Cabot insist this marbles/HFC CCa is enforceable??

[Chickenlegs]

Cabot have sent me this Application Form in reply to my CCA request. 4 pages of T&Cs were also enclosed. They are insisting that this complies with their obligations and that they are now "entitled to resume collections......".

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

Chickenlegs

[rory32]

If they want to state that this is your credit agreement then that's fine as it's completely unenforceable. You can now tell them to bog off.

[42man]

Send them this recorded CL....

 

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request and I am therefore advising that the matter is now in dispute . Whilst the matter is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

[42man]

Absolutely agree with Rory on this one CL...

 

valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

[Chickenlegs]

Rory32 and 42man, Cheers both of you, will get the letter off straightaway! You've taken another weight off our minds - thankyou.

 

rgds

Chickenlegs

[P_D]

I'd also like to say that this is useful, considering Cabot returned a application form (helpfully labelled by them) to my request. The advice I'd had on my own thread was to just ignore them, but given that they have just written to me requestting contact, or they will pass me back to their collection team, I'm going to send them the same letter.

 

Although I may sign it off with "Merry Christmas". Thank you also, Rory32 and 42man.

[bladeboy]

If you don't mind me asking, how old (ish) is the account?

 

I have one with them that I think pre-dates 2001 so it would be useful to know what the state of play with their agreements is around that time - if applicable.

[42man]

This one looks like 2001 Blade...

[bladeboy]

From your experience then 42man, would mine be similar if it's created around the same time?

 

I have CCA'd 8 creditors so far and only had 2 bona-fide agreements back. One from Marbles Loans that dates 2005 (so they should have sorted their act out by then) and one from Egg who are pretty good at the agreement side of things.

 

CrapQuest have SD'd me and I'm at court for the hearing next year - still no CCA from them!

 

Cabot have told me that MBNA can't find it so far - but they anticipate that they wil be able to - chances?

[bladeboy]

Had a reply yet Chicken?

 

They have sent me similar.

[UnmoderatetheNet]

If Cabot told me I was on fire I would have to see the flames before I believed them

[Chickenlegs]

Hi Bladeboy, no haven't received a reply from them yet but I bet I'll get a Christmas card from them soon!!!!!!!!

 

Chickenlegs

[Chickenlegs]

Hello again, we've been going around in circles with this one!! Cabot are still insisting that the Application Form they sent us is the genuine CCA and we keep telling them it isn't.

 

Then Morgan Solicitors joined in, so we CCA'd them and they sent us GUESS WHAT..........exactly the same thing along with our £1 PO.

 

Would you suggest sending another Account In Dispute letter or just let them stew?

 

Chickenlegs

[havinastella]

Just invite them to take you to court!

 

Thats all you can do really.

 

Jogs

[UnmoderatetheNet]

Thank you for your letter received xxxx 2009, the contents of which are noted.

Quite frankly, I am surprised of the need to remind a firm of debt collectors the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement request (Consumer Credit Act, 1974).

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the OC for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as DCA cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

If you proceed with legal action, I will vigorously defend any such action by your company.

Should you now persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by DCA under the Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

If it comes to the issue of costs in front of a judge I will be raising the points mentioned as well as showing him previous correspondence.

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you in writing.

[Chickenlegs]

Thanks havinastella and unmoderatetheNet will get that letter off asap.

kind regards

Chickenlegs:)

[batman1956]

Had a couple of calls from Francis Ingram and on checking the number it is F.I.R.E who are also Cabot, they are chasing something in my wifes maiden name and we have been married over 15 years. It will definately be statute barred. Watch out for the different names!!! Anyhow told them to go and phish elsewhere and I was accused of being agressive. Thats a laugh little old me being agressive.

[Chickenlegs]

Have received the following letter from Cabot in answer to my 'a/c in dispute' letter of 8th Dec '08.

 

 

Second page:

 

 

What do you think? Agree with them or typical dca letter? Please let me have your thoughts.

Kind regards

CL

[lickthewallfatboy]

crap

 

there is no agreement,they can waffle and bluster all they like

 

invite them to take you to court.....no....insist they do!!

[Chickenlegs]

Hi lickthewallfatboy thanks for that. I did wonder if they had been doing their homework but obviously not eh? The above letter actually crossed with the letter that UnmoderatetheNet suggested I send (Post 15). They must have received it because I had a phone call from them last night - don't know what they wanted mind you as I wouldn't give them personal details!! Aaaahhh, poor dca!!!

 

rgds CL

[UnmoderatetheNet]

It all sounds good on paper. There getting very technical aren’t they?

 

If they are so convinced, why are they even bothering to explain themselves and not simply sending a letter before action?

 

I would be tempted to write back and ask them if a judge would agree.

[Chickenlegs]

Hi UnmoderatetheNet. I sent them the letter you suggested (Post 15) but it crossed in the post with theirs. Can only wait for their next move now, will let you know.

rgds CL

[UnmoderatetheNet]

Given there reply I would send them this

 

Obviously you have read a different copy of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to me. I would suggest you find someone within you organisation who can actually read and understand English. Ask them to read S 60 and 61 over to you. When you have read this then have a read of S 127 and you will see why I believe you are talking errant balderdash. If you are foolish enough to believe the rubbish you have constitutes a properly executed CCA I look forward to contesting the matter in court. Your continued pursuit of this unenforceable debt is in my opinion a clear breach of the CPUTR 2008 and any further harrassment will lead to a report being made to the appropriate authorities with a view to a prosecution under the said act.

[Chickenlegs]

Hello UnmoderatetheNet, have today received the 'Your account has been escalated to our Pre Litigation Department' letter with the usual threats of Warrant of Execution (beheading do you think?), Charging Order, Attachment of Earnings Order, Order to Obtain Information or External Debt Collection Agency/Legal Agency.

 

Should I send the letter you have suggested now or wait to see what, if anything, comes through?

 

Much appreciate your help with this one.

rgds CL

[lickthewallfatboy]

there is no such thing as a "pre litigation dept"-the letter deserves to go into your "pre bin dept"!

 

it is a tactic designed to threaten you.....don't buckle