Mbna 'agreement' - now threat of legal action

[underdog13]

After a delay of months MBNA have finally deigned to respond to my CCA request; 3 days after they drafted a letter threatening legal action, a charging order and order of sale!

 

The 'agreements' look very much like a blue peter job to me - umpteen different code numbers scattered about.

Edited August 8, 2009 by underdog13
app form deleted

[underdog13]

Optima threatening letter for above account;

[underdog13]

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Edited August 8, 2009 by underdog13

[underdog13]

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Edited August 8, 2009 by underdog13

[underdog13]

For clarity, since it's so hard to read, the codes on the abbey agreement bear a date stamp of 09- 02 beside the 'agreement' and 01/02 under the T&Cs - why would they have two different dates on the same page?

 

Secondly, on the Virgin 'agreement' the date code on the personal info page is 06-02, on the rear under the T&Cs it is 12/01. Again, why two different dates, especially when the date inder the T&Cs is 9 months out of date!

[underdog13]

Thanks, Windywoo; my thoughts exactly. I am so incensed by this obvious forgery, I will fight it all the way and am prepared to state in court that I believe it is fraudulent - if I end up saddled with a huge costs order, well that's the risk I will have to take.

 

What I'd really like to do is prove them guilty of fraud -surely we could garner enough evidence between the people on this site to at least introduce an element of doubt and hopefully convince the authorities to investigate further - or am I just being terribly naive?

[underdog13]

Another howler I forgot to mention; on the Virgin agreement they have date stamped it (which I believe is their 'signature') a month earlier than when it was actually sent back to them.

[underdog13]

Excellent idea underdog!

 

As they have supplied me with a similarly concocted "agreement" it would be great to expose this company for their underhanded tactics and complete disregard for the law, however getting enough people to complain and convince the powers that be......mmmmm!!

 

It would certainly be a struggle, no doubt about that; but I'd still like to try. If I lived anywhere near Chester I would be willing to take a job at Chester Towers just to get the inside scoop - that's how angry I am, lol.

 

I saw one really blatant forgery (can't remember the thread now, curse my goldfish memory), where MBNA had tacked the same column of prescribed terms on to someones application form and the two backgrounds didn't even match. Their copy and paste skills are improving; small wonder, really, they've had plenty of practice!

[underdog13]

Thanks for that brilliantly helpful reply, Cosalt:D

 

In the Abbey agreement the text in the left hand column is a different size to every piece of text in the right hand side; the fine print on the right is smaller and the standard lettering on the right is larger than that in the left column.

 

The letters are not properly formed - it's bad on the right side, even worse in the left hand column.

 

There is absolutely no mention of T&Cs overleaf in either document, indeed, both agreements state 'I have received a copy of the T&Cs' which suggests to me that the terms were in fact in a different document! Both agreements tell me to read condition 11 - T&Cs on the actual agreement only go up to 2.4. If it was so important that I read this, why wouldn't it have been included in the column of terms on the agreement?

 

The second agreement (Virgin) has absolutely nothing to link the front page to the back. Text is different sizes and the right hand column is a much poorer quality - virtually unreadable. The spacings do indeed look very peculiar. There is a reference on the rear page of the Virgin agreement that says 'see leaflet enclosed for further details', most odd when there are a cloumn of details right next to that quote!

 

Your info has been fantastically helpful, Cosalt; I would feel much happier raising these points with a judge rather than simply stating 'it looks wrong to me and I think it's a forgery'! I understand you can't be definate without seeing the copy I received, but I think the very relevant points you raised has covered it. Would love to organise a conference - all us caggers comparing their dodgy agreements, then raising the issue with the relevant authorities:D

 

Like you, I was thinking of writing to MBNA requesting a view of my original agreement at their offices. Now. I wonder what their response will be;)

[underdog13]

Thanks ever so much Chalkitup, for your interest and offer of help.

 

How I wish I had had your foresight and copied all my application forms! I agree that it is very odd that we are all suddenly receiving 'agreements' with the same column of prescribed terms. The arrogance of these companies is breath taking - as you say, they are taking a huge risk.

[underdog13]

Good to have you onboard FBR.

 

Nope, your eyes do not deceive you, there is no signature box for mbna on either the abbey or the virgin agreement/ application form.

 

You made a good point - every other contract you sign, you do expect a copy, don't you?

 

By the way, the prescribed terms on the back of your dodgy agreement - do they carry a date stamp in the bottom right hand corner of 12/01, by any chance?

[underdog13]

Well at least they've managed to vary their date stamps for once - I've seen so many agreements/ app forms with 12/01 stamped under the same stuck on columns of terms I was begining to think they were the only ones they had. The 12/01 stamp on mine didn't correspond with my application!

[underdog13]

I'm contacting the police in the next couple of days - will try to persuade them to have a look. I'll update the thread with any developments.

[underdog13]

That is brilliant news Atwozee - realised they would be prof printed, but did not realise they (printers) would keep files for very long or that the code numbers were linked to the printers.

 

More for the police to look into - the game is afoot:D

 

Thanks so much for that, atwozee - more grist to the mill;) Isn't it amazing what caggers can come up with when they put their heads together? My learning curve is certainly in the steep ascendant!

[underdog13]

Thanks, angel -glad to have your support.

 

We seem to be thinking along the same lines; I thought if I could get the police interested in mine, I could refer to other cases - with peoples' permission, of course. The more examples we can proffer, the weightier our case, hopefully.

[underdog13]

You've made some good points there, Atwozee. I would hate them to get away with it on a technicality; maybe a SAR first would be an idea.

 

Angel, please do speak to your retired police officer and let us know his opinion.

 

I'm chomping at the bit to get on with this; but don't want to go blundering in, mess it up and let them off the hook. Oh dear, patience was never one of my virtues:-|

 

So it looks like a SAR would be the next best step.

[underdog13]

I'd be interested to see what they come up with too, Windywoo - please keep us posted.

 

I think the more we combine our efforts on this, the more chance we have of success.

[underdog13]

Hi lexis - could you use CPR to get a copy of your original agreement?

[underdog13]

Hi Lexis,

you're not defeatist - just having natural doubts. I think most of us question whether we are doing the right thing every now and then; especially when we're feeling a bit drained or overwhelmed. Hope you have a happy and relaxing christmas, so you can recharge your batteries for the new year:)

 

Tbh, I'm not sure if you have to be prepared to go to court if you make a request under CPR. I thought you could use it as a bluff, same as they do;)

[underdog13]

Thanks Fedup - best of luck to you too:)

[underdog13]

Onwards and upwards, indeed:D

 

Tbh, I don't think there's a great deal we can do now until the new year; I'm not sure when their offices close down and we need someone to be there to sign for the recorded deliveries.

 

Thanks for trying your retired policeman friend - be careful of phone charges to mobiles if they're abroad, though. No doubt he'll be back in the new year and well rested and happy to give you some info.

[underdog13]

Didn't realise it was copyrighted! Please don't sue - I've got enough problems at the moment:D;)

[underdog13]

Bless your discretion:D;)

[underdog13]

If your wings are clipped, will you have to have a prop fitted instead?

[underdog13]

Try wine - works even better than chocolate;)

 

Glad we made you smile, Lexis.