Just Recieved A Signed Capital One Agreement

[citizenB]

Hi noomill! but i have hear that if the original signed page of document makes a reference to another page of alleged ts and cs it can be part of the same agreement

 

Your document does reference "overleaf" However, if they were to take you to court, then the burden of proof would be on them. There is nothing to link those 2 pages to one another. There is also the question of the missing (section 23).

 

OH's account was opened in 2003 and the page they have supplied to him as being on the reverse is slightly different to yours and there is no section 23 either.

 

No prescribed terms on either page.

 

On the current t&cs supplied, section 23, has absolutely nothing to do with "use of information" what it applies to is the Governing law. ie This agreement is governed by English law. I see Godmother has 2 versions of section 23

 

£12.00 charges werent applicable until May 2006 so that in itself proves the t&cs they have provided couldnt have been on the reverse or anywhere else of your document and are probably current.

[citizenB]

There is no need to go into detail. What you have received is an application form and a set of 2008 Terms and Conditions. They have not fulfilled your request for a true copy of the credit agreement as laid down by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the account is now in dispute - keep it simple. Ididn't reply to them at all and I haven't heard from them since.

 

 

Absolutely, sunflower, they should know where this document falls flat on it's face. They have a large legal department that could tell them:) There is nothing to link it to the front of the document and of course there are the other discrepancies. Let them work it out for themselves.

[citizenB]

Hi Sunflower, looks as though you are becoming quite an experienced DCA, putter downer

 

Happy New Year

[citizenB]

I think the above letter amended to suit would be a good one to send! and i like the extra issues it brings up such as incorrect headers and asking for arrnagement to be made to view the original!:Dand if they decline it will be another thing i can bring upm if they or another low life DCA attempts to taike any action against me!

 

The letter in post 90 looks pretty good to me. If they decline the request to view the document then I would be pretty certain in my own mind that they dont have anything other than that provided already.

 

I do understand the despair you feel at times..however, know that you can always log on to CAG for assistance and there will always be someone around to cheer you up.

 

From my own experience and hearing of the experience of others, complaining to the FOS might not always be a good idea. If I understand what the FOS are saying correctly, then unless you are going to lose out financially then they arent really interested and will find in favour of the banks. Even if the application form was written on kitchen roll and chewed by the dog.. the FOS will say that the bank has provided you withe the necessary response.

 

This leaves Trading Standards.. using the same format from RMW's thread "complaining to the FOS", you can make a complaint to TS. You do have to go via Consumer Direct first though.

 

Capital One are like MBNA, hard nuts to crack, they believe that UK consumer law doesnt apply to them, however, read round the threads.. most recently davey77's thread and you will find that eventually you can win.

 

In respect of the phone calls, is there any possibility you could get a letter from your husband's GP.. stating that the constant phone calls are stressing him to the detriment of his health. If so, I would do so. Alternatively, regardless of any inconvenience, I would be changing my telephone numbers.

 

Thank you for the click

[citizenB]

Hiya Sunflower,

 

I dont think you are doing yourself any favours by worrying over this so much. I think if you carefully read back from the beginning of your thread you will see the following :

 

The information you typed out so carefully from the page that bears your signature is nothing more and nothing less than you signing to say that Cap1 can process your information.

 

Noomillo60 points out in post 22 that there are NO prescribed terms either on the signature page or within the terms and conditions they have supplied and has provided the relevant information should this be required. The prescribed terms MUST be within the 4 corners of the document either by reference to overleaf or on the signature page.

 

There is no link between the terms and conditions and the signature page. Just because Cap1 say they are part of the same document doesnt make it so without proof. If they are part of the same document then again WHERE are the prescribed terms ??.

 

The more you get involved in convulated letters back n forth to Cap1 the more confused you will become.

 

Is it your intention to complain to the FOS or Trading Standards. If so then do it now before you have to much more paperwork to copy and send to either of these:D

 

If you need to respond to Cap1, Debitas or any other DCA. YOU dont need to explain the discrepancies within the document, they know. They have a legal department to advise them. All you need to remember is that they will need to provide for a court (should it get that far) the original or a confirmed copy of an original document to proceed.

[citizenB]

Sorry, didn't mean noomill, meant Citizen B!!! Sorry CB

 

DD

 

No problem DD, I have been called many things and answer to most

 

Don't you just love it.

 

Can I suggest you add to the fun by introducing a low 'chuckle' when they start getting uppity. As they get more irate this should develope through giggles into a full blown laugh. The results are worth the effort!!

 

David

 

I like this one :D

 

Got an odd letter from Cap 1 today:

 

"I am writing to advise you that Capital One are dealing with your account.

 

It is important that you continue making payments to your account. Payments should be made directly to Capital One unless otherwise notified.

 

You have two payment options for clearing this debt. It is important that you take one of these steps today."

 

etc, etc.

 

Not exactly joined up writing.

 

I don't get the plot either, as the account has been with them for seven years and I haven't paid a bean in ten months.

 

Don't think they rate a gold star.

 

David

 

Ah, isnt that nice.. they give you 2 options to pay.. but they have only one option that will allow them to collect.

 

Sunflower, next time you feel the urge to write to the DCAs, add a paragraph that states you have problem hearing people on the telephone. You dont necessarily have to have poor hearing. I find it difficult sometimes to understand people who are calling from overseas call centres. Those callers (DCAs) who get themselves into a tizzy are also hard to understand.

[citizenB]

Sunflower, I think you are correct in that the charges for investigating by the FOS are not immediate. There has to have been more than one complaint about the same company. Not necessarily from the same person.

 

However, I would be more than surprised if the likes of MBNA , Capital One, HSBC etc arent paying on a regular basis. You would only have to add up the number of threads in the different bank forums to know that more than one complaint has surely been made against nearly all of them.

[citizenB]

Just realised I've managed to get 'enforceable' into that last paragraph 3 times. Is that a record for overuse of a word?

 

 

I worry about you sometimes lexis

[citizenB]

I love how when you demand to be escalated to a supervisor they say:

 

'I am the account manager'

 

Wow, have you been promoted? What's happened to Isha, Balakash, Rona, Puljama... etc etc...

 

I feel honoured... I have about 12 managers on my account

 

I have six Heads of Customer Service with MBNA - do they beat account managers?

 

I was wondering how many you need to get the full set, and do we win a prize when we collect the lot?

 

Chief Operations Officer,

Head of Customer Services

Chief Executive of Customer Satisfaction

 

You are TRUMPED lexis

 

Seriously, Daniella. If they havent provided a copy of a compliant agreement after 3 or 4 attempts then they are unlikely to cave in.. no matter how many well scripted letters you send them.

 

Personally, I would wait until either they or one of their Agents sends a letter threatening litigation or as in Lexis case, where they threatened to remove the batteries from her remote control... then hit them with a letter similar to that in post 58 on Lexis' BOS thread.

[citizenB]

I beat the lot of you - from CrapOne I have had the Director of Recoveries and - wait for it! - the VICE PRESIDENT OF COLLECTIONS!! I laughed out loud at that one!

 

hmph...

 

DD, that sounds like a pretty neat idea to cope with insomnia:)

[citizenB]

Another interesting point just brought up on nosnibors thread is that someone pointed out that Crap One representative signature on nosnibors agreement does not look right and could have been added on after document copied!they pointed out that it looked too black against background of rest of document and resolution looked different or something though i am not a expert on this and just quoting this person.but looking at Crap ones signature on mine if i am right it does look a a bit out of place to rest of document! and very black against background of document and different resolution though the fact that they used a black felt tip pen in mine might explain it and i am no expert probably just clutching at straws in an enthuiastic attempt to throw another spanner at my alleged Crap One agreement!

 

 

Sunflower, if you are sure that the signature has been added on to a photocopy you could test it out. Damp a cottonwool bud and just dab it on the signature.. if it has been added after photocopying then the ink will come off

[citizenB]

Is this a new ploy?

 

OH & I have both been 'terminated' however, OH keeps getting emails stating that latest statement is available online, when trying to log on OH is told to ring for new password.

 

Have absolutely no idea what charges are being added to this account.

 

This is obviously a ploy to get you to phone them. Dont get sucked in.

[citizenB]

Hi Pelham!

Thanks for looking at my agreement and finding their sums dont add up and that i can claim that their table does not reflect correct prescribed terms!:DAnother little thing to throw at them in my next letter! As old Ellie wants me to be to be more specific! in why i dont think the prescribed terms are there!

 

I think I would be a little bit wary of giving too much information over to Capital 1. If they are indeed, producing dodgy documents.. this will give them ample opportunity to produce one that is correct:confused:

 

They have a whole legal department who should KNOW what is wrong with the paperwork.

[citizenB]

Actually Sunflower, it just occurred to me that we are probably looking at this from the wrong viewpoint. Clearly the people who reported you were actually concerned that CAG might get sued by the lady in the photo because you were implying that she was Ellie Renshaw!!!!!!!! I mean, would you, or would any of us, want people to think we were Ellie Renshaw?:eek:

 

I must find your DCA word association game.

 

DDxx

 

This is probably correct DD. Sunflower, I shouldnt think for one moment that it was personal you were cagbotted. You do have to be so very careful what is posted in forums. The site owners could be made responsible.

[citizenB]

Hi all , i dont think crap1 don't know what they are doing ! The account is disputed, ive asked ellie if she has sent a dodgy cca and my web access to their site restricted.

 

today i recieved a....

credit card

 

Did they send a fully compliant agreement with prescribed terms for you to sign:p

 

That'll be the responsible lending side of Cap1 coming out to play:)

 

They get quite upset if you challenge them on this 8-)

 

Hi sunflower & other crap1 fans

 

just had to tell you all about my letter from Red this morning I quote, "after reviiewing the account Cap1 is prepared to take a commercial view and as a guesture of goodwill are prepared to discontinue this matter".

 

Balance outstanding on the letter 0.00

not to be cynical but I do wonder how long it will be before I hear from someone else but at least I have this nice letter to send anyone who tries again.

 

This sounds like very good news. Keep the letter safe and send a photocopy to any DCA who might try their luck in the future.

[citizenB]

I think there are a few of us that would be interested in this, Lexis.

Didnt Reallymadwoman organise something similar for another CC company ?

[citizenB]

I have just CCA'd Crap1 and look forward to the scrap and would like to join.

Currently I am on benefits and so can put in all the N forms etc for free AND I walk past their head office on a fortnightly basis.

 

Interestingly I have started receiving telephone calls and I upset the 'lady' last night as I refused to go through the ID procedure despite her telling me she had some time sensitive information. I am curious as to what it was. 12+ 1 to go.

 

Ho hum

 

GK

 

This is usually a one side deal ie.. they will accept a reduced amount in F&F settlement. They will mark your credit reference file partially settled. They will then either make a deal to collect the rest from you over a period of time or sell the balance on. Do not be fooled into thinking that by accepting their deal (unless properly documented and signed) is actually the full and final settlement they are advising.

 

The time sensitive element means they are possibly thinking of passing your account onwards to either their inhouse collection agents Debitas or to an outside DCA.

[citizenB]

Not sure CB but I think I'll pm her and have a word.

 

My thinking on my own personal one at the moment is to ask them directly whether it was one document or two. I'm going to try and format a letter this weekend doing that. That gives a way forward whatever they answer. If they try and avoid the issue, you can show they're being obstructive. If they flat out say it's a true document, you can make a request to see it. When they ignore/don't let you, you can again show they're being obstructive. If they say 'oops, our mistake, it is two different docs', then it's a nice easy complaint about attempting to mislead.

 

If everyone did this and got up to the point where they have received a reply one way or another, then we can take it further, showing x amount of people have gone down this route and all have been misled/ignored etc.

 

What do you all think of that as a starting point?

 

I know it's going to take time to do it, but obviously we have to have some sort of similar experience in order to make a valid complaint, otherwise it won't stand up and it can be brushed aside.

 

I must point out when I posited the idea it was just that - asking whether it would be possible or not. I'm quite happy to carry on with it and find out what we need, but if anyone has other ideas please say, because anything I do would only be based on my personal thoughts otherwise!

 

If I can get a little letter done this weekend and anyone fancies using it to see what responses we get, just let me know.

 

Lexis:)

 

I think this is a briliant idea.. yes please, I would love to have a copy of your letter x

[citizenB]

They seem to be good at wasting paper... going by the rate of rubbish t&c they send out;)

 

Hmmm, I wonder if we can get one of the Green peeps involved regarding the destruction of so many trees and of course the baby bushes battered to death for the envelopes !

 

Well knock me down with a feather....

 

Ellie appears to exist... according to google and facebook!

 

Googled Ellie Renshaw and got a facebook listing up, logged in under my name and clicked on view friends... most from nottingham and lots from capital one!

 

Coincidence..... I dont think so.

 

verity is also on there :D

 

Umm, so what have you done, left your details as a friend

[citizenB]

Has anybody got Capital One to lay off at all???

 

 

I'd like to know that - but then I never look in the 'won' list, so that may be the answer:D

 

Lexis:)

 

Willtheywontthey asked the question above. Yes, davey77 took Capital One to court and Won.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/171391-davey77-capital-one.html

[citizenB]

Oh well am starting to take pinkys and others advice now and leaving them alone at moment!My motto with crap one is at moment if they leave me alone i will leave them alone!but at least there are some lovely letters i can fire of if they do start to bully me again!

 

That's the spirit:lol: Sometimes, less is more:)

[citizenB]

But surely unless you have closure on it in one way or another they can still add defaults to your credit record, or start on the DCA track again? So, if they decide after 5 years that they're hacked off, they can stick a D on with the CRAs and you end up having to go through court to have it removed; or start DCA after DCA trying to reclaim (as we all know they don't exactly pass on prior details telling them there's no point!)?

 

Sorry, not having a go at all, just trying to understand. Everyone has their own way of doing it, and I just want to know if it's better to be in the dark and have it hanging over you until it's statute barred (even though you'll probably be fine), or to have the initial hassle (which is a lot, and over probably 18 months) but get rid of it once and for all?

 

Seems like 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other really:rolleyes:

 

Why can't they just do the right thing and give in gracefully when they're stymied?? It would just make everything so much easier for everyone!

 

Lexis:)

 

I agree with you, lexis. I would be nice for it to be over and done with. But the likes of Capital One are not going to admit to being in the wrong and just stop adding defaults with the CRA methinks. I rather suspect they are waiting for people to take THEM to court.

[citizenB]

Hehe:D My OH thinks that too Sunflower. Trouble is I make much nicer cups of tea than he does, so he'd never be able to let me go:D

 

Sunflower, that coach trip you were arranging.. can we divert to lexis for a cup of tea

[citizenB]

well u can send them a letter saying any uninvited cawllers will be shot

 

[citizenB]

Skipping out of the mist carrying tubing, a funnel and a steaming kettle...

They're all tarred with the same brush, so any DCA is well deserving of a nice hot enema in my book!

 

 

:lol: Oh dear, I can see demands on your time.. please form an orderly queue for Nurse Elsa's Cap 1 exterminator :lol: