ihpj vs. HFC Bank (Marbles.com) - My Contribution

[ihpj]

Dear All,

 

I have joined your ranks after some Google'ing and idle web surfing. Have spent the last few weeks lurking on the forum - reading up on people's experiences and doing my own homework before deciding to get stuck in!

 

However, before I start my own thread, I would like to say that I would in no way know my way around the CCA and be aware of these issues if not for The Gurus helping out and other people sharing their own experiences. So, in true homage: I am not worthy! I am not worthy! I am not worthy!

 

So, this is my story and how I have taken on HFC Bank / Marbles Credit Card. I hope by posting here not only shall I benefit from input but also encourage others to take the same journey on...

 

 

Background:

 

Been a Marbles Credit Card Customer since 02/2000 - never missed a payment, never late, always paid on time and used account responsibly. Have NO isues with DCAs/CCJ/default EVER - but I have decided to take them on [with your help!] ...

Edited January 11, 2009 by ihpj

[ihpj]

After having read many threads - in particular those of RedSue and Phatram - I have decided to issue a CCA request against HFC/Marbles.

 

I sent my letter by 1st Class Recorded delviery on 14th November 2008 and received a reply back, dated 2nd December 2008, delviered by Special Delivery on 3rd December 2008.

 

I recieved an almost identical response to what Phatram received in his thread - the covering letter can be found: http://www.frontiers.plus.com/hfc1.jpg while the attached document in response to the CCA is: http://www.frontiers.plus.com/hfc2.jpg.

[ihpj]

Now, thanks totally to these forums, I am not worried by the response received from HFC - as I beleive what they ahve provided is only an application, lacks the prescribed information, and does not comply with the original CCA request.

 

Consequently I sent the following reply to them, again 1st Class Recorded:

 

------------

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: Credit Card Acct. # / Your Ref.:

 

I write with regards to your letter dated 2nd December 2008, in response to my formal request exercising my rights under the Consumer Credit Act s(77/8 ).

 

You are no doubt aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation. As this request was made in writing and correctly on Friday 14 November 2008, this period has now lapsed.

 

I regret to note that, by supplying a copy of a priority application and confirming brief details in your covering letter, you believe these satisfy the requirement. As I am sure you are aware that Consumer Credit Act s(60)(1) and s(61)(1) are very clear in their description of what does conform – and the priority application is just that – an application – and does not contain the required prescribed terms as specifically laid out under these sections. Therefore what you have provided does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act. Consequently it is improperly executed and becomes wholly unenforceable, even in a Court of Law – and this will be deemed a complete defence to any Court action that you may consider taking.

 

I remain mystified as to why you have not forwarded the required information in the first instance and come to the conclusion that no such agreement actually exists. The absence of a correctly executed credit agreement is a very clear legal dispute and any legal action you pursue will be averred as both unlawful and vexatious and I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

The Consumer Credit Act s(77)(6) is quite clear on this point:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. And

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Consequently, while we remain in dispute:

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

• You may not pass this account to any third party.

• You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

• You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

…and the Consumer Credit Act is clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. If there is no regulated agreement, as appears to be the case, then you cannot issue a default as I have not breached any valid, regulated agreement.

On the advice of the Financial Ombudsman, I am now requesting a final decision in this matter from you. Should this decision not meet with my satisfaction, then I will pursue the matter both through the Courts and Ombudsman. The maximum timescale for you to give a final response to any complaint is eight (8 ) weeks. This time runs from the date of my original complaint, in this case that is the request for a true copy of the credit agreement. Therefore, you must provide me with a final response in this matter, including your proposed actions for this account, no later than Friday 9th January 2009.

 

In closing please consider this letter as a statutory notice under the Data Protection Act s(10) to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies on the grounds that the processing, or continued processing by you of the said data, will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or distress to me and my family members; and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998, to do so would be unwarranted. I will also ask any Court to order production of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the Consumer Credit Act was signed by me in respect of this alleged debt.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days, provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’ – you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Yours faithfully,

[My Printed Name]

Edited December 4, 2008 by ihpj

[ihpj]

Now I cannot and DO NOT take any credit for my letter in reply, this was taken from the contributions made by OTHERS (RedSue in particular) on this forum and I thank them ALL for their form of words and time taken to draft a response.

 

I expect HFC to come back and assure me that what they have already submitted is in full compliance with the CCA request and that I am now going into default etc. - followed by the highlight of this chain of events is the contact from a DCA

 

Any advice, feedback, comments welcome - I hope I have follwoed the advice on here correctly and should now start hunkering down for a battle

Edited December 4, 2008 by ihpj

[fedup74]

Hi ihpj just wishing you luck against HFC:) Have they not even attempted to give you a copy of Terms and Conditions- how rude!! I don't think you have anything to worry about if they think that is your executed agreement:D Good luck with these clowns:)

[HFCMAN]

Just to let you know what they will respond with - they will tell you that what they have provided is the credit agreement, and they will refer you to the box that says 'This is a credit agreement under cca, sign only if you are bound by its terms' etc...

[fedup74]

There are no terms though, that is the problem!

[ihpj]

Nice to see that I haven't muddled myself!

 

Now I would be grateful for some advice:

 

Should I be looking to cancel my D/D now or wait for them to send their second reply - bearing in mind I am unlikely to hear back from them before my D/D goes out (around the 10th of every month). I don't want to be seen as provoking a confrontation; however seeing as I have sent them a reply headed 'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY' the D/D should be cancelled forthwith?

 

Many thanks!

[fedup74]

If you have already sent the account in dispute letter, seeing as how they have supplied you with an unenforceable application, if it was me I would cancel the DD now (If it was me;))

[phatram]

subbing:)

[phatram]

Nice to see that I haven't muddled myself!

 

Now I would be grateful for some advice:

 

Should I be looking to cancel my D/D now or wait for them to send their second reply - bearing in mind I am unlikely to hear back from them before my D/D goes out (around the 10th of every month). I don't want to be seen as provoking a confrontation; however seeing as I have sent them a reply headed 'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY' the D/D should be cancelled forthwith?

 

Many thanks!

 

I would cancel the DD. Be ready for phone calls to start and DO NOT discuss anything with them on the phone. Calmly ask for everything in writing, tell them you are terminating the call and then hang up.

Take a look at the following sticky,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167050-recording-telephone-calls.html?highlight=telephone+harrassment

[ihpj]

First off, many thanks for the advice...can confirm I have today cancelled the D/D instruction with my bank. I can't see any benefit of taking a contradictory stand - either you hold them in default (that is the right term isn't it?) of the CCA (by not providing a true copy of the executed agreement) and do not acknowledge any debt - or you accept they haven't complied but still choose to pay up.

 

Can't see any benefit in the latter approach, so with your help/advice/ assistance HERE WE GO!

[phatram]

Good luck.

We cannot let these robbing sods get away with this any longer.

Vive la revolution

[ihpj]

Having done more reading and research around this sort of topic, I am keen to avoid any unneccessary down time - so should I be writing to the FOS and TS now or should I wait?

 

I appreciate that formally approaching these bodies might be anything less than useful, but atleast another formal complaint will be lodged and cause inconvnience to HFC.

 

What do we think?

Edited December 7, 2008 by ihpj

[traceyb918]

Good Luck ihpj im probably at the same stage as you Tracey v HFC (Marbles) PPI, i'm also trying to get my PPI back.

[ihpj]

I always felt PPI was a con, especially for someone like me who is in a very secure government job. So I never took it, ever, on any loan or credit thingy. I would not have known about my options if not for the internet and this site.

 

Give it to 'em Traceyb918 - we're all here with you!

[ihpj]

** UPDATE **

 

Just ran a check on the Royal Mail website, have received confirmation that my SECOND letter was delivered to HFC on 05/12/08.

 

D/D [was] scheduled to go out on 10/12 - so will expect fireworks soon

 

Any advice on whether or not I should be writing to FOS/TS yet - or waiting still? Could someone point me in the direction of a standard letter please?

[ihpj]

Just realised, the [home] phone number they hold on file is now 'out of service' due to my having to ask BT to install a brand new line a few months back - the only phone number (if at all) they have for me is my mobile - so I doubt very much I will be haranged by phone.

 

Have to wait and see though...

[ihpj]

Still nothing from HFC/Marbles. Not sure if I should be concerned/ worried

 

Anyhoo - I guess they fall into criminal default 30 days after the 12 working day period has elapsed. My question is, does them falling into such default give me any leverage? I know I can officially complain to the OFT/FOS etc. etc. but does it make any real practical differnece to me?

 

I'm guessing that they're moving me straight to a default situation and passing on my 'debt' to a DCA - which would be fiun - or ... well who knows what they may be thinking. Will update when I hear back!

Edited December 17, 2008 by ihpj

[fedup74]

Hi ihpj they go into default 12 working days from receipt of your request. If you know the date it was signed for count 12 working days from then. If you don't know the day it was delivered (although you should if you sent it rec. del!) you would count 12+2 working days to allow for postage. The 30 days was revoked so it is just the 12+2 working days. Either way they are in default!

[ihpj]

Well, new week about to start - do wonder what will drop through my letter box. Am a little concerned that I do not appear to have had anything back (positive or negative) from them...

 

However as my statement is generated on/around 20th of every month - will be interesting to see if they have loaded any default/penalty charges to my account. I therefore wonder if I should write to them protesting at applying penalty charges while we are in dispute - or just leave it?

Edited December 22, 2008 by ihpj

[ihpj]

** UPDATE ACTION **

 

Received my FIRST phonecall from HFC. The giveaway was the long delay in being connected to their representative after I had picked up the phone. Thankfully I quickly realised who the call was from and got right on the ball (I promise to be better next time!):

 

HFC: Hello can I speak with Mr. ihpj please?

ME: Whose calling please?

HFC: My name is , calling from HFC Bank. Is that Mr. ihpj?

ME: I'm sorry, what is it in connection with?

HFC: As I said, I am calling from HFC Bank. I need to go through security with you first before I can ...

ME: I'm sorry but I am not in any position to tell you who I am unless I know who you are.

HFC: If you could call us back on the following numb...

ME: No thank you .

 

So I guess I gave them my new home phone number at some point

 

Ah well, will invest in Caller ID .

[traceyb918]

ihpj, I know that delay now, ive got caller id but is still answer just for the fun of hanging up straight away. ha

[hilaryfrances]

I have been waiting for over a year for the HFC to give me the total amount I have paid in PPI they just ignore letters and so far the have ignored the FOS

[ihpj]

UPDATE:

 

Got a call from HFC about 20 MINs. ago - that telltale delay gave it away - and the conversation went a little something like this:

 

ME: Hello? Hello?

HFC: Can I speak to Mr ...

ME: Hello? I'm sorry I can't hear anything .

 

 

As for my December monthly statement I haven't had it through yet - which is odd as my usual post has come through no problem.