N.P V Egg

[N.P]

Morning all,

 

Right, here`s another one to add to my list of hassles.

 

I`ve missed a couple of monthly payments on my Egg Loan (December & January), reasons being short pays due to less hours worked, starter motor bombed out on car costing £145 during December, the usual stuff.

 

I thought the car was more important than paying Egg as I need the car to get the family around and myself to work. My parents bought us the car, so we`ve got to look after it.

 

Anyway, yesterday I received the following letter from Egg.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The interesting thing is, this claims I have been issued a Default Notice and I can honestly say I have not received one.

 

I have received a couple in the past which I have remedied (pay up on), but I haven`t received one this time around.

 

I received a Statement Of Arrears, but no Default Notice.

 

When I log into the Egg website a little note was visible for a few days reading something like `You have recently been sent a Default Notice`. This is not a Notice as such, but just a reminder letting me know that I have been sent one. The strange thing is, each day I log in, it displayed that day`s date, and not the date the missing Default Notice was supposed to be issued.

 

Also, this Loan was taken out which I beleive to me a Multiple Agreement.

 

They kept half the Loan to pay off their own Egg Card and deposited the remainder in my Bank Account.

 

Some will argue that this is not a Multiple Agreement, because I could have paid the Card off with other funds. But, the Loan states Cash Loan but they only gave me half of the Loan and kept the other half to pay off the Card.

 

The arguement their is, I could not have paid off the Card as they decided for them selves what I should do with my Cash Loan.

 

I beleive the original Card had PPI on.

 

My first move is to send them a CCA request and also a seperate SAR. The CCA should get a speedier response than a SAR and will give me something to pick on.

 

Any comments on this please?

 

Thanks for looking.

 

 

 

N.P

[pt2537]

do you have the agreement?

[N.P]

Hi PT,

 

I have a copy in my parents house, in the spare room somewhere.

 

I was going to send a CCA off in the morning to save messing about in the house.

 

I`m pretty sure it states one lump sum which was a Cash Loan. There is no PPI on the Loan.

 

What are you thinking?

 

Anything about the missing Default Notice?

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Evening boys and girls,

 

Ok, a CCA request has been sent to Egg and I`m awaiting a signature for that. Not that I will, because Royal Mail are crap and don`t get letter`s signed for, even though you pay for the service.

 

Anyway, enough of the nonsense. Today I received a letter from Capital Collections Agencies.

 

These appear to be Egg`s internal bunch of bum holes.

 

The letter read`s something like you have failed to contact Egg and you owe them money and you need to contact them immediately or they will send around a collections manager to discuss the situation, not that I`ll let the fool in or even talk to him. More like tell him to p off then knock him out when he doesn`t.

 

What get`s me the most about this letter is the envelope it was in.

 

The window was 4 times the size needed for my address and the words Capital Collections were clearly seen in BOLD above my address.

 

Also on the back of the envelope was their PO box address, this again started with their full name, Capital Collections Agencies.

 

Could someone point me to a link of the Trading Standards guidelines regarding Physcological Harrassement? I should have this saved but I haven`t, so if anyone has a link saved they can point me too, then I would be really grateful, as I`m going to email Egg a secure message and let them know I`m not happy about the way these knob jockeys send out their mail.

 

Thanks gang.

 

 

 

N.P

Edited March 2, 2009 by N.P

[N.P]

Evening boys and girls,

 

Right, after nearly 3 weeks after I posted my CCA request to those idiots at Egg, they have sent me a 3 page Egg Loan Statement. Why have they sent this? I did not ask for it. I did not send them £1 for that. Are they a bunch of imbeciles or something like that?

 

Not exactly what I was after, so they are still in default on my request.

 

The letter reads -

 

 

 

Dear N.P

As requested, please find enclosed a copy of your Egg Loan statement for the period 19 November 2004 to 26 February 2009.

The ending balance on your statment is not a settlement figure. If you would like a settlement figure, please contact our Servicing Team on 08456 000291.

If you have any questions or require information please do not hesitate to call and we`ll be happy to help.

Best Wishes

Squiggle

Citigroup Global Services Ltd.

Egg Banking plc.

 

 

 

Well, I think that`s about it for the time being, nothing else to add until they write again, hopefully with the correct information.

 

Regards

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Evening viewers,

 

Right, we have an update. Although the totaly crap Royal Mail website still claims my letter is still at my local Sorting Office, Egg have actually received my CCA request.

 

The CCA looks something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the second page resembles something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

They also sent a copy of what they call is MY Terms & Conditions. But, they are clearly a copy of the current ones. Their charges are cheaper and the account number is blacked out, and also it`s a copy of another sheet which is smaller and stuck in the middle of the Egg paper on which it was copied. Two Egg Logo`s and a shrunked page in the center are a dead giveaway.

 

The also sent me a copy of my Statements which were just a line for each month on a printout.

 

That looks something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, this is where it gets intersting. The Loan was for £13,509.

 

The first two entries on the statement are for the loan which has been split in two. One to pay off the Egg Card - £6552.22, which they kept out of the Loan total sum, for themselves.

 

The other was cash paid into my Bank Account - £6956.78. I still can`t see any reference to this is my Bank Account statements, it`s like it was never there

 

So, what we have here is a Section 18 Double Whammy! Take a look at the CCA people and let me know if you agree.

 

Bottom line - the Loan was for £13,509 and I was only issued £6956.78. They kep the rest and paid off the Egg Card.

 

They also call the Loan an Egg Top-Up Loan.

 

How can it be a Top-Up if all I had was an Egg Card? The mind boggles.

 

AND, on top of that. I still haven`t received a Default Notice, but their CCA cover letter reads I was issued one as per the regulations. The mind is still boggling!

 

Ciao for now!

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Hi gang,

 

Does anyone have any comments on this agreement as to wether it is a Multiple Agreement or not?

[militantconsumer]

Hi NP

 

There has been a lot of discussion about this on PT's epic multiple agreement thread.

 

I think the general opinion is that this set up is NOT a multiple agreement.

 

There was a recent case (Jan 2009?), which steven from the site team posted somewhere, where the judge said something like it can't be a multiple agreement if you could have paid it off with your own funds.

 

Your only saving grace might be that you never saw that money and were therefore not free to use it as you wished.

 

Also that Egg had the 'secret' backing sheet showing how funds were to be restricted.

 

However, is paying off a credit card really a different category of credit within CCA 1974?

 

Will try and find a link to that new case and post it here.

[N.P]

Hi NP

 

There has been a lot of discussion about this on PT's epic multiple agreement thread.

 

I think the general opinion is that this set up is NOT a multiple agreement.

 

There was a recent case (Jan 2009?), which steven from the site team posted somewhere, where the judge said something like it can't be a multiple agreement if you could have paid it off with your own funds.

 

Your only saving grace might be that you never saw that money and were therefore not free to use it as you wished.

 

Also that Egg had the 'secret' backing sheet showing how funds were to be restricted.

 

However, is paying off a credit card really a different category of credit within CCA 1974?

 

Will try and find a link to that new case and post it here.

 

 

Hi mc,

 

Thanks for the post.

 

Yeah, I read that post by steven4064 on PT`s thread, and I also read that ruling.

 

That ruling was such, because the person involved received the FULL amount of the Loan. She was expected to use it to pay off a debt, but it looks like she never, so therfore was basically free to do whatever she wanted with that Loan sum.

 

But, like I have said, and as shown in the statement, I only received a part of the Loan, and they kept the other lump to pay off their Card.

 

That is the difference, and that is why I beleive this IS a multiple agreement.

 

Anyone else have anything to put?

 

 

 

N.P

[militantconsumer]

Don't forget about the "secret" backing sheet that proves it.

 

Yours will no doubt have a figure in the "Egg card 1" box.

 

[N.P]

HI again mc,

 

I take it your in a similar position as myself?

 

Did you receive your `Secret Backing Sheet` from a SAR request?

 

I never received one, I only sent them a CCA request.

 

Things are definately looking interesting though, aren`t they?

 

I also never received a Default Notice. Their cover letter reads the Default Notice was sent out according to legislation.

 

I have had them in the past and paid up, but this time around I received nothing, just an `Arrears Notice`, but NO Default Notice.

 

They will claim they have sent one out, and I beleive a Judge will have deemed it received after 2 days, but I will definately argue against that in the way that if they don`t have a receipt/proof of postage then it is my word against their`s and I say I never received one, so PROVE you sent it out!

 

What exactly is your situation?

 

Thanks again for the input.

 

Regards

 

 

 

N.P

[militantconsumer]

Did you receive your `Secret Backing Sheet` from a SAR request?

 

Yes

 

 

What exactly is your situation?

 

This is my friend's Egg loan case that I am helping/dealing with:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/174507-militant-consumers-friend-egg.html

[N.P]

Hi again people,

 

Right I have another UPDATE on this thread.

 

I received this from those bunch of clowns at Morecrap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seem`s funny receiving this from Morecrap as the very first DCA letter I received was from them for the Argos account.

 

Well, again, I beleive this to be a Multiple Agreement, especially based on the explanation of Section 18 by Bennion. Looking at the CCA at first glance, it would seem ok, but again, I still beleive it to be a Multiple Agreement.

 

any comments people?

 

 

 

N.P

[militantconsumer]

Hi N.P

 

Have you formally disputed the account, setting out your reasons?

 

I think I'm right in saying they shouldn't issue legal proceedings if there is a genuine dispute? (but you should check).

 

Perhaps Moorcroft will simply give up if they realise it's going to be difficult, and pass your account back to Egg?

 

Certainly these letters are designed mainly to scare people - but of course they are right that they have now given you an official Letter Before Action.

 

Remember the £5,000 small claims limit - if I have read it right your alleged outstanding balance is just over that, which could open you up to costs.

[N.P]

Hi mc,

 

Thanks for the post.

 

No, I haven`t wrote directly to Egg and expressed my concerns. I`m stuck as to how to word a letter of dispute regarding what I beleive should be a Multiple Document.

 

Also, they claim in an earlier letter they sent me a Default Notice, although I have never received one. Their letter was something like `Despite us previously sending you a Default Notice etc.....`.

 

Any idea`s?

 

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Afternoon people,

 

Right, as there doesn`t seem to be much interest in this, last night I thought I`d have a crack at emailing the one and only, Francis Bennion, regarding Top-Up-Loans.

 

His comment was this -

 

 

 

I am sorry to hear of your difficulties.

 

My position is that I am aged 86, a barrister with no practising certificate and no indemnity insurance.

 

I am therefore not allowed by the Bar Council to give legal advice to persons in your position.

 

If I do I am liable to penalties and also risk being sued if it is thought my advice is incorrect.

 

I regret therefore that I cannot help you. I suggest you try the Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

You may be entitled to legal aid.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Francis Bennion.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it`s not exactly the answer I was looking for, but I can totaly understand where he is coming from, and I`m also quite impressed with the fact that he took time out to reply to a lesser mortal, such as myself.

 

 

N.P

[citizenB]

NP, I think FB has been approached by several CAGers and they have received pretty much the same response.

[N.P]

NP, I think FB has been approached by several CAGers and they have received pretty much the same response.

 

 

Hi cB,

 

I guess the guy is just trying to cover his own gluteus maximus

[plucked chick]

Hi NP I got a backing sheet and a load of computer messages between departments. Some of them really interesting regarding upping limits and offering topup loans as I had 50 yes FIFTY children what a lot of ......child benefit!!!!??? No wonder they kept upping my limit when I told them I was struggling - it went something like "to avoid having to pay overlimit charges we have upped your credit limit" which in turn was taken in interest and so it went on until I said I can no longer play your game. Don't forget though they are from over the pond - no offence to any american friends on this site!

[plucked chick]

Incidentally I don't have fifty children!

[militantconsumer]

PC - I've seen some pretty inaccurate data on the Egg credit applications, but yours is certainly the funniest. I assume it's not an April fool!

 

----

 

NP - As I'm sure you realise, doing nothing is not an option here. I suspect that if you ignore all this correspondence you will soon receive a court claim, which they hope you will also ignore, so they get a CCJ by default to back their claim up.

 

In my opinion you really need to dispute this properly, setting out your reasons to them. If they know you are serious then you might at least get a settlement out of court for a lower final payment, even if you are not prepared to fight on s18 all the way.

 

By the way, which categories of credit are you saying your loan should have been divided between? (I mean which ones in CCA 1974)

[N.P]

Hi MC,

 

Yeah, the loan was taken out 2004.

 

I beleive it IS a Multiple Agreement. Simply based on the fat that the loan was for £13,000.

 

But, as I already had a Egg Card, they only gave me £7,000 and kept the remaining £6,000 to pay off the Card. So, as I never even saw the FULL amount of the loan, and only the £7,000, that would make it Un-Restricted and Restricted Use.

 

Only recently I have received a statement sheet which also shows 2 seperate payments for the loan amount.

 

Bennion, has a 11 Page article explaining Section 18 and Multiple Agreements, and mentions 2 examples, including Credit Cards and Top-Up-Loans.

 

Also, I have not received a Default Notice, even though when I log into the Egg site claims one has been sent out.

 

I don`t think I should mention not receiving a Default Notice as I could use that against them in a claim, but I understand I need to send something back. It`s just, I`m not much good at getting the wording right.

 

 

 

N.P

[joneseyblod]

Do you have anything in writing or via a SAR or do you have a name of a person you spoke to that could add weight to your case that it was a condition of the loan that the card was cleared?

 

I have had a similar experience and a card with same institution had to be cleared in order to get the loan, but so far no proof of that fact. Just a verbal conversation with a named person.

[plucked chick]

Hi NP, Egg sent a letter to me saying they do not keep copies of the Default Notices but "here is a pretend one (template) of what it would have looked like" so I doubt if there was one and if there was and you are deemed to have received it after five days unless you request a copy. I did not know this for my loan day in court and the judge hinted to me that I was at liberty to go back to court to have the ccj set aside as I had requested a copy and not received one but I had not "formally" requested one.

 

By the way it's not an April fool and on the same page I have 10 dependants?????? I was wrong that makes 60!!! lots of child benefit I'm gonna be rich!!!

[N.P]

Hi gang,

 

Right, another UPDATE, which I received this morning.

 

Again, it`s from those irritants at Morecrap.

 

It goes something like this -

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, check out the date on that thing, it was posted on Good Friday, obviously on purpose, knowing I wouldn`t receive it untill now. What a bunch of knob jockeys!

 

Again, seems to be the usual crap, we MAY kick your head in. This one was delivered in a nice, bright, yellow envelope. Do you think it meant to stand out?

 

Right, looks like I`ll be replying to this one, maybe in a nice red envelope or a black one, with `anti arsehole division` on it. Does anyone have any idea`s? Maybe a Formal FO! `What`s it got to do with you bell ends?`

 

I like the line at the bottom claiming they have confirmation that I live at that address, by a major utility service. Maybe I should tell them that I live with my girlfriend and that house is my parents, and it is impossible that any utilites are registered in my name.

 

I`m still going along with the Section 18 Multiple Agreement thing, and also the lack of a Default Notice.

 

Any comments people?

 

Thanks for looking.

 

 

 

N.P