ID problem

[MontyTheDog]

I am currently unemployed and want to work. Some time ago I lost all my ID in a house fire. Being on benefits I cannot afford to replace them. My bank account was closed as I could not afford to repay my overdraft out of my benefit.

 

The only ID I have left is an old student card and letters from the Jobcentre. Unfortunately, neither is acceptable to employers to whom I have applied for work.

 

I have asked the Jobcentre for help but they say there is nothing they can do.

 

Can anyone advise me what I can do?

[nufsaid]

A copy of your birth certificate is available from your council registry office for £7 this is for the long version and is accepted for most application processes (the short version is not always accepted). Also you should get hold of your national insurance number your job center could help with this you are only allowed one copy of your card mind keep it safe.

It may seem allot but you will only need to get your birth certificate once.

Hope this helps.

NS

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I am currently unemployed and want to work. Some time ago I lost all my ID in a house fire. Being on benefits I cannot afford to replace them. My bank account was closed as I could not afford to repay my overdraft out of my benefit.

 

The only ID I have left is an old student card and letters from the Jobcentre. Unfortunately, neither is acceptable to employers to whom I have applied for work.

 

I have asked the Jobcentre for help but they say there is nothing they can do.

 

Can anyone advise me what I can do?

 

As the fire was some time ago then no doubt you now have some recent utility bills in your name? Do you have your benefit paid into a PO account? (Therefore, receiving statements)

 

Is this not proof enough for prospective employers?

 

As nuffsaid has posted a copy of your birth certificate is also easy to obtain.

[Sidewinder]

As the fire was some time ago then no doubt you now have some recent utility bills in your name? Do you have your benefit paid into a PO account? (Therefore, receiving statements)

 

Is this not proof enough for prospective employers?

 

Unfortunately for the OP, No, Weird Al.

 

The Asylum and Immigration Act 1996, superceded most recently by the Immigration (Restrictions on Employment) Order 2007 requires employers to verify the eligibility of individuals to work in the UK. Only documents prescribed by the Secretary of State are acceptable, the Order being specifically:-

 

Documents which constitute legal proof of eligibility to work in the UK.

 

LIST 1

Any one of these documents will provide proof that the (potential) employee is eligible to work in the UK. Once you have checked any one of these documents from your (potential) employee, you do not need to ask for further documents contained in list 2.

• A passport showing that the holder is a British Citizen, or has a right of abode in the United Kingdom.
  
• A document showing that the holder is a national from a European Economic Area (EEA) country or Switzerland. This must be a national passport or national identity card.
  
• A residence permit issued by the Home Office to a national from a EEA country or Switzerland.
  
• A passport or other document issued by the Home Office which has an endorsement stating that the holder has a current right of residence in the United Kingdom as the family member of a national from a EEA country or Switzerland who is resident in the UK.
  
• A passport or other travel document endorsed to show that the holder can stay indefinitely in the UK or has no time limit on their stay.
  
• A passport or other travel document endorsed to show that the holder can stay in the UK; and that this endorsement allows the holder to do the type of work you are offering if they do not have a work permit.
  
• An application Registration Card issued by the Home Office to an asylum seeker stating that the holder is permitted to take employment.

OR

 

The (potential) employee must provide one of the documents listed in A and one of the documents listed in section B-H.

 

A. A document giving the person's permanent National Insurance Number and name or a P45, P60, National Insurance card or a letter from a Government Agency

And either

B. A full birth certificate issued in the UK, which includes the names of the holder's parents; or

C. A birth certificate issued in the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man or Ireland; or

D. A certificate of registration or naturalisation stating that the holder is a British Citizen; or

E. A letter issued by the Home Office to the holder which indicates that the person named in it can stay indefinitely in the UK, or has not time limit on their stay; or

F. An immigration Status Document issued by the Home Office to the holder with an endorsement indicating that the person named in it can stay indefinitely in the UK, or has not time limit on their stay; or

G. A letter issued by the Home Office to the holder which indicates that the person named in it can stay in the UK, and this allows them to do the type of work you are offering; or

H. An immigration Status Document issued by the Home Office to the holder with an endorsement indicating that the person named in it can stay in the UK, and this allows them to do the type of work you are offering.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Oh, is the OP a migrant worker then?

 

Only it appears the OP has a problem with ID but doesn't mention an eligibility problem.

[paulgmb]

The op wouldn't need to be. All potential employees have to provide as sidewinder has listed above probably to avoid any allegations of discrimination I imagine.The best bet might be to try and get a new NI card.Regards,Paul

[Sidewinder]

Thanks Paul - Some people seem to think that it is possible to know at a glance whether every employee is legally entitled to work in the UK - in the event that you get it wrong and end up on the wrong side of the law the ONLY defence available is to have verified this prior to appointment and the only documents acceptable to the Home Office are those stated above. Employers therefore must check these documents for EVERY employee appointed.

 

Oh, is the OP a migrant worker then?

 

Only it appears the OP has a problem with ID but doesn't mention an eligibility problem.

 

Sarcasm doesn't become you - especially when you don't know what you are talking about.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

The op wouldn't need to be. All potential employees have to provide as sidewinder has listed above probably to avoid any allegations of discrimination I imagine.The best bet might be to try and get a new NI card.Regards,Paul

 

Not quite true.

 

You are deciding the recruitment policies of all businesses in the UK with your statement.

 

Although it may be prudent for a business to do the above to avoid an allegation of discrimination your assertion that 'all potential employees have to provide...(from the list)'...is simply not the case.

 

The employer has to use their own judgment when recruiting staff to avoid employing illegal migrants.

 

This is very different from what documentation a UK national has to produce by law to a UK employer to enable one to work.

 

You have seemed to have overlooked the following from List 1 from sidewinder's post:

 

1 Not all UK citizens have a passport and, actually, are not compelled to do so.

 

Are you suggesting that UK non-passport holders are unable to work in the UK as they have no passport?

 

2 Identity cards are not issued or compulsory to UK citizens in the UK.

 

3 UK nationals do not need a Residency Permit to reside in the UK.

 

4 Registration Cards are not needed by UK nationals as they are issued to asylum seekers.

 

As you can see, the regulation is for non-UK workers to prove their eligibility to work in the UK although a company may insist it applies to all applicants including UK citizens, however, this is not a compulsory requirement.

 

Indeed, as I am a job hunter, almost every application form asks for your personal details including address, date of birth, nationality, work history, education history etc etc and now, I have noticed, the question 'Are you eligible to work in the UK?'

 

On top of this is usually an Equal Opportunities form.

 

Any competent HR manager would be able to come to the conclusion the applicant is a UK citizen from the answers given.

 

If they decide that is so then there is no requirement in law for me to produce a passport to work in the UK.

 

Btw, do you not realise that your statement is effectively introducing ID cards in the UK?

 

Therefore, back to the original post, the OP seems to have a problem with ID and has not mentioned eligibility at all.

 

As previously suggested by nufsaid a birth certificate is easily available which will show not only his country of birth but also the district.

 

However, if the OP is applying for jobs and the employer wants proof in the form of a passport then the OP would obviously need one. Or just apply for jobs that don't require that if it is a problem of finance in getting a passport.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Thanks Paul - Some people seem to think that it is possible to know at a glance whether every employee is legally entitled to work in the UK - in the event that you get it wrong and end up on the wrong side of the law the ONLY defence available is to have verified this prior to appointment and the only documents acceptable to the Home Office are those stated above. Employers therefore must check these documents for EVERY employee appointed.

 

 

 

Sarcasm doesn't become you - especially when you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Then if you do actually employ staff for a living then you are not very good at your job obviously.

 

So every worker in the UK has to have a passport??

 

Do you not realise that 22 million UK people have never been abroad and, so, probably have no passport?

 

You are quite unbelievable.

[becka]

Weird Al - you don't have to provide a passport. The guidance states (from above)

LIST 1 (THE PASSPORT etc LIST)

Any one of these documents will provide proof that the (potential) employee is eligible to work in the UK. Once you have checked any one of these documents from your (potential) employee, you do not need to ask for further documents contained in list 2.

OR

The (potential) employee must provide one of the documents listed in A and one of the documents listed in section B-H.

ALL PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEES MUST PRODUCE ONE OR OTHER OF THESE TO BE TAKEN ON - EVEN IF YOU SIGN UP WITH AN AGENCY

The others are not unbelievable ... just able to read entire posts before getting on high horses

[Sidewinder]

From the Home Office

Complying with the law

 

Employers should check all prospective employees' entitlement to work in the United Kingdom, or they risk breaking the law. The checks that should be, or have been undertaken depend on when the employee is, or was recruited. Employers can find details on these pages about their current legal responsibilities and check whether they complied with law when taking on employees in the past.

 

Checks for staff employed from 29 February 2008

Sections 15 to 26 of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality 2006 came into force on 29 February 2008.

 

Under the 2006 Act, you are are liable to payment of a civil financial penalty if you employ a person aged 16 or over who is subject to immigration control and who has no permission to work in the United Kingdom, or who works for you in breach of their conditions of stay in the United Kingdom.

 

Whilst the 2006 Act makes employers liable to civil penalties for employing illegal migrant workers, it also allows employers to have an excuse against payment of a civil penalty for doing so. Employers can have the excuse by carrying out specific checks on the original documents of prospective employees. Employers will only have the excuse for employees with time-limited leave to be in the UK if they carry out repeat checks at least once every 12 months. The documents that should be, or have been checked for staff employed from 29 February 2008 are described in the guidance booklets published by the UK Border Agency in February 2008.

Avoiding racial discrimination

 

It is important to remember that the population of the United Kingdom is ethnically diverse. Many people from ethnic minorities in this country are British citizens and many non-British citizens from black and minority ethnic communities are entitled to work here. Therefore, it must not be assumed that someone from an ethnic minority is an immigrant, or that someone born abroad is not entitled to work in the United Kingdom.

Employers who refuse to consider anyone who looks or sounds foreign are likely to be unlawfully discriminating on racial grounds. If document checks are carried out only for prospective employees who by their appearance or accent seem not to be British, this too may constitute unlawful racial discrimination. Where complaints of racial discrimination are upheld by a Tribunal, employers can be ordered to pay compensation for which there is no upper limit.

 

Employers have a legal duty under current race relations legislation to avoid unlawfully discriminating on racial grounds and are therefore advised to undertake document checks on every prospective employee. The best way for employers to make sure that they do not discriminate is to treat all job applicants in the same way at each stage of their recruitment process.

 

Of course if you are able to know with 100% accuracy that somebody is a UK National then you can have the confidence to recruit without requiring proof, but you will then have no defence whatsoever to an allegation of racial discrimination against a potential employee from an ethnic group whose documents you have asked to see.

 

Not all UK citizens have a passport and, actually, are not compelled to do so.[/Quote]

 

Which is why there is the alternative of producing two alternative forms of ID. Either one item from List 1 OR A National Insurance Card plus a Birth Certificate or Home Office issued document of Eligibility.

 

Any competent HR manager would be able to come to the conclusion the applicant is a UK citizen from the answers given.

[/Quote]

 

So I must therefore be incompetent by your assumption that I should be able to tell not only who is a UK National or EEA entitled candidate but also which of those of I am not 100% sure about are not likely to accuse me of discrimination in asking for proof?

 

However, if the OP is applying for jobs and the employer wants proof in the form of a passport then the OP would obviously need one. Or just apply for jobs that don't require that if it is a problem of finance in getting a passport.[/Quote]

 

Nobody said anything about him having to have a passport. A passport is the ultimate photo ID and is acceptable on its own, otherwise it is a NI card (which has no photo) plus Birth Certificate (extra detail) or Home Office certified eligibility.

 

You may be lucky and not be asked to prove eligibility but will be pretty gutted if it is asked for and you cannot take a much needed job through arguing the rights and wrongs of the Home Office advice to employers!

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Weird Al - you don't have to provide a passport. The guidance states (from above)

LIST 1 (THE PASSPORT etc LIST)

Any one of these documents will provide proof that the (potential) employee is eligible to work in the UK. Once you have checked any one of these documents from your (potential) employee, you do not need to ask for further documents contained in list 2.

 

OR

 

The (potential) employee must provide one of the documents listed in A and one of the documents listed in section B-H.

 

ALL PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEES MUST PRODUCE ONE OR OTHER OF THESE TO BE TAKEN ON - EVEN IF YOU SIGN UP WITH AN AGENCY

 

The others are not unbelievable ... just able to read entire posts before getting on high horses

 

OR

 

The (potential) employee must provide one of the documents listed in A and one of the documents listed in section B-H.

Must provide one from the first list!!

That is either a passport or an ID card or a Residency Permit or a Registration Card.

Since UK nationals are not issued, or not required, to have an ID card, Residency Permit or a Registration Card then only a passport is acceptable and one from list 2.

Not all UK nationals have a passport as they may never need, or even, want one!

This is not a requirement for a UK citizen to work in the UK!!

This legislation is for the eligibility of non-UK nationals!!

I can read posts but you have obviously failed to do so!

[Sidewinder]

Then if you do actually employ staff for a living then you are not very good at your job obviously.

 

So every worker in the UK has to have a passport??

 

Do you not realise that 22 million UK people have never been abroad and, so, probably have no passport?

 

You are quite unbelievable.

 

What is unbelievable is that somebody so obviously qualified as you seem to be cannot take the time to read what is in front of him.

 

Where on earth is it stated that you have to have a passport?

 

May I suggest, Sir, that you refrain from offering bad advice and aiming to insult those whose job it is to know the current legislation. Stick to subjects which you do have some knowledge of.

 

Then if you do actually employ staff for a living then you are not very good at your job obviously.

 

After 16 years I would have expected somebody far better qualified than you to tell me before now.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

What is unbelievable is that somebody so obviously qualified as you seem to be cannot take the time to read what is in front of him.

 

Where on earth is it stated that you have to have a passport?

 

What other documentation in List 1 can a UK national have other than a passport?

 

May I suggest, Sir, that you refrain from offering bad advice and aiming to insult those whose job it is to know the current legislation. Stick to subjects which you do have some knowledge of.

 

 

 

After 16 years I would have expected somebody far better qualified than you to tell me before now.

 

Answer that please?

[Sidewinder]

OR

 

The (potential) employee must provide one of the documents listed in A and one of the documents listed in section B-H.

 

Must provide one from the first list!!

 

That is either a passport or an ID card or a Residency Permit or a Registration Card.

 

Since UK nationals are not issued, or not required, to have an ID card, Residency Permit or a Registration Card then only a passport is acceptable and one from list 2.

 

Not all UK nationals have a passport as they may never need, or even, want one!

 

This is not a requirement for a UK citizen to work in the UK!!

 

This legislation is for the eligibility of non-UK nationals!!

 

I can read posts but you have obviously failed to do so!

 

For the benefit of those not paying attention at the back.

 

Must provide one from the first list

 

Passport, ID Card, Residency Permit, or Registration Card

 

OR

 

The (potential) employee must provide one of the documents listed in A and one of the documents listed in section B-H

 

ONE OF THESE

 

A - A document giving the person's permanent National Insurance Number and name or a P45, P60, National Insurance card or a letter from a Government Agency

 

AND ALSO ONE OF THE FOLLOWING

 

B. A full birth certificate issued in the UK, which includes the names of the holder's parents; or

C. A birth certificate issued in the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man or Ireland; or

D. A certificate of registration or naturalisation stating that the holder is a British Citizen; or

E. A letter issued by the Home Office to the holder which indicates that the person named in it can stay indefinitely in the UK, or has not time limit on their stay; or

F. An immigration Status Document issued by the Home Office to the holder with an endorsement indicating that the person named in it can stay indefinitely in the UK, or has not time limit on their stay; or

G. A letter issued by the Home Office to the holder which indicates that the person named in it can stay in the UK, and this allows them to do the type of work you are offering; or

H. An immigration Status Document issued by the Home Office to the holder with an endorsement indicating that the person named in it can stay in the UK, and this allows them to do the type of work you are offering.

 

You can read posts, but seemingly not understand them.

[becka]

one of the documents listed in A

A. A document giving the person's permanent National Insurance Number and name or a P45, P60, National Insurance card or a letter from a Government Agency

soooooo .... not a passport residency card or anything like that BUT something with his NI number on it (maybe the card .... a P45 .... a P60) alternatively a letter from a Government Agency ... I don't know like maybe uh THE BENEFIT AGENCY

and then something from B-H .... in this case the birth certificate would be best bet

LIST 1 is a completely seperate entity to A

[becka]

Sorry Sidewinder .... obviously typing at same time there!!

[Sidewinder]

Answer that please?

 

I already have, as have others. The gracious thing to do would be to bow out before you destroy your credibility altogether.

[Sidewinder]

The legislation is indeed for the eligibility of non-UK Nationals

 

The Home Office guidance however is to fulfuil the needs of the Immigration Act AND to protect empoloyers from the very real allegation Racial Discrimination through only checking the documents of non-UK Nationals.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Weird Al - you don't have to provide a passport. The guidance states (from above)

LIST 1 (THE PASSPORT etc LIST)

Any one of these documents will provide proof that the (potential) employee is eligible to work in the UK. Once you have checked any one of these documents from your (potential) employee, you do not need to ask for further documents contained in list 2.

 

OR

 

The (potential) employee must provide one of the documents listed in A and one of the documents listed in section B-H.

 

ALL PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEES MUST PRODUCE ONE OR OTHER OF THESE TO BE TAKEN ON - EVEN IF YOU SIGN UP WITH AN AGENCY

 

The others are not unbelievable ... just able to read entire posts before getting on high horses

 

Which is my point!

 

A UK employee doesn't need to produce a passport, a birth certificate or even a P45/P60 or anything to work for an employer in the UK.

 

In the absence of P45/P60's, or even if an individual doesn't know their NI number, then the Tax Office will deal with that from the info from the employer gained from the employee. This often happens and a worker is put onto the emergency tax code with a temp NI number until it is sorted out.

 

So now you are saying that in the absence of a passport a UK worker must have some other forms of ID to work in the UK!

 

This is just not true.

 

And the legislation is not a requirement on UK workers whatsoever-it is for possible illegal employment of migrants.

 

Just because your company may follow it doesn't mean every firm in Britain does or even has to when hiring UK workers!

[Sidewinder]

Just because your company may follow it doesn't mean every firm in Britain does or even has to when hiring UK workers!

 

So you are suggesting that the OP should make a point of asking when applying for jobs whether the prospective employer is likely to ask for ID?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

The legislation is indeed for the eligibility of non-UK Nationals

 

The Home Office guidance however is to fulfuil the needs of the Immigration Act AND to protect empoloyers from the very real allegation Racial Discrimination through only checking the documents of non-UK Nationals.

 

Ahhh, well thank you!

 

Very different from your first post where you stated 'all workers must produce the following...'

 

That is not the case and I pointed that out.

 

I focused on List 1 to prove to you that a UK national may well not have anything within that. I could then move onto List 2.

 

List 2 can also be beyond a UK worker to get whatever is listed.

 

The important thing from this thread is the very subject of it.

 

The OP says he had trouble with ID and then you post up legislation that concerns migrant workers!!!

 

A UK national could start work tomorrow without the need to produce any documentation whatsoever should the employer accept that.

 

You be gracious instead.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

So you are suggesting that the OP should make a point of asking when applying for jobs whether the prospective employer is likely to ask for ID?

 

No, I am suggesting what I advised in my very first post. He may have a utility bill in his name and, as nufsaid stated, he could easily get a copy of his birth certificate.

 

If that is not good enough for some employers then photographic evidence may be needed which could well be his problem.

 

I can think of only a passport and driver's licence that would show this. He may not drive and has no use for a passport.

 

However, your first post was that the OP must show some form of ID as a statutory requirement.

 

That is not the case and now you seem to recognise that.

[Mrs_Ryan]

In some jobs they are very strict on ID - especially those that require CRB checks. Ive been going for jobs in the NHS and I had a nightmare because I dont have a passport - I had to call my mum and ask her to go and get a copy of my birth certificate then post it to me... I literally only had a couple of days to do it, but thankfully we got there in the end...

 

So really does this mean because I dont have a passport I shouldnt be working in my job?! this is crazy!! my birth certificate states I was born well in the boundaries of the UK in the Metropolitan District of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, and my parents birthplaces as Cumbria and Northumberland respectively, meaning they were both born and are resident in the UK as proved by the address given.

 

I really dont see why it would be necessary to to have to have a passport as well in order to apply for a job....yes ok it proves I am a UK citizen but so does my birth certificate!

[Weird Al Yankovic]

No Mrs Ryan, there only appears to be something to worry about because of the legislation quoted by sidewinder which is a red herring and concerns migrant workers.

 

Your example is the perfect circumstance that I was putting across with regard to this thread.

 

You are a UK citizen working in the UK and and no law says you have to prove your eligibility to work by virtue of a driving licence, passport, birth certificate, NI number, etc etc.

 

As in the OP's case, a house fire destroyed all his documents and he is having trouble proving his id to employers.

 

This is not the same as proving his eligibility to work in the UK, as sidewinder insisted and which his quoted legislation refers to.

 

However, some businesses will state they will need a passport/driving licence as proof of id and that is up to them. What is important here is that a lot of people neither drive or go abroad on holiday so will not have either.

 

This should not be a barrier to work so if this circumstance happens in the future may I suggest that you contact the HR dept of your prospective employer and explain your situation.

 

I'm sure this event would not be unique and that they have procedures in place for this event. (Such as simply reading your application!)

 

Maybe sidewinder will retract his misinformation that is akin to scaremongering.

 

Good luck Mrs Ryan.