Locked in car park

[Patma]

I've put something in the Campaign forum. Link:CAG political party

Thanks bedlington, I'm on my way over to take a look.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes although it wont solve the problems of the 1000s fiddled in expenses.....he was a sitting duck-the only reason he has announced it is prob because GB was getting very very jittery.

What they seem to forget is that the voters wont forget.

They simply dont have enough time for that to happen.

 

 

Yes as regards Freds case its at least moving in some direction.

In most cases allocation is decided upon without a hearing-so this tells you something.

The danger of course is getting a deputy district Judge who has not really got the punch or experience to direct as you would expect-thats no disrespect to the Courts its a fact we sometimes have to acknowledge.

Freds hearing therefore will benefit from an experienced Judge who will be prepared to look at everything in front of him.....and ask questions about those things that ARENT in front of him that SHOULD BE.

 

 

Another bank holiday then....Gawd I have lost count of them now.

[MARTIN3030]

I am away from next Wednesday for a week-No doubt there will be something by then.

If you need any help dont be afraid to hit the report button.

Some of the team are familiar with the case.

[Patma]

Thanks Martin, are you going somewhere nice? Hope all goes well for you and I'll hope to have some good news for you when you get back.

 

What they seem to forget is that the voters wont forget.

I agree with you about that and actually I think it's just going to whet the public's appetite for more, now he's got the chop.

[MARTIN3030]

There was a mention last night that Frank Fields would be a good contender.

I dont know if you remember Franks history-he led Liverpools oppositions to Maggies poll tax as an MP -he was promptly thrown into Walton Jail....Frank is my choice he is one of us and knows his roots.

He did well to come back from there to where he is today.

No way would he put up with any gentlemens clubs.

Ha Ha...I bet there wont be many too quick to vote for him !!

[MARTIN3030]

"Thanks Martin, are you going somewhere nice?"

 

Am going to see my GF in Ukraine (Kiev)

I couldnt get there at Xmas and we did not see eachother since last October-although we are in contact every day

[MARTIN3030]

So a distant relationship......rather like the Government and the Electorate dont you think ?

[ScarletPimpernel]

There was a mention last night that Frank Fields would be a good contender.

 

As it happens I am going to a Reception at Parliament tomorrow; Frank Fields is one of the MPs (of all parties) who is attending. There are few Labour MPs I have time for, but Frank is certainly one of them.

[Patma]

Am going to see my GF in Ukraine (Kiev)

I couldnt get there at Xmas and we did not see eachother since last October-although we are in contact every day :grin:

 

Have a wonderful time Martin, you deserve it.

 

Yep I remember Frank Field, and I reckon he would do a good job,although that would mean yet another labour person in the job. ( it would reduce their majority a bit more though so that's a good thing )

How about Norman Baker,if they want someone from another party? I don't know if he wants the job, but he seems pretty honest.

[Patma]

As it happens I am going to a Reception at Parliament tomorrow;

 

That should be interesting SP, you'll have to tell us all about it when you get back.

The last time I went there it was to meet up with an old boyfriend who'd got himself elected to Parliament. Unfortunately he's in the news now as one of the fiddlers

Que sera etc.......

[MARTIN3030]

As it happens I am going to a Reception at Parliament tomorrow; Frank Fields is one of the MPs (of all parties) who is attending. There are few Labour MPs I have time for, but Frank is certainly one of them.

 

Will you beasking for expenses ?

 

Yes for me a man of the people-he was one of the old stable who Kinnock regarded as a Militant-but I guess they were all tarred with the same brush as Derek Hatton-who WAS only in it for what he could get....still he was clever with it-they never did manage to pin anything on him despite a number of SFO investigations.

[MARTIN3030]

They did an interview with Ann Widdecombe (not sure how its spelled) Interviewer said to her " I hear your names in the frame".....no way she said I heard that too only 10 minutes ago.

She said "Look I hae made it absolutely clear I will be leaving at the next election "

Interviewer said .....but maybe there will be a case of having a caretaker speaker for a few......"No No No she said"......Then she stormed off saying "I have better and more important things to do than listen to this nonsense"....Interviewer was stuck for words and said....Er....I think she has cleared up that point.....actually she is always quite blunt....."

Ha Ha....what a battleaxe-never a dull moment when she is around-and dont care what she says

[Patma]

The court have written to Fred today saying the judge has called a Directions Hearing, not an Allocation Hearing as they told him over the phone. It's to be heard on July 1st and half an hour is allowed for it.

It also says the venue may be moved to another court and it may be passed to another judge.

What's all that about any ideas?

Does this mean we can present the draft order for directions again and ask the judge to enforce it?

There's no mention btw of the application for judgment by default in respect of Fred's counterclaim, so I guess he's going to have to write or phone and enquire what's happened to that.

Something else I noticed, which may be nothing, but I thought now that a counterclaim exists, that it would be mentioned in the details box where it gives the claimants and defendant's names. I thought it would refer to Fred as defendant and part 20 claimant for instance, but it doesn't. It worries me a bit that there is nothing on paper at all referring to the counterclaim. They didn't even send notification that it had been issued. We only have verbal info that it was issued on 22nd April.

[heliosfa]

just want to say good luck Patma!

 

Just a question, how is it going with getting the Caution out of the way?

 

H

[MARTIN3030]

Directions hearing sounds appropriate.

This is prob a standard notification-hence the mention of it being moved.

Its very rare to have the same Judge anyway.

So the Judge will look at the issues and is likely to rule that the case will be allocated to Small Claims-since this hasnt been done yet ?

Its just formalities-usually you would just get a notice. telling you of the allocation-but the Court are acknowledging that before they issue allocation they need to be clear on all points.

Again-Fred should ask at this hearing that the draft orders he asked for previously be issued-he has nothing to lose by trying.

It also gives Fred the chance to get the answers to any other points he is unclear of-including the matter of the counterclaim.

Until the hearing theres not much that can be done-except of course trying to strengthen Freds case by getting any further evidence before then.

[Patma]

just want to say good luck Patma!

 

Just a question, how is it going with getting the Caution out of the way?

Thanks for the good wishes. There hasn't been much progress yet with the caution, but now there should be a lull in the court stuff, Fred's planning on focusing on that.

A Freedom of Information request has gone to the police to ask for their general rules regarding the issuing of cautions for the offence of criminal damage. When that comes he can compare what happened in his case with what is supposed to happen and that should form the basis of an appeal.

[Patma]

Its just formalities-usually you would just get a notice. telling you of the allocation-but the Court are acknowledging that before they issue allocation they need to be clear on all points.

 

A notice was sent giving a court date of 22nd July for an hour and a half and notification of it being a small claims track hearing.That was a few weeks ago now, soon after we sent in the draft order for directions which was ignored.

Fred wrote and queried it though. I'm guessing the judge got fed up of being nagged. Every time he's issued a decision or not given reasons , he gets a letter back;)

There'll probably be another one on the way soon asking for his decision on the application for judgment by default on the counterclaim.

 

Not long now, Martin before you're jetting off on your trip. Are you all ready to go?

The weather's brightening up down here today ready for the bank holiday, so maybe summers going to get started just in time for you.

[Patma]

I had hoped to have some good news, but it hasn't worked out like that.

Fred applied for a pro bono barrister to represent him, but it's been turned down on the grounds that they don't consider he is likely to win the case.

Oh well, we'll see if we can show them we can win:p

 

The directions hearing is looming (1st July) so we're starting to get prepared for that.

Can anyone explain what to expect please and what preparations might need to be made?

[MARTIN3030]

Its difficult to say Patma-but this directions hearing/case management is likely to focus on the loose ends that appear to need sorting in order to proceed to a full hearing.This is therefore Freds chance to ask the Court to consider the behaviour of the other side-and once again highlight the difficulties it has placed in defending,given their non compliance with those things Fred needs to properly prepare his defence.

[Patma]

Hi Martin, Hope your trip went well and you had a great time.

What part is the other side likely to play? Any ideas?

There hasn't been any response by the court to the application for judgment by default even though Fred wrote and enquired as to why he'd heard nothing.

As far as we know there has still been no defence submitted to the counterclaim and yet they seem to be allowed to get away with it.

Would we be able to get an answer to this as well maybe?

[Patma]

Another thought. If the judge were to implement the draft order for directions we submitted a while back, we'd hardly have any time to prepare a proper defence because the hearing is set for July 22nd, just 3 weeks later and you can be sure the other side would take their time in complying.

I guess we'd have to ask for a stay to prepare.

[MARTIN3030]

I dont think it will be stayed-more likely that orders would be made for exchange.

But given that there is already defaults on previous orders,its a mess to put it mildly.

Was the default judgement requested by letter or on notice using N244 ?

 

I think it would be good to get some legal bods have a look here.

Is there any chance that you could post up a resume of whats happened by date ?

you know something like;

 

22/05/2006 claim recd ....

 

15/06/2006 filed acknowledgement

 

etc etc...

[Patma]

Thanks Martin, yes I agree it's a mess.

The default judgment was requested twice on form N227.

The reason a second one was submitted was because the first one was ignored, so Fred delivered a second one (about a month later, I think) with a letter explaining that he had no response to his first request and in case it had been mislaid he was submitting a second and that was also ignored.

The resume is a good idea and I'll get onto it as soon as poss. I have to go out today, but will try and get it posted tomorrow.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Patma
typo

[MARTIN3030]

ok no probs.

So are you saying the first one was ignored despite paying the fee ?

There would have been a fee payable-did he pay the second ?

[Patma]

So are you saying the first one was ignored despite paying the fee ?

There would have been a fee payable-did he pay the second ?

 

There is no fee payable to request judgment by default using form N227. There's another way of requesting it apparently using the form which should be sent to the claimant when their claim is issued,and that's free too, but in Fred's case they never bothered to send it.

He was only able to get confirmation that his counterclaim had been issued by making an enquiry to find out.

After his first completed form N227 was submitted and ignored he thought maybe he'd sent it in too soon or maybe they'd mislaid it, so that's why he submitted a second one several weeks later, but that's been ignored too. Even his letter asking to be informed of the outcome of his request for judgment by default has been ignored.