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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Giving the keys back - advice needed


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thank you, we are trying to save as much as possable but i have now just had a gas and electric bill for £430.00 could i put this on the bankruptcy ?? also will this affect us when we move house for gas and electric ??. our mortgage will be in default at the end of this month, so we want to do the bankruptcy before or just after this so that way the house goes with the BR.

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im trying to deal with everything at the moment, so its less stress for my husband as he has high blood presure, and gets really bad chest pains if it gets to high. so the more i try and sort out the better for all of us. i am so greatful all the help i get on here, i could not do it without all the advice i get from your site. if i ever win the lottery i will come on here and donate.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have found some rental companys do not do credit check but work references. We have found a small house that said as long as we are employed full time thats all they need! I also got a copy of our credit report and mine was quite good..??? So if your looking at private renting, i would call or email the rental companys (go to right move and you can email all the rental companys on there and advice of your situation). I had a few replys advising they would work around my bad debt problems, and some companies are very good.

Fingers cross we get the house we want!

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  • 1 month later...

Can anyone cut and paste a template or link to the wording used to notify the mort. company that I am handing keys back. Also I read that this should be printed and not signed.....

 

Thanks.

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Just from the advice i have read i think you are still responsible for the buildings insurance and council tax until house gets sold either way. We have now moved out of our house and into rented and when we phoned the council they said we can have 6 months exemption from paying the council tax as the property is vacant?

 

Heidi1974 - We were honest to the lettings agent about our bad credit and we were really lucky to find a nice man who helped us find somewhere as he knows his landlords well he knew which ones wouldn't mind as long as the rent is payed. Smaller lettings companies seem to be better for this as bigger ones either want a guarantor or 6 months rent in advance!!

 

We have found an absolutely beautiful place to rent, being away from our old house really helps to deal with the situation, though it is still there and empty whilst we wait for the mortgage company to do their business. Only problem is took all forms in to council for housing benefit, they said it will take at least 10wks to sort out, i said how are we supposed to pay rent in the mean time we already had to borrow 2nd months rent off family as it cleared us out to pay deposit and first months rent up front - they said theres nothing they can do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Agree courts should do joint bankruptcy - it is bad enough trying to fill these forms in once let alone twice when all info is nearly the same. Still can't decide whether to use Debt Release direct to do it, they will charge us £1500 for both of us to go bankrupt, they fill in all forms and send to court and pay court fees out of that - can anyone give any advice on this and also how to paste parts of peoples posts on here???

 

I also don't know what we would have done without the advice on here, we would never have had the confidence to walk away from our house and face going bankrupt?

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I spoke to Barclays who provide my insurance and they said once you hand keys back it's the mortgage company's responsibility to insure property..... (just wanted some more examples.....)

 

*Great advice on these forums*

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Thats great about the house insurance... and that you got a 6 months exempt from your council tax, i wonder if that depends on what district you live in..? or do they all do that, as to honest i never thought about council tax!

we finally got somewhere, we got offered a few places to our surprise but typically my husband choice the house with the big letting company who were adamant we needed credit checks ect! we somehow passed with flying colour's and we move in 26th May! So we are very happy as its big enough to have a family in!

When u file for bankruptcy, they ask u where you have lived for most of the time, as to where ur debts are registered.. as we are moving to a different county, would we still have to do it here or at our new area?

Do we have to tell any of our debtors are new address?

 

Its great to see light at the end of the tunnel, and when the bankruptcy goes through i can finally relax!

 

With the regards to the comment above about the company who fills in the forms, i wouldnt use them as the forms are not that bad (okay i know it did take me a while to do them) but if u have probs the CCCs are great and why spend more money than you have too, save the extra money you would spend and have a wee holiday! I know i will when this is over! :)

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Thats great about the house insurance... and that you got a 6 months exempt from your council tax, i wonder if that depends on what district you live in..? or do they all do that, as to honest i never thought about council tax!

 

Once you move out of the house the owner is liable for the council tax.

 

Just tell the Council you are moving out and give them the address you are moving to.

 

The last house I was involved in renovating with was exempt from Council Tax and empty property Rates because the Kitchen Sink, Bath, Basin & Toilet had been removed deeming the property inhabitable.

PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

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Once you move out of the house the owner is liable for the council tax.

 

Just tell the Council you are moving out and give them the address you are moving to.

 

The last house I was involved in renovating with was exempt from Council Tax and empty property Rates because the Kitchen Sink, Bath, Basin & Toilet had been removed deeming the property inhabitable.

 

Thanks.

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Our mortgage company have just passed our account to their solicitors so we are at the start of them repossessing our house (which is what we want) we have also had our house on the market since jan. We have had a few offers but they are way below the asking price and what we owe on the mortgage - should the mortgage company accept this offer as i'm sure if they repossess it they will sell it for a ridiculous price anyway? It doesn't really matter that much to us as we will be going bankrupt as soon as we have the money but its just that pride thing kicking in again???

 

We just want the whole thing over and done with as quick as possible so does anybody know what is the quickest route, ie sending the keys back, waiting for them to repossess or selling (if we can secure a sale)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can anyone offer any advice. We have been waiting for the mortgage company to repossess our house, its on the market and we just had an offer for about £40000 under the asking price. We have asked the mortgage company if they will accept that or what figure they will accept and they have told us we need to complete a proposed shortfall sale form?

 

At the end of the letter it states that we will need to sign a deed of acknowledgement of debt which is a legally binding contract stipulating the terms of the agreement for the repayment of the shortfall.

 

We are going bankrupt as soon as we can afford to but if we sign this contract will the shortfall still be included in our bankruptcy?

 

Any advice would be great - just want this whole process over as quick as possible!!

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Be very careful about signing such a document, Mortgage shortfalls are tricky enough and the banks are not stupid, they know what you are intending to do, or will have a good idea and as such will attempt to bind you to a contract to repay the shortfall.

 

Look at it objectively and (I know it's not easy) without emotion or principles.

 

The house is no longer yours, you are disowning it, regardless of what you do or don't do the bank will attempt to maximise their return, they will take whatever guarantees them the highest return, it's simply a case of numbers to them.

 

I would reckon that the newly created shortfall agreement would not form part of the BRO

 

From their perspective £100k plus a guarantee from you for the shortfall is no different than £120k and a guarantee from you for the shortfall (figs for demonstration purposes only) you will not benefit in any way whatsoever whichever way the property is disposed of or for what price.

 

Either you would be scalped by a developer or similar who picks up the property on the cheap, or you are scalped by the bank who sell the property on the cheap and then attempt to nail you for the shortfall.

 

For what it's worth and it is purely my own opininon, I would walk away without looking back and simply let the bank take the property without a fuss and most of all without any co-operation from yourselves, selling the house prior to BR may be more trouble than it's worth

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Be very careful about signing such a document, Mortgage shortfalls are tricky enough and the banks are not stupid, they know what you are intending to do, or will have a good idea and as such will attempt to bind you to a contract to repay the shortfall.

 

Look at it objectively and (I know it's not easy) without emotion or principles.

 

The house is no longer yours, you are disowning it, regardless of what you do or don't do the bank will attempt to maximise their return, they will take whatever guarantees them the highest return, it's simply a case of numbers to them.

 

I would reckon that the newly created shortfall agreement would not form part of the BRO

 

From their perspective £100k plus a guarantee from you for the shortfall is no different than £120k and a guarantee from you for the shortfall (figs for demonstration purposes only) you will not benefit in any way whatsoever whichever way the property is disposed of or for what price.

 

Either you would be scalped by a developer or similar who picks up the property on the cheap, or you are scalped by the bank who sell the property on the cheap and then attempt to nail you for the shortfall.

 

For what it's worth and it is purely my own opininon, I would walk away without looking back and simply let the bank take the property without a fuss and most of all without any co-operation from yourselves, selling the house prior to BR may be more trouble than it's worth

 

So would you not write a letter enclosing keys for return (as in my case), or would you send keys back? - Thanks in advance.

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So would you not write a letter enclosing keys for return (as in my case), or would you send keys back? - Thanks in advance.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, just as a note

 

sending in a letter to accompany your keys when you hand them back is essential, explain who you are and why you are returning the keys, you do not need to sign this letter. as previously mentioned you should treat these keys as being extremely valuable and ensure that you obtain proof of posting and delivery, or a receipt if you are handing them in at a local branch. This would be needed should the lender dispute your sending in the keys, or whether they received them or whatever

 

The form I was referring to in the previous post is something completely different. It is basically a guarantee or assurance that you will take responsibility for any shortfall after the sale/discharge of your mortgage. I would imagine that the wording of such an assurance would indemnify any lender against a debtor including the mortgage shortfall in their bankruptcy.

 

Hope this clarifies ;)

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Sorry if I wasn't clear, just as a note

 

sending in a letter to accompany your keys when you hand them back is essential, explain who you are and why you are returning the keys, you do not need to sign this letter. as previously mentioned you should treat these keys as being extremely valuable and ensure that you obtain proof of posting and delivery, or a receipt if you are handing them in at a local branch. This would be needed should the lender dispute your sending in the keys, or whether they received them or whatever

 

The form I was referring to in the previous post is something completely different. It is basically a guarantee or assurance that you will take responsibility for any shortfall after the sale/discharge of your mortgage. I would imagine that the wording of such an assurance would indemnify any lender against a debtor including the mortgage shortfall in their bankruptcy.

 

Hope this clarifies ;)

 

Thanks again.

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Thanks for the advoce spamheed, i thought that might be the case, think its best all round to send the keys back to the mortgage company - does anybody know ho wlong it takes or what happens once you return the keys?

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Thanks for the advoce spamheed, i thought that might be the case, think its best all round to send the keys back to the mortgage company - does anybody know ho wlong it takes or what happens once you return the keys?

 

Can anyone provide a template of a letter and is there anything that should be avoided when typing out a letter. I want to send my keys back but am holding off as I'm unsure on what to write.

 

Good Luck JNJL

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Yes a letter template would be good, i think it will be good psychologically to send the keys back and move on. Good Luck to you to lic2009.

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Hiya JNJL,

 

We are currently fighting a repossession order on our home and it can be quite daunting, if it wasnt for the guys on the forum we would have given up a long time ago. We are back in court on Monday AM and I sure this will be the fight of our lives as the judge adjourned hearing for lender to submit figures as we found discrepancies with arrears plus charges, so I sure they will be gunning for us.

 

Similarly we have 2 small children and yes we do sometimes feel like giving up however its not over till the fat lady sings and after all it is ur home. I do hope u dont give back keys without a fight. Stay positive and strong, however do whats best for you and your family.

 

Best of luck

Survivor:)

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