Never signed agreement! ** WON**

[mike77]

Received a final demand letter from Metropolitan Credit Services on Friday, rang them immediately and informed them i was recording the call, even though i wasnt. I told them that this account was still in dispute and until the dispute was sorted they have no right to chase this money. I also informed them that I had yet to recieve a response from HSBC after my CCA request and that they have until 20/11/08 to do so. MCS said they would now put this account on hold again as "theres not really much we can do with it at the moment in the present circumstances"...It felt great being in total control with them.

[johnnymitch]

Well done mike, that's sorted them out!

 

As HSBC's collection agency, I think they just trawl the database to find cases they can chase for money:rolleyes:..... a lot of people will cough up, because they don't know any better ......... Knowledge is power / control.... as you've just found out - .

They'll probably just refer it back to HSBC proper, or flag it - 'this guy knows the game, leave him alone .........' LOL!

[Josie8]

Let the games begin..................

[mike77]

Good morning everyone!, I have still not received a reply from HSBC after my CCA request which was posted on 3/11/08 (received and signed by them on 04/11/08.what is the best course of action to take now?, do i wait another few days to see if anything comes through?, Do i now inform the organisations that i told them i would if they did not comply?

Edited November 21, 2008 by mike77
date error

[johnnymitch]

Hi Mike ,

I'd say if you don't get anything in Monday's post you've given them long enough .

Complain to FOS and let HSBC know you've done it .......

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm

 

This may spark a reaction from them if they know you're serious.....

[mike77]

hello again, I have now informed the financial ombudsmen that HSBC have not replied to my CCA request, they received my second request on 4th Nov 08 so the time has now well and truly passed!, i had originally contacted the FOS on 26/09/08 to log the complaint against HSBC so now the 8 week time period has passed and so i have returned the complaint form to FOS, i have informed HSBC what i have done. I did this by ringing them and i was told that the local branch are still trying to locate my agreement. shall i put something in writing to HSBC or shall i wait to see what the FOS do?

[johnnymitch]

Hi mike ,

 

Well done on informing FOS ........ I would say write to HSBC , telling them you've re-started your complaint the Ombudsman about their lack of compliance ......

 

I wouldn't bother with the local branch , send it Recorded Delivery to :

 

HSBC Bank Plc

Service Quality Team

Arlington Business Centre

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

Telephone contact with the bank is futile, they don't listen and you have no record of the conversation .....

[mike77]

Cheers Johnny, Ill get something put in writing now informing them.....was kinda funny when i was told the local branch were "still trying to locate my agreement".... if it aint on my file then where else do they look!!!!! top of filing cabinets??? under desks????..maybe i should volunteer my services for a day and give them a hand searching for it!!!

[johnnymitch]

[mike77]

Hello again!, i informed HSBC in writing that the Financial Ombudsman have been informed about the failed CCA request, on friday 5/12/08 i received a response from HSBC, unfortunately i don't have access to a scanner so unable to show on here exactly what i was sent, but basically it was a few pages of the terms of the agreement from the managed loan but the page where i would sign was missing. I know that telephone calls are not recommended on here but i phoned HSBC straight away and told them they have not supplied me with all the details and they informed me they would re-open the request. I have just rang them again now to confirm they did this and was assured they have requested the full details again. i was wondering if it would be worth my while sending them another letter asking them outright if they have the signed agreement in their posession at all? (i know for a fact they do not as i never signed one), so rather than them trying to fob me off continually sending me the wrong info thought this course of action may be best. was wondering if anyone thought that asking them for a simple "yes or no" answer was worth doing. I suppose if i have something in writing from them confirming they dont have it then this would be worth its weight in "annual interest charges under a managed loan" (i think these charges are considerably more than gold)

Edited December 8, 2008 by mike77
spelling mistake

[Castlebest]

Hiya Mike, the reason we say don't phone them is because of the number of times these phone calls have been denied at a later date.

 

I would write confirming your conversation and confirm the name of the person you spoke to if you have one, at least their promise will be on record then

 

pete

[mike77]

Thanks Pete, Ill get something put in writing to them and I will just ask them outright if they have it!, suppose that wont do any harm!

[freddyj]

hi mike,

 

any luck with the sexy bird in the branch?

[mike77]

Hey there Freddy, was kinda hoping she would ring me but as yet nothing! ha.

 

Anyway i sent HSBC a letter on 10/12/08 telling them that they have yet to provide me with a copy of the original signed agreement and if they do not send it in 14 days then i will assume that they no longer have it (they dont....i know everyones probably sick of me saying it but i never signed one) i pretty much used the template that rory32 suggested on page one on this thread. I just altered it a little and deleted bits here and there to suit my particular case.

 

Ive also had a letter from the financial ombudsman saying they will look into my complaint and in around 2 months time they will be able to have an adjudicator look at it and decide an outcome.... does anyone think it best if for the moment i let the FOS decide or am i still ok to go ahead and fight HSBC at the same time? Would the FOS decide in my favour purely on the basis of there not being a signed agreement?

 

Im actually starting to bore myself now im waffling that much! It really was a rough weekend!!

[johnnymitch]

Hi Mike

 

does anyone think it best if for the moment i let the FOS decide

or am i still ok to go ahead and fight HSBC at the same time?

 

A double -pronged attack might get results , especially if , as you say , they can't back it up with a signed agreement ........ point out that your case is with FOS and suggest it might save FOS and the court's time if they just admitted their lack of a document and gave in .......

[rory32]

Yep, there's no harm in giving them a wee prod

[mike77]

Hello again everyone!, Happy new year and all that jazz.

I sent a letter to HSBC as i said i would stating they have still not complied with my CCA request and i now required them to zero the account and remove the default. well i finally got a letter back from them stating that they are preparing for their response to the FOS (as the eight weeks has passed since i first logged my complaint with them). HSBC say they are now going to await what the FOS says and that they will abide by any decision they make.

Does anyone know if the FOS would find in my favour purely on the basis that there is no signed agreement? obviously im sure HSBC can detail what loans ive had and show transactions to prove it but is the absence of a signed agreement totally damning for them?

Edited January 2, 2009 by mike77
submitted without finishing

[mike77]

anyone?

[Castlebest]

Does anyone know if the FOS would find in my favour purely on the basis that there is no signed agreement? obviously im sure HSBC can detail what loans ive had and show transactions to prove it but is the absence of a signed agreement totally damning for them?

 

Hiya Mike, I don't think anyone can predict that because it will be up to the particular officer of the FOS on the particular day he decides .

 

pete

[Josie8]

Its unlikely I'm afraid - it seems to be FOS policy to say that unenforceability is for the courts to determine not them:roll: Still its cost them £450 for FOS to look at complaint:D

[mike77]

ok thank you, so if the FOS do say it is not upto them to decide if the account is unenforceable and that would be the courts job, if i then took it to court is it likely the courts would find in my favour?, i know this is all ifs and buts but without a signed agreement there is nothing in black and white saying i committed to it.

[mike77]

Hello again people!, Ive spoken to the FOS again recently to ask if there is any further information on when they can look at my complaint and the answer is still "it will probably be a few months before we look at it"... after hearing that the FOS are unlikely to find in my favour from previous posts I'm beginning to wonder what the whole point of going to them is.

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to just go down the court proceedings route and drop FOS out of the equation.

[johnnymitch]

Difficult to advise on this mike - to borrow from what pete says in #44.... I don't think you can predict which way any particular judge will jump either......

 

You could try brinkmanship and take them down the court road , but if, as they say, they are waiting for FOS to spark - that may not prompt them into settling out of court ........ ?

[mike77]

Hello again everyone. Just sent off a letter to the HSBC asking for them to re-assess their stance. I know that they are waiting for the FOS to decide on the case but just thought id give them one more chance to wipe the slate clean. I also advised that should the FOS reach a decision that is not satisfactory to myself then i will be issuing court proceedings. Just thought id let them know that i'm well aware that it is "they" that have to abide by what the FOS say, and not "me". I know its a long shot but as long as they know i'm prepared to take this all the way then its worth it!, by the way does anybody know of a case where there has not been a signed agreement yet the bank won in court?

[mike77]

Hello again everyone, had a letter from the Financial Ombudsman the other day to say my case has now been assigned to an adjudicator to look at and that if i have any more information that may be helpful i should tell them now. Just rang them and reiterated that not only did i not sign an agreement but i was never even shown one at all. HSBC did not attempt to take any repayments from me and the only contact i had from them about the loan was 16 months later when they advised the account would default in 28 days time. So now i suppose its only a matter of weeks before they come to a decision. I just hope i have a sympathetic adjudicator!