Being taken to Court by HFO Services -Please help Advice needed **WON**

[Rosie_123]

Hi rosie when does your defence need to be in by .

You could file on line if the defence is not too many lines(I sent mine that way).

Don,t forget there is a fee for the N244 £75.( my cheque cleared on Friday).

 

All the best

Broken arrow

PS hope you have a good day at Wimbledon SW19 recognise the postcode!

 

Hi - by July 3rd. So I was advised to send it on Friday next week (27th June) to give it time to reach them in the mail. I would much rather do the defence online, but the one that was posted here seemed so long - I doubt it would all fit in. Despite having a degree (in English), I am totally perplexed and bamboozled by all the legal jargon and wording - I just want to say - "these people have not proved I owe them any money, so make them prove it and then accept my PayPlan payments like all the other creditors have" - very simple and to the point - LOL! But it doesn't seem to work like that.

 

If you don't mind me asking - how long was your defence?

 

And - yes - SW19 Part of me wants to go round and see the famous HFO offices - but I might end up doing something I might regret!!

[broken arrow]

In the particulars of claim the claimant refers to a letter of assignment has been provided to the defendant previously no such document has been provided to the Defendant. The Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

 

No Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant.

 

I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

 

Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and do not know what case I have to meet.

 

In an attempt to ascertain what grounds the claimant is bringing this action and to allow me to prepare my defence I requested on 20/05/2008 the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to this case from the claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of any Credit Agreement and any default or termination notices, a transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, alleged repayments by myself and payments made by the original creditor. Also any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on, including any default notices or termination notice, and a copy of the Notice of Assignment required to give the claimant a legitimate right of action.

 

To Date the claimant has ignored my request under the CPR and I have not received any such documentation requested. As a result it has proven difficult to compose this defence without disclosure of the information requested.

 

In view of the matters pleaded above, I respectfully request that the court gives consideration to whether the claimant’s statement of case should be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply with CPR Part 16.

 

Alternatively if the court decides not to strike out the claimants case, it is requested that the court orders full disclosure of the requested documents pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Having instigated these proceedings without any legal basis for doing so, having failed to provide sufficient information required under the pre-trial protocols in order to investigate this claim, or indeed to provide a reasonable time period to investigate this matter, and having failed to investigate a dispute as required by the OFT Debt collection Guidelines I believe the Claimant’s conduct amounts to unlawful harassment under section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act1970. Furthermore, the Claimant’s behaviour is entirely vexatious and wholly unreasonable.

 

I respectfully ask the permission of the court to amend this defence when the claimant provides the above documents.

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I xxxxxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual

XXXXXXXXXXXX

You could try and see if yours fits in the space provided?

[I've got no money]

How you draft the defence in many ways is up to you. When I defended my claim it was basically in the terms of the one that I posted earlier

 

You don't need to plead greta chunks of law, technically you're not supposed to (but LIP's get away with it). I didn't, cos I forgot, put in a paragraph about a failure to comply with cpr 18 and the failure to comply with a CCA letter so they need to go in but apart from that the defence I used would be fine.

 

I would send off the Application at the same time as the defence.

 

The Court fee - look at the court service website - the financial limits for fees exemption/remission have changed - you might qualify - have a look at form ex 160

 

If you want to pm me your email address I'll email you the N244 in pdf form

 

1. The Particulars of claim are not in numbered paragraphs. I have therefore numbered the points of this defence in an order which appears to be logical.

2. The Claim form identifies the claimant as HFO Services Limited. In the Particulars of Claim the Claimant is identified as HFO Capital Limited. HFO Services Limited and HFO Capital Limited are two separate legal entities.

3. The Particulars of claim do not disclose any cause of action between me and the Claimant HFO Services Limited.

4. I admit that I entered into an agreement with Barclaycard. That Agreement was regulated under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act (The Act). I make no admissions as to whether that agreement is enforceable within the terms of The Act. I put the claimant to strict proof that the said agreement is enforceable both as of the date of its’ inception and at all times thereafter.

5. I do not admit that a Lawful Assignment of the aforesaid agreement has taken place. I put the claimant to strict proof as to such an assignment.

6. I do not admit that I have been provided with a letter of assignment. I put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

7. If, which is not admitted, the agreement is enforceable and a lawful assignment has taken place, I do not admit that I am indebted to the claimant in the sums claimed. I put the claimant to strict proof of all sums claimed.

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

I Believe that the facts stated in this Defence are True

[Rosie_123]

OK thanks - Have PMd you my email.

 

Btw - do I have to do the N244 or is it an extra non-obligatory thing? Only I honestly don't have £75.00 at the moment. My wages only just cover my monthly payment to PayPlan, my mortgage and train fares to work

[I've got no money]

Rosie,

 

I have replied to the email. In answer to the question you need an N244 - you may be able to get the £75 either waived or reduced - the information is on the court service website. You need to look at the form ex 160 - it tells you what the financial limits are and how to apply. You send the completed ex 160 with your N244

[Rosie_123]

Rosie,

 

I have replied to the email. In answer to the question you need an N244 - you may be able to get the £75 either waived or reduced - the information is on the court service website. You need to look at the form ex 160 - it tells you what the financial limits are and how to apply. You send the completed ex 160 with your N244

 

OK thanks. I'm at work now - will have to check it all out when I get home tonight and have more time.

[Rosie_123]

Hi. OK - so I have another ridiculously silly question. I now have the N244 printed and ready to send. I was going to post it on Friday with my Defence and all copies of documents etc. However - what happens if I do decide to send in my Defence online instead, which I admit I am more comfortable with than posting, because you can see immediately that they have received it etc. Do I have to send the N244 in separately with a printed copy of my defence, and copies of all the relevant letters etc? Or will that confuse them? Please help. Thanks.

 

Sorry to be stupid.

 

Also - when I go onto the Court website to try and download the Form 160 (about Court Fees), it says the file is "damaged" and I cannot download it, so I have no idea if I can get the fee waived or not. Has anyone got a copy they can put on here so i can read it, or download it from here? Thanks.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Rosie_123

[broken arrow]

Hi Rosie

 

I would defend online ( if it fits in ).

Then send N244 by post, no need to send copy of your defence if you have ticked box 10 statement of case.

Any other documents you are Sending put copies of those in ( I sent copy of my CPR18 request).

I think you need to send 3 copies of the N244 .

Do not know about the fees maybe I,ve got no money can advise.

 

hope this helps a little

 

All the best

 

Broken arrow

[I've got no money]

Broken Arrow is right - you need to send

N244 together with copies of the letters x 3 - what I do is three sets all stapled separately. That is so the court has one copy, it seals and serves one copy on the other side (with the date of the hearing) and it seals and returns, with the date of the hearing, one copy to you. If you are going to apply for remission of the fee, you need to put in a form of application for remission if not you need to enclose a cheque for £75.

 

Keep us informed

[Rosie_123]

Again - thanks to all. I do have one question for any of you though.

 

Earlier on today I phoned the Court to ask them how I could get hold of a copy of the Court Fees information, as I can't open the document on their website. The girl asked me why I needed it so urgently- and when I explained it was because my Defence was due in, she said there was no need to send any money with the Defence - and that fees were only payable if I lsoe the case or wanted judgment "set aside".

 

I explained to her that I was also sending a N244 (don't worry- I didn't give her my name or case Number so she doesn't know who I am!),- and she asked me why I was sending one, as that only needed to be sent if I lose the case She said cases/hearings are automatically transferred to my nearest court without having to ask so why was I sending an N244?

 

Anyway- whe nI read through the N244 form, it seems that it is moslty a repeat of all the evidence/information I will put in my Defence - there is nothing extra or different there - so my questions are.............

 

a) What is the difference between the N244 and the Defence?

b) Why do I need to send both if the Court tells me all I need to do is send in a Defence?

c) I don't want to do anything wrong, but is there any need to spend £75.00 on this N2444?

 

Thanks for reading this?

[broken arrow]

Hi Rosie

 

I think it all comes down to what your using the N244 order for.

If it is the same as your defence I agree it would be a waste of money at the moment.

My reason for sending N244 was to get Turnbulls to comply with my CPR18 request, which is now 37 days and counting and no info.

 

All the best

 

Broken arrow

[Rosie_123]

Hi Rosie

 

I think it all comes down to what your using the N244 order for.

If it is the same as your defence I agree it would be a waste of money at the moment.

My reason for sending N244 was to get Turnbulls to comply with my CPR18 request, which is now 37 days and counting and no info.

 

All the best

 

Broken arrow

 

Well they haven't replied to mine either. But in the Defence that you posted (which I have adapted for my own case as they are very similar), there is actually a clause that says they have not complied, and that I/we want them to, because a proper Defence cannot be submitted without all the information asked for in the CPR. So surely if that is in my Defence, then the Court would not judge against me without me being in possession of all the facts to defend myself properly, and would surely ask them to provide it? This is what is confusing me.

[broken arrow]

Hi Rosie

 

Maybe wait with the N244 request and see what comes of mine.( IGNM might disagree)

 

Have you filed your defence yet.

 

All the best

Broken arrow

[Rosie_123]

Hi Rosie

 

Maybe wait with the N244 request and see what comes of mine.( IGNM might disagree)

 

Have you filed your defence yet.

 

All the best

Broken arrow

No - I'm going to do it on Friday, as that will officially be 7 days after I sent my follow-up letter to Turnbulls giving them 7 days to reply. I have the afternoon off work then too, as I've just found out I have an interview for a permanent job then (please keep your fingers crossed for me) - so I will do it from home on Friday afternoon when I have more time.I have typed it up though, and have it saved on my computer.

[I've got no money]

The court staff shouldn't be giving legal advice - they're expressly not allowed to.

 

The purpose of the N244 is to bring your case to a speedy conclusion. The reality is that the Court, i.e. a Judge won't read the defence until the allocation stage - and even then they won't read it very carefully - it is true that part of the application - that is the bit about there being no cause of action could theoretically wait until trial.

 

The problem is that you need the cpr part 18 information before trial. If you don't make the application on the N244 you run the risk of getting to trial and not have enough information to mount a proper defence or of them suddenly springing something on you. Although the defence mentions the failure to comply with the rule 18 request strictly speaking it is NOT part of the defence to the claim. It's only in it to try and get some sympathy.

 

On my experience of this particular outfit you need to make the application now.

[Rosie_123]

The court staff shouldn't be giving legal advice - they're expressly not allowed to.

 

The purpose of the N244 is to bring your case to a speedy conclusion. The reality is that the Court, i.e. a Judge won't read the defence until the allocation stage - and even then they won't read it very carefully - it is true that part of the application - that is the bit about there being no cause of action could theoretically wait until trial.

 

The problem is that you need the cpr part 18 information before trial. If you don't make the application on the N244 you run the risk of getting to trial and not have enough information to mount a proper defence or of them suddenly springing something on you. Although the defence mentions the failure to comply with the rule 18 request strictly speaking it is NOT part of the defence to the claim. It's only in it to try and get some sympathy.

 

On my experience of this particular outfit you need to make the application now.

 

 

OK - yes - I understand. Thanks. Sorry I didn't get here earlier to reply, but there seems to have been a problem with this site and I could not access it or post until now. Problem is - I totally have not got £75.00 - my mortgage is due next week and I can only just cover that - nothing more That's why I was trying to get a copy of the exemption/fees thing to see if I was exempt, but I just can't open the file on the website, which is why I rang the Court in the first place.

 

Is there anyway I can file my defence to get it out of the way - and then send an N244 in a couple of weeks? Or does it not work like that? Do they have to be done at the same time? Sorry for all the questions.

[pinkfairy]

Hi Rosie, I'm in almost exactly the same situation as you with Bryan Carter over piddly £65 - you are asking all the same questions I am so I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread!

If I have anything that can help you as much I will definitely let you know! I was also confused about the n244, I coulnd't believe that we have to pay £75 to send a form simply because they won't reply to our CPR but believe me you will feel SO much better once you've had a look at the form itself. I work full time and I too would struggle to pay it.

[I've got no money]

Yes - I've had a few problems with the site - I've not been getting emails - and its' kicked me out a few times.

 

The most important thing is get the defence in - what you could do then - is do another chasing letter to our heroes - giving them a further week to reply - its' all about you appearing to the court to being reasonable - then if they don't reply within a couple of weeks then issue the N244 - basically you just write to them saying that you refer to your unanswered letters of (date) and (date) and note with grave concern that they have not had the courtesy to reply. Tell them that their failure to reply has resulted in your incurring costs. That you are prepared to give them one last opportunity to respond by 4pm on (date) in default you will submit an N244 and will seek costs.

[Rosie_123]

Yes - I've had a few problems with the site - I've not been getting emails - and its' kicked me out a few times.

 

The most important thing is get the defence in - what you could do then - is do another chasing letter to our heroes - giving them a further week to reply - its' all about you appearing to the court to being reasonable - then if they don't reply within a couple of weeks then issue the N244 - basically you just write to them saying that you refer to your unanswered letters of (date) and (date) and note with grave concern that they have not had the courtesy to reply. Tell them that their failure to reply has resulted in your incurring costs. That you are prepared to give them one last opportunity to respond by 4pm on (date) in default you will submit an N244 and will seek costs.

 

OK - thanks so much. I was just worried that if I got my Defence in as soon as possible, it would go against me for not sending in the N244 at the same time. I should have the £75.00 in a few weeks - just not with my mortgage due. So should I put on my Defence that I am sending one in at a later date, or not?

 

Also - one last question (my lunchtime is ending!) - I have finally been able to open the Court Fees thing online, and I think I probably am exempt from paying fees from looking at the figures there - but when I tried to download the C160 so that I could print it off and fill it in, I got the error message again that the file is "damaged" and cannot be accessed. Do you - or does anyone else - have a copy of it that you can put here (like you did with the N244 befiore) so I can have a copy?

 

Really - thanks for all your help.

[I've got no money]

There are three ways of getting court fees either waived in full or in part.

 

Qualifying Benefits - If you get IS or Income Based JSA or Pension Credit or Working Tax Credit (BUT NOT Child tax credit) you get all the fees waived.

 

The Gross income rules for remission - if your Total Gross Income (there are things which don't count as income) does NOT exceed;-

1. Single person NO Dependants - £12000

2. Single Person ONE Child - £14735

3. Single Person TWO Children - £17470

4. Single Person THREE Children - £20205

5. Single Person FOUR Children - £22940

Each Additional child - £2735

 

The rates for a couple are £4000 extra

 

Then you get the fees waived in full.

 

The Third way is Part Remission based on a means test - basically they take your current income deduct certain allowable expenses and come up with a figure at the end which determines whether/how much fees you have to pay

[I've got no money]

Don't put the fact that you are going to submit an N244 on the defence - I'll see what I can do about sorting out an ex160

 

I'll email you one - the only thing to remember about the one that I'm going to email is that the allowances shown on it have been increased as of the 1st May 2008 to the ones' that I've listed above.

 

If you need to apply using the third option the correct figures are...

 

Partner £150 per month

Dependant Child £228 per month

General Living Costs £296 per month - this figure must not be used if you have no monthly housing cost.

[Rosie_123]

Thanks for that. I am not on benefits, but my temporary salary is less than £12,000 With my partner, it would be more than the prescribed amount - but as this debt is mine alone and not in his name (he is not even aware of the case as yet!) - do I have to include him? I guess the answer is yes - but - no worries - I could probably still apply for the Means Tested thing. Thanks again.

[I've got no money]

Unfortunately they do consider your partners income...

[patrickq1]

for pink fairy just type into the search address at the top for bryan carter and you will find a wealth of information against them also the cpr18 is in their for you to copy and use

patrickq1

dont worry rosie you have done as much as you can HFO will not turn up on the day they are using threats and trying to get as far as they can,and if i remember this debt was part of the payplan issue i beleive (the big one over 5 grand) then make sure this is mentioned in the cpr ok

patrickq1

[Rosie_123]

OK guys - I am at the the end of my tetherwith this

 

Remember I sent the CPR letter off, and then a reminder - well - this morning I received a letter from Turnbull Rutherfords refusing to comply because they do not deal with "speculative and informal requests" made during the course of litigation. I have scanned the letter here,- but in case it does not come up clearly, here is the main paragraph:-

 

"As you will be aware, Part 18 gives the court the power to order a party to a dispute to provide further information to another party. A copy of Part 18 is attached to this letter for your reference. Your letter did not contain a copy of any such court order and we have not received notice of any such order made by the court in this case. Our instructions are to refrain from responding to speculative and informal requests for information made during litigation. If you wish to make an application for an order under Part 18, you or your solicitors will need to make the application directly to the court. A fee of £40.00 will be payable to court with the application but you may be entitled to a reduction in the fees that you have to pay, dependant upon your circumstances. A copy of the leaflet issued by her Majesty's Court Service on court fees is enclosed for your information."

 

OK - so please what do I do now? Has anyone else had a letter like this after sending a CPR request.The b******* have never even complied with my CCA letter from November last year! My original CPR letter asked for all this information in order to perpare my defence. Without it, I cannot prepare a proper defence. The defence that I filed online yesterday says I have not received all the information and asks the Court to make an order to get them to do so. I am going to send an N244 on Monday with a form asking for exemption as IGNM suggested.

 

The letter that they have sent was obviously done very hurriedly. It says "Thank you for your letter of (Date).............) but no one has put in a date! It also says it includes a copy of the Court Fees thing - but it did not include it. All I got was this letter and the Part 18 thing. Please can someone help? I feel like I am being victimised because I am an "older woman" and they think they can scare and intimiate me. They are succeeding. What makes it worse is the temp job I am doing comes to an end in 2 weeks and I didnt get the permanent job I applied for last week So I am so desparate and confused. I hate all this.

 

Edit: Oh - and the letter was posted before I filed my defence online.

 

Thanks as always.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Rosie_123