Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • The case against the US-based ride-hailing giant is being brought on behalf of over 10,800 drivers.View the full article
    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

private ticket on council owned land


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5609 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

I have a friend who works for a company located in a business park owned by the local authority. The car park for this facility operates on a displayed permit basis. Recently the local authority passed the operation of the permit scheme to a private company. My friend was issued a new permit for parking under the new scheme but forgot to display it one day and got a fine ("details of contraventions against of parking regulations") stuck to their car.

 

I'm looking for some advice on a couple points here:

 

1) as the car park is owned by the local authority, is this covered under the road traffic act? The ticket bears the private company's name not the council's.

 

2) Is it reasonable to demand payment considering that ordinarily there is no parking fee to pay? The employer pays rent at the site so its not like any financial loss has resulted.

 

3) Is it reasonable to demand an amount in excess (nearly double) of what the local authority normally demand for parking offences on the public highway.

 

4) probably a minor point but the small bag containing the notice which was stuck to the car claimed it was an offence for it to be removed by anyone other than the driver. Is that legal if this is not a road traffic offence and in fact a civil (contract) matter?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, thanks for replying.

 

I don't have the facility to scan the parking notice, sorry. I've checked it to make sure its the proper format and it appears to be correct.

 

I thought I had pretty much explained the basis it was issued under but if there's anything specific you need to know then please let me know. One thing I will say though, I won't provide any specific details which I think will identify my friend.

 

I don't wish to appear paranoid but its not hard to imagine parking companies joining this forum.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I had pretty much explained the basis it was issued under but if there's anything specific you need to know then please let me know. One thing I will say though, I won't provide any specific details which I think will identify my friend.

 

The main question is "Is this a private ticket (ie invoice) or are the private company acting as agents for the Council and it is therefore a de facto council ticket?"

 

On the ticket, does it say that it is issued on behalf of the council?

 

Is there any legislation quoted in or near the header?

 

What is the actual ticket header (eg Parking Charge Notice, Excess Charge Notice, Penalty Charge notice,)?

Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I remember there is no mention of the council on the ticket. Nor does it say issued on behalf of the council.

 

I will check the ticket this evening to make sure and post back with definite details.

 

Thanks for being more specific. Sorry if I seem a little paranoid!

Link to post
Share on other sites

NCP do do outsourced council ticketing.

but there are issues with that is some locations.

Is this NCP Services ltd ?

What is the authority ?

 

both question would be answered by pictures of course.

if you don't have a scanner do you have a digital camera - or a mobile phone with a digital camera built-in ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

No its not NCP.

 

Guys I appreciate your help on this. I'll try to get a pic on here tonight so you can see the exact wording.

 

From memory I'm pretty certain it said "Parking Charge Notice" and didn't refer to any legislation. I will post definite details this evening.

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi,

 

struggling to get a decent pic of the ticket as its quite small and my phone camera is rubbish.

 

In the meantime I'll type some in:

 

In red at the top

 

"Unauthroised persons must not remove or interfere with this ticket. Please read the notes on the rear of this parking ticket""

 

"Details of contravention against parking restrictions"

 

Location of vehicle

Date parking ticket issued

Time parking ticket issued

Date vehicle was seen in contravention

Time vehicle was seen in contravention

reason why ticket was issued

vehicle registration

make

model & colour

 

Signed & dated by the parking employee.

 

The charge payable is £100

 

If this parking charge notice is paid within fourteen days the fee will be reduced to £70

 

After fourteen days the full amount is due and payable

 

Details overleaf will tell you how to make payment

 

On the back:

 

VAT number

In red: "Please keep part 1 for your reference"

 

PAyment of parking charge notice

If this charge notice is paid within fourteen days the fee will be reduced to the amount shown overleaf. After fourteen days the full amount is due and payable.

 

Non payment of parking charge notice

 

If payment is not recieved within fourteen days of the date this parking ticket was issued the fee will be passed to our recovery department who will apply to the DVLA for the registered keeper details. As a resultof this administration fees will be incurred. If payment is still not received then the debt will be pursued through the courts and additional administration fees and court costs will be incurred.

 

Then there's some more stuff, pretty much repeating what they have already said and giving payment details.

 

In answer to earlier questions, there is no mention of the local authority's name. Only the company WJ Parking of Exeter. There is also no mention of any legal statute.

 

Hope that helps, let me know if you need any more.

 

PS is there any way of forcing them to provide evidence that the parking permit was not displayed?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't bother even asking them to provide evidence.

 

It is a private ticket - it is unenforceable

 

The give-away is the provision of a VAT number. Council PCNs are exempt VAT

 

Read these two threads:

Private Parking Companies/Charges - Advice Paper (everything you need to know)

 

Private Parking Tickets - Template Letters

 

You will get a lot of bluff, bluster, threats and down right lies form them. Either use the template letters or simply ignore them

 

Do not pay.

Link to post
Share on other sites

fraudulent.....really? could you explain why? I find it quite interesting so would be good to hear why.

 

I will try to get a pic of the parking notice on here. I'll borrow a digital camera off a mate and get a pic of it.

 

One thing I should add.....apparently the council have CCTV in the car park so they might well have proof my friend was the driver. But from the sound of what you guys are saying its not going to be necessary to rely on that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

hi,

 

don't know if anyone is still watching this thread but its time for an update.

 

I have been written to by the parking company demanding £130. Being a bit busy with work and stuff I let the side down a bit and forgot to reply. I have since been contacted by a debt collection agency demanding I pay the £130 or they will take me to county court and my credit rating could be adversely affected.

 

So, I decided to get my act together and I used two letters from the template letters thread. One to the parking company to say take it up with the driver and one to the debt agenct to say I've written to the principal to dispute the alleged debt, please take it up with them.

 

It will be interesting to see what they have to say.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good move

 

Now all you have to do is wait, the toothless wonders that are the debt collection agency will threaten all sorts in their letters and will use scare tactics such as 'adverse effect on your credit rating, removal of goods to satisfy the debt, etc etc'. In reality they can DO NOTHING of the sort until you have gone to Court (unlikely) and lost (even more unlikely).

 

Sit back and wait, eventually the PPC will realise you are not going to be scared into paying something that you don't have to and they will move on to someone else. If you get any doubts post back here for re-assurance or to tell us they have given up

 

Mossy

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi all,

 

as yet I have had no follow up letters from either the parking company or the debt collection company.

 

I do have some news though. A friend has told me that they have heard that the parking company WP Parking have gone bankrupt. This is third hand news so I don't know how reliable it is but i'm told the it originated from a source at the council.

 

If true this is good news I guess, although you guys had made me pretty confident this would eventually go away so its just a bonus really.

 

Cheers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

More will go the same way - as money tightens people will not just sit back and pay these [problem] invoices. A large number will look on the web and find this forum (and the other one). Councils will get snarled up with appeals as well but they have a duty to provide enough back office staff to deal with appeals :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

From Lamma's posting - from another WJ thread:

 

In the Exeter County Court No 3009 of 2008 W J PARKING LIMITED (Company Number 04427096) Nature of Business: Car park management services. Registered Office of Company: c/o Bishop Fleming, Stratus House, Emperor Way, Exeter, Devon, EX1 3QS. Date of Appointment: 22 August 2008. Joint Administrators’ Names and Address: Jeremiah Anthony O'Sullivan and Samuel Jonathan Talby (IP Nos 8333 and 9404), both of Bishop Fleming, 2nd Floor Stratus House, Emperor Way, Exeter Business Park, Exeter, Devon, EX1 3QS. just search the gazette for the company number. nice to have the addresses of the directors of the PPC as well in case you wish to write directly

 

The website still works though - what's the chances of a phoenix rising from the ashes?

Edited by Barnsley Boy
trouble with links
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

as they are in Administration (see Companies House entry Company No. 04427096) their paperwork should now be different to abide by Co House rules. Any chance of a picture of this latest piece of junk - suitably washed of personal details

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...