CRA as they have a legal obligation to ensure that the information they hold is accurate. You can not be defaulted for the same account twice and any default on the account should be reported in a timely manner. Clearly a default that is registered years later does not fulfill this criteria. You should also consider a complaint to the ICO.

 

Thanks so much for that information, What I will do is await a reply from the company and see what they say. If they do not agree to remove it then I will take it to the next step. :-|

 

Thanks again

[marcellep]

Update! Both defaults now removed

 

Thanks so much

 

Now all I need to do is fight Capital one and thats mt Cra's clear

[rory32]

Well done

[marcellep]

Help needed again!

 

I am still arguing with Capital one regarding my default, I have been in talks with them and they said to me last Thurs that they have sent me a copy of my orginal default. Still waiting on that.........

 

Now when I started to question the default I also contacted all CRA's to inform them that I was disputing the default. I got a reply from Equifax today

 

Dear Marcellep

 

Thank you for your recent enquiry.

 

Credit Agreements - Capital One Bank (Europe) Plc

 

As Equifax has not yet received a response to your query, we have removed this account from your credit report until we get a reply from the company. We will contact you again once they have informed us of the outcome of their investigation.

 

The note previously added to your credit report, stating that your information was in dispute has now been removed.

 

If you require further information on the content of your credit file, you may wish to visit: https://equifaxuk.custhelp.com. Here you can view our Frequently Asked Questions and submit an on-line query or attach supporting documentation via our "Ask a Question" facility, with no concerns about postal delays.

 

We hope the above details are of assistance to you.

 

Equifax Customer Services

I am sorry to sound stupid but what does this mean? Is that it over and the default has been removed?

 

Thanks again

[rory32]

What it means is currently they have removed all of the information regarding this account from your credit file including the default. They may reinstate this information if Cap One get in touch with them and sustantiate the default (unlikely knowing Cap One). Equifax will inform you if this happens.

[marcellep]

What it means is currently they have removed all of the information regarding this account from your credit file including the default. They may reinstate this information if Cap One get in touch with them and sustantiate the default (unlikely knowing Cap One). Equifax will inform you if this happens.

 

Thanks so much for your response,

 

What I find really strange is that I got an email from Experian a few weeks ago saying

 

Our Ref: XXX/XXXXXXXX/PC

 

Dear Marcellep

 

Further to our recent correspondence, I have been contacted by Capital One (C6 credit report dated 28/02/09). They have confirmed that the details we hold are accurate and have requested that we retain the information on our database. Unfortunately I am unable to amend this information without the authorisation of the company in question.

 

The 'Notice of Dispute' will remain on your report for 28 days. It will then be removed, unless I receive further notification from you:

 

"THE CONSUMER HAS DISPUTED THE ACCURACY OF THIS ENTRY AND WE HAVE THEREFORE ASKED THE PROVIDER TO INVESTIGATE IT. GIVEN THAT THIS DATA IS DISPUTED, PLEASE TAKE CARE IF MAKING AN ASSESSMENT OF ANY KIND THAT MAY INCLUDE THIS DATA."

 

If you have any further queries or wish to discuss this further, may I suggest you contact the company concerned direct at the following address:

 

Capital One: Capital One Services, PO Box 5282, Nottingham, NG2 3YH

 

Kind regards

 

Mrs Michelle L Shaw

Consumer Services Officer

Client Queries

 

Experian Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with registered number 653331 and whose registered office is at Talbot House, Talbot Street, Nottingham, NG80 1TH

 

So it appears that Capital one has replied to one company but NOT the other! I emailed Experian today asking for some sort of confirmation that Capital One replied to them. I find it strange they replied to one and not the other considering I sent the letters/emails on same day.

[marcellep]

I need help again (sorry)

 

Basically Cap one claimed they have sent me a copy of the "default" which they haven't. I have sent several letters recorded delivery and spoken to them on the phone.

 

I called again today and the staff told me they do not have a copy of the default as it relates back to 2005. Now I told them under the "Data Protection act" I am legally entitled to a copy of the default. The information commissioner told me this.

 

So Capital one say they will get a senior manager to call me back to discuss this within 2hrs from now.

 

What am I saying to them?

 

I am hoping this is a good time to argue the point of getting the default removed, but not sure what to say.

 

Just to add the only CRA which still has the default is Experian as the other have removed it due to Capital One not contacting them:mad:

[IdaInFife]

was cap one included in your trust deed?

 

ida x

[marcellep]

was cap one included in your trust deed?

 

ida x

 

Yes they where included in my TD, Just like the other defaults I have had removed.

 

Update- The manager did call me back today, Complete idiot he was. He has told me that Capital One do not need to supply me with a copy of the default, its good enough with them saying it was applied correctly. I told him I had spoken with the IC who says I am entitled to this information.

 

I aint sure what to do now?

[IdaInFife]

I would make a formal complaint to capital One :

 

Executive Office

Capital One

PO Box 5281

Nottingham

NG2 9HD

 

pointing out htay they are fully aware that you had a PTD and now are dishcarged from any liabilty and that the default needs to be removed and bout the lack of service you have received recently

 

ida x

[marcellep]

I would make a formal complaint to capital One :

 

Executive Office

Capital One

PO Box 5281

Nottingham

NG2 9HD

 

pointing out htay they are fully aware that you had a PTD and now are dishcarged from any liabilty and that the default needs to be removed and bout the lack of service you have received recently

 

ida x

 

Thanks I have just emailed the CE of Capital one, I have also included the IC and the FSA in the email too.

 

I will also print the email of and send it too the address above which I have been using for mths now.

 

It appears they just don't wanna reply.......

 

I will fight this all the way, and hopefully I will get what I want.

[IdaInFife]

wrong thread

[IdaInFife]

the defaults may remain but they have to be marked as settled

 

 

ida x

[marcellep]

Well they aint done that yet, They keep updating the default on my CR. I will fight a wee bit more for complete removal.

[marcellep]

*Update* 14th May 2009

 

Well I did send an email to Richard Fairbank, who I am informed is the big boss @ Capital One.

 

Well I got a reply

 

Dear Marcellep

 

This is a courtesy email to confirm that we have received the email you sent to Richard Fairbank on Tuesday and are actively investigating your concerns and how we can resolve them. I will be your point of contact regarding this. If you would like to contact me regarding your complaint, please feel free to call me on 0115 8433792. I am in the office on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday between 8.30am and 2pm.

 

I will endeavour to provide you with a written reply, as you have requested, within the next five working days.

 

Thank you for your patience

 

Kelly Shaw

Executive Office UK

0115 843 3792 (dept)

[marcellep]

This is a letter I received from Capital One today, what a check the letter is dated the 7th April 2009. With the letter I have a basic copy of terms and conditions which apply to the credit card. No information they have provided is what I have asked for. I asked for “a copy of the default under the data protection act” I was told I was entitled to this by the information commissioner.

I think this is just a standard letter with a few lines added.

 

 

Dear Marcellep

 

Thank you for your letter requesting copy documents for your account.

You requested copies of the executed credit agreements and statements of your clients account under section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement as requested. In accordance with section 78 of the CCA 1974 and the consumer credit regulations 1983, this is the original agreement, and if any terms have been varied, then the copy agreement will include the updated terms. In addition, your personal details, the signature box, and date of signature have been omitted from the copy provided as permitted under the regulations of consumer credit (cancellations Notices and Copy Documents) regulations 1983.

 

Your account was in default prior to entering into a IVA

 

Under section 78 we are not required to provide you a copy of the default notice and statements default. However, we can confirm a statement of default was issued on the 12th May 2005.

 

I trust that this information will help you with your enquires. If you need any further assistance please contact me again.

 

You’re sincerely

 

Ellie Renshaw

Executive Office Manager.

[marcellep]

This is a letter I received from Capital One today, what a check the letter is dated the 7th April 2009. With the letter I have a basic copy of terms and conditions which apply to the credit card. No information they have provided is what I have asked for. I asked for “a copy of the default under the data protection act” I was told I was entitled to this by the information commissioner.

I think this is just a standard letter with a few lines added.

 

I have now logged an offical complaint with the IC.

[marcellep]

Can anyone tell me if I am etitled a copy of my default. As per cap one they do not need to send me anything at all.

 

What do I do now?

 

They have sent me a letter with a copy of a blank default!!!

[marcellep]

Anyone help?

[IdaInFife]

i'm not too sure as the account is closed that they need to suuply these docs but certainly would need to under a sar

 

ida x

[marcellep]

I complained to the IC and this is the reply :idea:

 

Dear Marcellep

 

Thank you for your email of 12 May 2009.

 

I note that Capital One has applied a default to your account without informing you. I note that you have tried, without success, to obtain a copy of the default notice from Capital One.

 

I do not know the circumstances in which Capital One imposed the default and in any event cannot comment on whether Capital One was correct in doing so as this is not within the remit of the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO).

 

In general a defaulted account may show on a credit reference file for 6 years from the date of the default. A default normally occurs when the terms of a credit agreement have not been met and the account is 3-6 months in arrears. When the debt is repaid, the entry on the credit reference file should be marked as settled or satisfied.

 

You may wish to note that Section 15 of The Consumer Credit Act 2006 provides that credit agreements which would previously have been irredeemably unenforceable because they are unsigned, or missing, may now be enforced by court order. In view of this the ICO re-considered the circumstances in which the credit reference agencies should be permitted to record details of unenforceable credit agreements. In doing so particular regard was paid not only to the clear legislative intent that the absence of a credit agreement, should no longer be an absolute bar to enforcement, but also to the following factors;

 

1. The question of whether a legal liability exists in relation to a credit agreement is quite separate from the question of whether such a liability may be enforced by the creditor.
   
2. Where a liability does exist, creditors have a legitimate interest in sharing relevant information about that liability, including information about whether the amount due has been repaid. Such information may properly inform responsible lending decisions, regardless of whether the liability is enforceable.
   
3. Responsible lending decisions are dependent upon lenders receiving accurate information about individuals’ ability (and/or inclination) to repay their debts. Where a credit agreement clearly existed and credit has been provided to the debtor, but the debtor is not obliged to repay the loan due to the provisions of the Consumer Credit Acts, this does not mean that there was no agreement in the first place. It simply means that there was no enforceable regulated agreement.
   

It follows that, where the existence of the agreement is not in doubt, the ICO considers it to be appropriate for information about the agreement, including any failure by the debtor to repay his or her debt, to be recorded with the credit reference agencies. Where a ‘debtor’ disputes the existence of any credit agreement, enforceable or otherwise, the ICO would ask to see evidence of the agreement and of its terms. This might include evidence of the provision of the credit facility or of a history of payments made by the debtor.

 

It follows that, where the existence of the agreement is not in doubt, we consider it to be appropriate for information about the agreement, including any failure by the debtor to repay his or her debt, to be recorded with the credit reference agencies. Where a ‘debtor’ disputes the existence of any credit agreement, enforceable or otherwise, we would ask to see evidence of the agreement and of its terms. This might include evidence of the provision of the credit facility or of a history of payments made by the debtor.

 

The 4th Principle of the Data Protection Act 1998 (the Act) requires that personal information should be “accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date”. As you may know, Section 12A of the Act entitles a data subject to give notice in writing to a data controller to require them to rectify, block, erase or destroy such data that are inaccurate or incomplete. The notice must be in writing. Please see pages 19 – 21 of our ‘Credit Explained’ booklet for further information, a link to which is below.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/credit_explained_leaflet_2005.pdf

 

If, after a period of at least 28 days, no satisfactory response is received a formal complaint may be made to the Information Commissioner’s Office. Please see pages 22 – 24 of the booklet, ‘When and how to complain’.

 

I enclose a link to the appropriate section of the ICO website.

 

Complaints about data protection policy - ICO

 

I hope this reply is of assistance.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Anne Gordon

Advice Officer