Helllppp - Honours Student Loans

[xray2]

Hi,

Would really appreciate some help. My husband has three student loans from 1994-1996, he has not paid anything on them since 2003 when he was paying arrears only as he had deferments on the account. These arrears were to a company called Intrim Justica. Suddenly this year we have been hit by a company called Honours Student Loans who are saying they bought the loans some years ago. We have never been informed of this before and to date despite requests they have not provided proof. They are also saying that my husband made a one off payment of £40 to them in 2004, we have asked for proof of this and not received it. My husband’s case is going to court next month, we want to ask for the original agreements (a section 77) and did write to Honours Student Loans but as usual this letter was ignored. Should we also request this info from the Student Loan Company? Also, my husband has attempted a statute barred action in his defence to the court – does he have this legal defence?

My husband has never earnt very much and for 6 years I was unable to work due to chronic ill health, we also have children.

Any advice would be gratefully received as time is of the essence. (If need be can we ask for an adjournment to prepare?)

Thanks

PS A truly life saving forum – one point though I find the acronyms a bit difficult maybe an idea to have one page explaining them for dunces like me!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

BUMP

Follow this link to find the glossary of abbreviations

Glossary(abbreviations) - Consumer Wiki

[xray2]

Huge thanks

[xray2]

Hi,

 

I recently posted outlining all the details of my husbands case (pease see) helllppp honours student loans. (sorry it won't let me add as a hyperlink) I had sent a template letter from this site asking for a number of things - copies of credit agreement, deed of assignment with proof of sending etc. We recieved a letter and copies of some of the paperwork asked for can I take it point by point.

 

1. Honours Student Loans have sent us copies of the agreements, two of them unsigned by the SLC. I thought that meant we were on to a winner but HSL have quoted the following "Please note that the debtor's and creditor's signatures may be omitted from such copies as provided for under the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Document) Regulations 1983." Now my husbands signature is on all three loans but the SLC have only signed one. Does the HSL argument stand up as quoted above?

 

2. I asked for copies of notice of assignment and proof it had been sent. They have sent a Composite Assignment and Assignation between Honours Trustee Ltd and SLC Ltd March 1999 which shows that HTL bought 1 million (yes really) pounds worth of loans but it does not stipulate my husbands. We have never had anything from them or heard of this company before this year and a pending court case! We have a letter from the DfEE dated March 1998 which states "I can tell you that none of your loans have been included in this sale." We never heard any thing different to this.

 

3. We attempted to claim statute barred but there were payments made to a company called Intrum Justica the last one being 1st Jan 2003 by standing order. Does this mean we cannot claim this? Also, HSL are claiming we made two payments one on the 7 March 2003 and one on the 24 December 2004. Our bank statements clearly show this to be a complete fabrication.

 

4. We asked for all information held but what they did send was impossible to decipher and they have also stated that "some information that is conncected with the present proceedings and is subject to legal professional priveledge is not included herewith." Can they withhold information like this?

 

Can I also say that we asked for a number of things none were forthcoming with the specified time frame thoguh stupidly we did not send recorded delivery. They have now sent this information through with little time for us to build a proper defence and counter claim. This is heard in court 10th September and we still have no proof or evidence that this company purchased my husbands loans!

 

Basically we are in a mess and would really really appreciate help. Sorry if this sounds a bit of a rant I am very nervous!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi,

Please note all written is my personal opinion, you might consider clicking on the red triangle located below you name, this opens a dialogue box in which you can ask the site team to direct someone with experience to look at the thread, it does work.

 

I recently posted outlining all the details of my husbands case (pease see) helllppp honours student loans. (sorry it won't let me add as a hyperlink) I had sent a template letter from this site asking for a number of things - copies of credit agreement, deed of assignment with proof of sending etc. We recieved a letter and copies of some of the paperwork asked for can I take it point by point.

 

1. Honours Student Loans have sent us copies of the agreements, two of them unsigned by the SLC. I thought that meant we were on to a winner but HSL have quoted the following "Please note that the debtor's and creditor's signatures may be omitted from such copies as provided for under the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Document) Regulations 1983." Now my husbands signature is on all three loans but the SLC have only signed one. Does the HSL argument stand up as quoted above? IMHO yes the regulations allow for signatures to be omitted, although they will need to provide the original in court

 

2. I asked for copies of notice of assignment and proof it had been sent. They have sent a Composite Assignment and Assignation between Honours Trustee Ltd and SLC Ltd March 1999 which shows that HTL bought 1 million (yes really) pounds worth of loans but it does not stipulate my husbands. We have never had anything from them or heard of this company before this year and a pending court case! We have a letter from the DfEE dated March 1998 which states "I can tell you that none of your loans have been included in this sale." We never heard any thing different to this.

You should have received written information from SLC informing you that they sold your debt

 

3. We attempted to claim statute barred but there were payments made to a company called Intrum Justica the last one being 1st Jan 2003 by standing order. Does this mean we cannot claim this? Also, HSL are claiming we made two payments one on the 7 March 2003 and one on the 24 December 2004. Our bank statements clearly show this to be a complete fabrication. If the payment was made by your husband on 01/01/O3 the you will not be able to claim it is statute barred, it is often suggested that DCA create phatom payments I believe many do so.

 

4. We asked for all information held but what they did send was impossible to decipher and they have also stated that "some information that is conncected with the present proceedings and is subject to legal professional priveledge is not included herewith." Can they withhold information like this?

If you sent an SAR they Are meant to comply, you will need to report this matter to the office of the Information Commissioner.

On recept of a county court claim then you can request all information the itend to rely on, via CPR

 

Can I also say that we asked for a number of things none were forthcoming with the specified time frame thoguh stupidly we did not send recorded delivery. They have now sent this information through with little time for us to build a proper defence and counter claim. This is heard in court 10th September and we still have no proof or evidence that this company purchased my husbands loans!

 

Basically we are in a mess and would really really appreciate help. Sorry if this sounds a bit of a rant I am very nervous!

 

Good luck remember to click on the red triangle, leaving a message with the site team if you need assistance, the risk is if you don't defend could get a default judgement.

[xray2]

Thanks for your help. We are attempting to defend but time is against us they have been so late and so much is missing that we requested from them!

Will let you know what happens, thanks again

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi

I think you should contact the site team, especially as you are being denied access to information they intend to rely on, there are many members with expertise who can help you.

If you have not done so already is to click on the red triangle located below you name, this opens a dialogue box in which you can ask the site team to direct someone with experience to look at the thread, it does work.

I've sent a PM to you with this info

Regards

 

Andy

 

Edited August 18, 2008 by old_andrew2007
typo

[xray2]

Thanks Andy, I did do as you said earlier today but I expect everyone is busy. Hopefully, someone can have a look for me tonight and help out. Thank you very much for all your help, I really do appreciate it very much

[caro]

If you haven't done so already I would suggest that you send a CPR part 18 request for information. This link provided advice on how to do it.

PRACTICE DIRECTION – FURTHER INFORMATION - This Practice Direction supplements CPR Part 18

 

The statute barred defence is incorrect as Andy says, but it isn't the end of the world. There is time to sort it. Can you post the Particulars of Claim, and the defence you've submitted so we can see what else is there and can try and advise you further.

[xray2]

Hi Caro,

 

The defence to date was a bit of a mess as we were ad libbing! We intend to submit evidence that shows we have no evidence that this company ever bought the loan (which we don't) we do have a letter from the DfEE stating that my husband's loans were not sold on but that is dated 1998. Can I add attachments here?

 

A. This is the letter sent to the Judge on 4 August ...

 

 

To the Honourable District Judge xxxxxxxx,

 

In the xxxxxxxxxxx County Court

Honours Trustee Limited -v- Mr xxxxxxxxxxxx

Claim Number: 8XE46663

 

 

Please find attached correspondence with the claimant of the 21st May 2008 to which the claimant has failed to respond. As a result of the delay I now find that because of the intervening years which have elapsed coupled with the claimants failure to supply true 'signed' copies of the agreement & statements as requested in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to which the claimant are now in criminal default and their failure to particularise their claim including failure to produce a deed of assignment, I am unable to mount a fair & equitable defence & counter claim. Could I please kindly ask that the case is now dismissed?

 

B Here is a copy of letter sent to HSL on 16th July (there are denying all knowledge of both) ....

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

Firstly please note I acknowledge no debt to your company.

 

I wrote to you on the 21st May, please see copy of letter attached. As I am sure you are aware under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [as amended] you had 12 days + one month on which to act and have failed to do so. I will therefore be suggesting to the Court that you are now in criminal default. Non-compliance of the requested documents has meant that I am unable to mount a fair and equitable defence & counter claim. You have failed to comply with my statutory demand and as a result you should not now be trying to enforce any alleged debt and your subsequent actions may be seen as an abuse of process. Further as you are aware I also believe that any alleged debt would be statute barred.

 

However, should this case proceed to Court and given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Student Loans Company.

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Documentary evidence of the method of payment you allege I used to make a payment to yourselves in 2004.

 

4. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

C We then sent this to there solicitors ...

 

To Whom It May Concern

 

In the xxxxxxxxxxx County Court

Honours Trustee Limited -v- Mr xxxxx

Claim Number: xxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your recent letter dated 22 July 2008 and received by myself 30 July 2008 and stemming from an unnamed source at your company. Might I suggest that for the sake of continuity and clarity it would be a good idea to furnish me with the details of the solicitor in charge of this case?

 

Please find attached copies of letters sent to your client to which no response has been noted. I have therefore today written to District Judge xxxxxxxx for a dismissal of this case.

 

Yours sincerely

 

We recieved a response to C but from HSL and not their solicitor this is dispite the fact they have requested we correspond through their solicitor! I can scan this response can I attach here somehow?

 

BTW there were some deferrals but things went a bit pear shaped for us with the loss of our son. However, it has been a rare event when my husband has earnt enough to actually pay the loan.

 

 

Thanks for any help

 

Sorry people my spelling and grammar is atrocious tonight!

Edited August 18, 2008 by xray2
named person

[caro]

You can attach documents as explained here. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html#post1151870

 

If that is your total defence? If so I think you should see if you can amend it using an N244 application.

[xray2]

Caro I really appreciate your help. Here is the letter sent by HSL on the 15th in answer to our requests.

 

 

 

Just as an addition we do dispute the payment in March that they mention and can show bank statements which show no payment went out to them.

 

Further we do not have a myraid of letters as they state. Further on the SAR (or that they have allowed us to see) it says somebody came to the house Feb 12 2008 was seen by our daughter and that my husband refused to discuss anything. I can say that in Feb 2007 somebody came to the house and spoke with my daughter (who was 13 at the time) and she informed him that my husband was working and living in Ireland (as he was to get employment). This person did not say where he was from but told her her Daddy owed money! We heard no more after this.

 

In regard to the N244 am I asking for judgement to be set aside, to change/add to defence or something else? Sorry to be so ignorant Also it must be submitted 14 days before and we are running short of time so really need to get it done.

 

Really sorry to be a complete pain

Edited August 19, 2008 by xray2

[xray2]

Hi,

 

Here is their claim (BTW this is going to small claims does that make a difference?) They seem to be relying on the fact that we made a payment which we know we didn't hence why we asked for proof.

 

 

 

Our defence was pretty rubbish given what we now know! but it is here for those who want a laugh! We did send the other letters (seen in earlier posts) afterwards. Neither of us are familiar with any of this and cannot afford legal representation (I have been unwell for some time and currently unable to work).

 

 

The above was provided for a statement of case. It was then allocated to the small claims track. Does this constitute our defence ie it cannot be added to or amended without a N244 application?

 

Another BTW but is it relevant that they only sent us a First Notice of Sums in Arrears form on the 21st July 2008 which is some weeks after court action was taken?

Also they have sent us copies of three loans, one is signed by both parties, two are signed by my husband only?

 

Thanks again & really sorry to be a burden xx

Edited August 19, 2008 by xray2

[steven4064]

Can you post Honours' particulars of claim

[xray2]

Hi,

 

I am so glad you asked for these because I think I have found a large mistake in their particulars of claim. They are claiming for loans dated between 20/01/1995 and 20/01/1995 and the loan agreements they sent us show my husband signed for them on the 24/1/1995, the 27/11/1995 and the 2/10/1996 all of these are surely out of date with the claim dates above??

 

BTW the loan agreements they supplied are unsigned by the SLC with the exception of one of them and the backs are unreadable due to badly scanned copies but they do clearly show the dates.

 

 

 

We have been really silly in this endeavour but have so much stress outside of this (lost our son last year to a heart condition and currently have daughter on the waiting list for major heart surgery) and this has really affected otherwise sensible adults!!

 

Give they are claiming for loans that did not even exist on their claim what do we do now?

 

Thank you so much for the help

[steven4064]

BAsically, your defence should now be that you didn't have aloan in the period they are claiming and put them to strict proof that you did.

[xray2]

So do we need to fill in a N244 to do this? Or do we submit a letter to court? Or do we just turn up on the day and ask for strict proof submitting to the Court the loan agreements sent to us by HSL as evidence?

 

Thanks

[steven4064]

Caro seems to think you should amend your defence anyway. You could add this to your revised defence. The N244 will cost you £75 BTW, if that makes a difference.

[xray2]

Thanks £75 is better than the £3,500 plus £2000 costs they want to claim if they win. Thanks again

[steven4064]

Caro and I have deen informed that the Limitations Act does apply to Student Loans - so, if you have not paid anything or otherwise acknoweldged the debt in the last 6 years they can take a hike.

 

However, I am worried by item 3 in post #4 - were IJ acting on behalf of SLC? Was that payment actually made or is it a fabrication?

 

Limitations in itself would be defense enough. The dates confusion would be icing on the cake.

 

If the payment in Jan 03 was real and for this loan, then limitations doesn't apply but the dates confusion should give grounds for a defence. Also they must produce an original of the agreement in court under CPR Practice Direction 16 para 7.3

 

In post 10, you said the defence is a bit of a mess. Is 'A' in post #10 it? If not, could you post it.

 

You might like to look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/students/65254-student-loans-company.html too

[caro]

Is it possible you may have made some cash payments or some other method that wouldn't have gone through your bank?

[xray2]

Hi,

 

We have 3 letters from IJ all stating the Creditor as SLC, however HSL are trying to say the following they purchased the loans but the SLC continued to administer them until 2004 see below:

 

 

 

So if they are claiming that SLC acted on their behalf then IJ were acting for them only we did not know that, that doesn't sound very fair!

 

A in post #10 is a letter I sent to the Judge recently, we were informed that to consider dismissal a N244 needed to be filed. However, on the same day that letter arrived a letter from HSL arrived with 'some' of the requested documentation.

 

The defence submitted was basically that we had never heard of this company until recently and that they had failed to prove they bought the loans followed by second part of post #13.

 

I find it a little scary that a company can claim you owe them money with no proof they have purchased your loan. Surely the Courts do not expect people just to pay up without evidence and if we are expected to provide proof of postage then surely the claimant does too therefore our request for c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold is more than reasonable? They have failed to do this but have sent a letter that shows they bought £1m of loans from the SLC but that does not prove ours were included.

 

 

Thanks again

[xray2]

Definately not cash payments my husband did have a credit card for a while but we think not at that time period but cannot be sure. I have asked them to tell us what method etc surely if they do know then they are just obstructing and ensuring this goes to Court?

 

Thanks for everything soooo appreciated

[xray2]

Caro I have sent Steve something and am hoping you two can share

 

Thanks I am so very grateful and hoping I will actually get a full nights sleep soon and it will be all thanks to you two

[xray2]

Hi

We have a court case tomorrow the Notice of Allocation states "Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any experts' report) on which he intends to rely no later than 14 days before the hearing."

About 10 minutes ago my postman turned up with an A4 file of paperwork the claimants solicitor says they have filed in court in readiness of the forthcoming hearing. There letter is dated the 5th and the postmark is 8th we have recieved evidence the day before, surely they cannot be allowed to depend on this?

 

Interestingly I have had a quick read and all their evidence is this is an example letter of ... but none of it directly relates to our account ie no account numberrs on letters etc.

The loan agreements they have are NOT signed by both parties does this matter? Further there is no notice of assignment that shows they purchased my loans at any time all they have is an example letter, no account numbers or details.

 

Do you think they have just submitted this very late evidence to scare us away tomorrow?

 

Thanks