Cygnet Finance Sold Us Ppi For Car Loan Whilst Hubby Was Off Work Sick Please Help Us

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi all.

 

Have finally had a reply off Cygnet...and it certainly was worse than I expected it to be:eek:

 

They reckon that, and I quote; "A rebate of the insurace premium and a rebate of interest, relating to the loan for the premium, have been credited to your account, amounting to £401.39.

 

Are they having a laugh!!!!!! AND to top it all off, they may have cancelled the platinum policy, but they haven't dropped my monthly payments by a single penny! How can this be so??

 

If you look back on my notes you will see that I pay approx £150 per month in PPI and whatnot.

 

On a small plus note, because they've credited my account with the amount above, I don't have to worry until 19th May about having the car rep'od again:(

 

I need some sort of letter stating;

 

1. Why hasn't my account been credited with the proper rebate and interest, which is approx a few thousand.

2. Why haven't my payments dropped accordingly with the cancellation of the platinum policy.

3. Why haven't I got a new balance, minus the platinum insurance.

4. Anything else anybody can think of would be greatly appreciated too:)

 

I will try and draft up a letter and copy it on here...but I'm useless lol

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

[alanalana]

Hello cheapbangerplease,

They didn't say they wouldn't cancel the PPI Hell, they just told me that I wouldn't get a penny back of what I had already paid as they paid the premium (a single one) at the beginning of the finance to the insurance company!!!!

 

That then is up to them to sort out with the insurance company. You are entitled to cancel the PPI and I believe you should be entitled to a full refund of the balance of the PPI loan and PPI interest that is still outstanding ie all monies paid by you should have been deducted from the total.

 

It is not your fault they have obtained the PPI insurance from a third party it is Cygnet who set up the contract for the CCA with you which included the PPI.

 

Firstly if the PPI is cancelled then your monthly payment should have been reduced by a certain amount (Not always the amount you expect as the banks have a wierd system of you pay back the interest on the PPI first then the PPI loan) I would certainly question this and demand to see how they keep your monthly premiums the same but with the PPI cancelled.

 

I am not certain if this will help but you may wish to consider it.

 

We bought our present car from Approved Car Finance, financed by Cygnet Financial Services Ltd (offices above car sowroom) in April 2005.

 

After this I telephoned Cygnet and said I would like to cancel the PPI. I was told by all means I could do this but I would receive NO REFUND at all and would not be covered for the rest of the car finance term! Just a £25 good will gesture!

 

Naughy statement this as I believe this goes against the FSA ruling.

 

The FSA made a ruling on the PPI issue 14 Jan 2005 so it appears Cygnet have failed to comply with this.

 

Payment protection | Were you mis-sold PPI? | PPI - the rules

 

 

 

Your premium a single premium, this type of premium is frowned upon by the FOS

I would certainly write a letter of complaint to the FOS with a copy to the OFT. You should consider a final demand to Cygnet asking for the full refund of the PPI and Interest applied to it. With a little note stating that a refusal will result in a formal complaint to the FOS.

 

Now I have typed all of the above without reading your every post so I am just hoping this may spur you on to keep up the fight.

 

My thread has lots of examples of comlaint type letters if you wish to get an idea to draft your own.

 

good luck;-)

 

aa

Edited May 10, 2008 by alanalana
text and link added

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Alana.

 

Nice to have you on board:)

 

Thanks for all your comments and pointers...they have been a great help to say the least.

 

I have been trolling through stickys, links and threads for ages, and have finally put together some sort of a letter to those people again.

 

"us address"

 

"them address"

 

ACCOUNT NO:- xxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam.

 

RE: RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER SENT TO US ON 9TH MAY 2008 REGARDING THE CANCELLATION OF OUR PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE.

We wish to query the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest .

 

We also wish for a FULL COMPLETE BREAKDOWN of why we have only received £401.39 in total? As, we believe we are entitled to a full refund of the balance of the Payment Protection Insurance, and, the Payment Protection Insurance interest, that is still outstanding on our loan.

We would also wish for a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance?

We would also wish for the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest.

If we do not receive a favourable response from yourselves, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge formal complaints against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, again, the courts.

As a footnote, we ARE aware that the FSA made a new ruling regarding PPI on 14th January 2005.

Yours sincerely.

us

Hows that? I know it's not perfect, but I'm hoping some nice person will come along and tweak it a bit for me so I can send it off to them tomorrow, via 1st class recorded delivery of course.

 

Thanks again

 

Cheapbangerplease

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Alana.

 

Nice to have you on board:)

 

Thanks for all your comments and pointers...they have been a great help to say the least.

 

I have been trolling through stickys, links and threads for ages, and have finally put together some sort of a letter to those people again.

 

"us address"

 

"them address"

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam.

ACCOUNT NO:- xxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated XXXXXXXXXX

 

We wish to query the amount of rebate of insurance premium, and interest applied to the above loan.

 

We require a FULL COMPLETE BREAKDOWN of the rebate and why we have only received £401.39 in total. We believe, we are entitled to a full refund of the balance of the Payment Protection Insurance, and, the Payment Protection Insurance interest, that is still outstanding on our loan.

 

We would also wish for a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance?

 

We would also wish for the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest.

 

If we do not receive a favourable response from yourselves, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge formal complaints against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, again, the courts.

 

As a footnote, we ARE aware that the FSA made a new ruling regarding PPI on 14th January 2005.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

us

 

Hows that? I know it's not perfect, but I'm hoping some nice person will come along and tweak it a bit for me so I can send it off to them tomorrow, via 1st class recorded delivery of course.

 

Thanks again

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

Hello CBP

 

It does look as though they have now cancelled the ppi and rebated what is left into the account. They have not refunded the ppi and interest that you have paid them.

 

I have started lookin at you letter but need to know, What did they put in their letter, can you type it up please

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Hell.

 

Yep, you are right they have cancelled the PPI. But as far as they're concerned £401.39 is all we're owed, which is a load of rubbish, as we still owe about £8500, which includes the PPI!!

 

To tell you the truth, there's not much else in the letter. Here it is;

 

"us address"

 

Dear us

 

RE xxxxxxx Cancellation of Platinum Insurance

 

Further to your letter of 30th April 2008, we have cancelled the platinum policy.

 

A rebate of the insurance premium and a rebate of interest, relating to the loan for the premium, have been credited to your account, amounting to £401.39.

 

Your account is now prepaid by £xxx.xx however your next payment will fall due on 19th May 2008 hence a payment of £xxx.xx will then be required.

 

If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

them

 

That's it!

 

What do you think hell?

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

PS I haven't started the ball rolling on claiming back the payments I have already made...that's when, as you say, world war iii starts:)

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Hell/Alana/Car/all.

 

Sorry I've not been around but I've been really ill for the last few days and totally out of it. Oh well I've lost nearly a stone in weight, so I can't complain:D

 

On a serious note tomorrow is payment due day again, and then default notice, seizure, yep you all know how it works. So I will be sending my letter (draft 2 messages ago) out tomorrow via usual 1st class recorded.

 

If no lovely person;) comes back to me to give it a tweak here or there I will send as is, hoping that it's ok if I get no replies:D

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

[alanalana]

Hello cheapbangerplease,

 

We wish to query (we question the accuracy of your figure of £xxx.xx on) the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest . (as we do not believe this to be the correct figure for the required refund)

 

We also wish (demand) for a FULL COMPLETE BREAKDOWN of (explaining comrehensively) why we have only received £401.39 in total? As, we believe (are certain) we are entitled to a full refund of the balance of the Payment Protection Insurance, and, the Payment Protection Insurance interest, that is still outstanding on our loan.

 

We would also wish (further demand) for a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance?

 

We would also (require you to supply)wish for the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest.

 

If we do not receive (you fail to provide us with) a favourable response from yourselves, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge a formal complaints against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, again, the (we will proceed with appropriate action through the) courts.

 

As a footnote, we ARE aware that the FSA made a new ruling regarding PPI on 14th January 2005.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

us

 

 

I would suggest a few minor changes see the red inserts it may not be polite but will get their attention a little more. The red could replace the underlines and the blue of.

 

I hope you are happy with this it is just a suggestion as I think it may make them more inclined to think they cannot treat your claim lightly.

 

I will let you decide.

 

Good luck anyway

aa

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi all.

 

Received a reply off Cygnet....omg it's like a book and it still doesn't answer all the questions I asked:rolleyes:

 

Here it is;

 

Dear us

 

We understand from your letter dated xxxxx and subsequent telephone call (they phoned me and I wouldn't say much on the phone about anything) that you disagree with the amount of rebate given upon cancellation of your platinum cover.

 

Upon receipt of a written request to cancel a payment protection policy the Insurer will retain a portion of the premium in proportion to the time you have been on cover and refund the balance to the Lender to be used to reduce the outstanding balance.

 

Since the amount that may have to be paid in the event of a successful claim is greater at the beinning of the term than at the end the refund is not calculated on a pro rata basis but on a formula that reflects the way the risk changes over the loan.

 

The rebate we have provided has been calculated as per the method we have agreed with the FSA and is based on the rebate you would be afforded upon settlement which due to your reduced repayments (explained at the beginning of my thread) and extended term has actually given you a larger rebate than would be provided had your account been running in line with the original contract terms. Although your account term has been extended to accommodate the court ruling (We took them to court for a Time Out Order) the insurance policy remains over the original 48 month term.

 

We have also included a rebate of interest reflecting the removal of this proportion of your payment protection policy.

 

Rebate of Premium £205.91

Rebate of Interest £195.48

Total Rebate £401.39

 

Please be assured, if you had informed us that the policy had been missold (am doing that next, but needed to sort this out first) we would have referrred the matter for full investigation to our Compliance Department and if this was found to be correct the original premium and all relating interest would be removed from your agreement.

 

In response to your "demand for a written explanation as to why your monthly payments had not been reduced". Generally we can either reduce your repayments over the term of the agreement or apply the refund as a lump sum. The financial benefit to yourself is the same as we do not apply any additional interest or charges to your outstanding balance. The £401.39 is simply deducted off the remaining gross amount payable.

 

We trust this letter has covered the points raised in your correspondence.

 

them

 

Ok my head is spinning now:confused:

 

Does this mean is still have to pay the agreed monthly payments which still includes the PPI??? As they can seriously go to hell!!!!! If they are not going to drop my monthly payments, that means in my eyes I'm still getting charged a total of approx £150 per month for the PPI (shown in a couple of the older messages)

The way I see it now, they have cancelled the PPI, so why haven't they adjusted my monthly payments to suit? I've also not been given an up-to-date balance.

 

What do I do next? Do I just carry on paying the same monthly amount or just pay them the monthly amount without the PPI? Shall I start the ball rolling now for being missold my PPI in the first place?

 

HELP!!!!

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

[hellhasnofury]

Hi all.

 

Received a reply off Cygnet....omg it's like a book and it still doesn't answer all the questions I asked:rolleyes:

 

Here it is;

 

Dear us

 

We understand from your letter dated xxxxx and subsequent telephone call (they phoned me and I wouldn't say much on the phone about anything)that you disagree with the amount of rebate given upon cancellation of your platinum cover.

 

Upon receipt of a written request to cancel a payment protection policy the Insurer will retain a portion of the premium in proportion to the time you have been on cover and refund the balance to the Lender to be used to reduce the outstanding balance.

 

Since the amount that may have to be paid in the event of a successful claim is greater at the beinning of the term than at the end the refund is not calculated on a pro rata basis but on a formula that reflects the way the risk changes over the loan.

 

The rebate we have provided has been calculated as per the method we have agreed with the FSA and is based on the rebate you would be afforded upon settlement which due to your reduced repayments (explained at the beginning of my thread) and extended term has actually given you a larger rebate than would be provided had your account been running in line with the original contract terms. Although your account term has been extended to accommodate the court ruling (We took them to court for a Time Out Order) the insurance policy remains over the original 48 month term.

 

We have also included a rebate of interest reflecting the removal of this proportion of your payment protection policy.

 

Rebate of Premium £205.91

Rebate of Interest £195.48

Total Rebate £401.39

 

Please be assured, if you had informed us that the policy had been missold (am doing that next, but needed to sort this out first) we would have referrred the matter for full investigation to our Compliance Department and if this was found to be correct the original premium and all relating interest would be removed from your agreement.

 

In response to your "demand for a written explanation as to why your monthly payments had not been reduced". Generally we can either reduce your repayments over the term of the agreement or apply the refund as a lump sum. The financial benefit to yourself is the same as we do not apply any additional interest or charges to your outstanding balance. The £401.39 is simply deducted off the remaining gross amount payable.

 

We trust this letter has covered the points raised in your correspondence.

 

them

 

Ok my head is spinning now:confused:

 

Does this mean is still have to pay the agreed monthly payments which still includes the PPI??? As they can seriously go to hell!!!!! If they are not going to drop my monthly payments, that means in my eyes I'm still getting charged a total of approx £150 per month for the PPI (shown in a couple of the older messages)

 

The way I see it now, they have cancelled the PPI, so why haven't they adjusted my monthly payments to suit? I've also not been given an up-to-date balance.

 

What do I do next? Do I just carry on paying the same monthly amount or just pay them the monthly amount without the PPI? Shall I start the ball rolling now for being missold my PPI in the first place?

 

HELP!!!!

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

Hello CBP,

 

Well I think what is the usual practice in front loaded single premium ppi, is that you pay the ppi and interest of at the start of the loan:mad:. So what you are paying now for is the car.

 

So that is why they have only refunded back the £400ish. It will have reduced the balance, so therefore the payment should reduce or the lenght of term should reduce.

 

Write back to them and again request a breadown of the refund, the monthly payments and the lenght of term outstanding. Tell them that you are extremely disappoint with their previous response.

 

If you draft it up, we can have a look at it for you:D

 

Meanwhile you can start the ball rolling with the ppi refund. There are a few little aces up your sleeve. We have to question all of the little aces, ie apr rate,(extortionate credit bargain) different dates, and different amounts of these agreements. I know you stated that you were weary of sending off a section 77/78 request to these clowns, but personally I would, it may open up a lovely new can of worms

[chaos63]

Hi ,

I have just quickly read through this thread and looking at your Bill of Sale it does not mention the correct amount of the loan this means that it is unenforceable therefore the loan is not secured on your car.This means that they cannot seize the car as they will be breaking thne law.You should hide your car or park it somewhere else and consult a solicitor if you are entitled to legal aid Stephensons Solicitors Welcome - Stephensons Solicitors (Leigh, Wigan, Manchester, Bolton, St Helens) - Family, Commercial Law, Conveyancing deal with these kind of issues and I recommend that you contact them anyway.With regard to your PPI you should contact The Finanancial Ombudsman

Financial Ombudsman Service and ask their advice.

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Hell/Alana/Chaos/All

 

First I forgot to thank you Alana for the extra little bits you added to my letter for me - thanks:D

 

Hell, with regards to this bit; Well I think what is the usual practice in front loaded single premium ppi, is that you pay the ppi and interest of at the start of the loan:evil:. So what you are paying now for is the car.

How can they do that? I have a CA infront of me that states that they want; 48 monthly Insurance Payments each of £150ish

 

So if they have used some of the money we have paid, to pay off all the ppi and interest, surely that's illegal as they have broken the terms of the CA, by not taking the money at the agreed monthly amount?

To Chaos, I have checked my Bill of Sale and it states only the actual amount of the cost of the car and the cost of the Finance charges. The rest of the CA amounts are purely Insurance Products, their Arrangement Fee, and, Credit Facility Fee, which I'm sure they aren't allowed to put on a Bill of Sale anyway....shame though as I'd love the Bill of Sale to be illegal or unenforceable, it would make my day:D

Thanks for the tip about Stephensons:) I will give them a ring and see if there is anything they can do for us.

Here is my latest draft;

"us"

"them"

ACCOUNT NO:- xxxxxxxx

Dear x.

 

RE: RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER SENT TO US ON 22nd MAY 2008 REGARDING THE REFUND OF OUR PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE AND PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE INTEREST.

We STILL question the accuracy of your figure of £401.39 on the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest. As we STILL do not believe this to be the correct figure for the required refund.

 

We demand a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance? As, according to our Credit Agreement, and I quote; "Total Amount Payable by 48 monthly Insurance Payments each of £150ish." We have only paid approximately 34 monthly Insurance Payments, so I ask myself this; "Where is the proper rebate of approximately £1800 off our outstanding balance?"

 

We also require you to supply the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest, as you failed to supply us with this information in our previous letter to yourselves, dated 20th May 2008.

We would also like written confirmation of the length of the term oustanding.

If you fail to provide us with a favourable response, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge a formal complaint against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, we will proceed with the appropritate action through the courts.

Yours sincerely.

us

Please feel free to tweak it in any way you please.

Thanks

Cheapbangerplease

PS Hell, I've forgotten what a section 77/78 is....lol:o

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi all.

 

Received default notice yesterday. So Notice of Seizure will be here within the week:(

 

Thought I would put up the draft of the letter I have to start the ball rolling with the mis selling of the PPI.

 

"us"

 

"them"

 

We believe we have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of our premiums, plus interest paid.

 

 

We took out £xxxxxxxxx worth of car finance with yourselves, at your xxxxxxxx Branch on 19th April 2005 and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost us an extra £xxxxxx over the life of the loan. The name of the salesperson who sold us the policy is xxxxxxxxxxxx. The total amount of our premiums plus interest is £ xxxx.

 

The reasons for reclaiming are as follows;

 

I, being Mr x, was not in work or self employed at the time of sale. I was actually off work on sick leave.

 

Your salesperson knew this at the time of sale but did not point out to us that this would make the insurance policy useless to us.

 

At no time were we given the option of not taking out PPI by yourselves.

 

At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere.

 

It was not explained to us that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect us

 

Insurers are under an obligation to ensure that the policy they are selling is appropriate to the customer/s and clearly, as my employment situation means I am unable to claim on the policy, you have not fulfilled this requirement.

 

We are requesting a full refund of all our insurance payments, plus interest.

 

If we do not receive a favourable response from you we will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman Service, and indeed through the courts.

 

Yours sincerely

 

us

 

I'm going to send this letter and the letter in the message before this one, on Monday via 1st Class Recorded Delivery.

 

Anyone please feel free to jump in and tweak it for me or add anything important to it that I have missed out.

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

Edited May 31, 2008 by Cheapbangerplease
left names in I shouldn't have

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi all.

 

I'm really starting to panic now! So am sending the draft of my letter today as it is, even though no-one has had a look and told me whether it's ok or not:(. As below;

 

"us"

 

"them"

 

ACCOUNT NO:- xxxxxxxx

Dear x.

 

RE: RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER SENT TO US ON 22nd MAY 2008 REGARDING THE REFUND OF OUR PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE AND PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE INTEREST.

We STILL question the accuracy of your figure of £401.39 on the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest. As we STILL do not believe this to be the correct figure for the required refund.

 

We demand a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance? As, according to our Credit Agreement, and I quote; "Total Amount Payable by 48 monthly Insurance Payments each of £150ish." We have only paid approximately 34 monthly Insurance Payments, so I ask myself this; "Where is the proper rebate of approximately £1800 off our outstanding balance?"

 

We also require you to supply the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest, as you failed to supply us with this information in our previous letter to yourselves, dated 20th May 2008.

 

We would also like written confirmation of the length of the term oustanding.

 

If you fail to provide us with a favourable response, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge a formal complaint against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, we will proceed with the appropritate action through the courts.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

us

 

Am also going to send off the draft of my letter to start the ball rolling with the mis-selling of my PPI.

 

"us"

 

"them"

 

We believe we have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of our premiums, plus interest paid.

 

 

We took out £xxxxxxxxx worth of car finance with yourselves, at your xxxxxxxx Branch on 19th April 2005 and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost us an extra £xxxxxx over the life of the loan. The name of the salesperson who sold us the policy is xxxxxxxxxxxx. The total amount of our premiums plus interest is £ xxxx.

 

The reasons for reclaiming are as follows;

 

I, being Mr x, was not in work or self employed at the time of sale. I was actually off work on sick leave.

 

Your salesperson knew this at the time of sale but did not point out to us that this would make the insurance policy useless to us.

 

At no time were we given the option of not taking out PPI by yourselves.

 

At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere.

 

It was not explained to us that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect us

 

Insurers are under an obligation to ensure that the policy they are selling is appropriate to the customer/s and clearly, as my employment situation means I am unable to claim on the policy, you have not fulfilled this requirement.

 

We are requesting a full refund of all our insurance payments, plus interest.

 

If we do not receive a favourable response from you we will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman Service, and indeed through the courts.

 

Yours sincerely

 

us

 

 

I have to send it asap because I will be receiving my Notice of Seizure in the next couple of days.

 

I would be EXTREMELY GRATEFUL if someone does have the time to have a quick look over these two drafts, before I send them off about 4.30pm this afternoon.

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

PS; Could someone please explain what a section 77/78 is please?

[hellhasnofury]

Hi all.

 

I'm really starting to panic now! So am sending the draft of my letter today as it is, even though no-one has had a look and told me whether it's ok or not:(. As below;

 

"us"

 

"them"

 

Date

 

Dear x.

Name: xxxxxxxx

Account no: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

We are writing in response to your letter dated 22nd May regarding the confirmation of cancellation and the refund of the Payment Protection Insurance and Interest to the above account. You have informed us that the rebate figure is £401.39.

 

We STILL question the accuracy of your figure of £401.39 on the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest. As we STILL do not believe this to be the correct figure for the required refund.

We require the following information

1) We demand a written explanation as to why our monthly payments have not been reduced substantially with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance? This is in accordance with the Credit Agreement supplied by yourselves, quote; "Total Amount Payable by 48 monthly Insurance Payments each of £150ish.". We calculate that we have only paid approximately 34 monthly Insurance Payments, so we need clarification and an explaination of "Where is the proper rebate of approximately £1800 off our outstanding balance?"

 

2) We further require you to supply the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest, as you failed to supply us with this information in our previous letter to yourselves, dated 20th May 2008. This is most unsatisfactory.

 

3) We would also like written confirmation of the length of the term oustanding.

 

If you fail to provide us with a satisfactory response, we will be reporting this matter to the Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, and Trading Standards. We shall also ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to investigate our complaint, and, if the need arises, we will proceed with the appropritate action through the courts.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

us

 

 

Am also going to send off the draft of my letter to start the ball rolling with the mis-selling of my PPI.

 

"us"

"them"

Date

Dear XXXXXXX

Name: xxxxxxxxx

Account no: XXXXXXXXXX

It has now only become apparent to us, after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of ppi by finance companies.. This is when I requested the cancellation of the payment protection insurance, that was applied to the above loan.

We believe we have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy, by your Company, and would like to request a full refund of our premiums, plus the interest applied that we have paid your Company.

We took out £xxxxxxxxx worth of car finance with yourselves, at your xxxxxxxx Branch on 19th April 2005. This loan included payment protection insurance, which would cost us an extra £xxxxxx , plus interest of £xxxxx was calculated and added to the loan. The name of the salesperson who sold us the policy is xxxxxxxxxxxx.

The reasons for reclaiming the ppi and interest are as follows;

1). I, being Mr x, was not in work or self employed at the time of sale. I was actually off work on long term sick leave.

2). Your salesperson knew this at the time of sale but did not point out to us that this would make the insurance policy useless to us.

3) At no time were we given the option of not taking out PPI with the loan.

4) At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere, for a fraction of the cost.

5) It was not explained to us that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect us, making the policy useless.

Insurers are under an obligation to ensure that the policy they are selling is appropriate to the customer/s and clearly, as my employment situation means I am unable to claim on the policy, you have not fulfilled this requirement.

We are requesting a full refund of all our payment protection insurance payments, plus interest at your contractual rate.

 

If we do not receive a favourable response from you we will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman Service, and indeed through the courts, if necessary

Yours sincerely

us

I have to send it asap because I will be receiving my Notice of Seizure in the next couple of days.

 

I would be EXTREMELY GRATEFUL if someone does have the time to have a quick look over these two drafts, before I send them off about 4.30pm this afternoon.

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

PS; Could someone please explain what a section 77/78 is please?

 

Hello CBP,

 

I have put up a few changes to your letters, use them or delete them.

 

If you are scared that they will try to seize the car, then fight fire with fire. I see that you have taken them to court previously, so they do know that you do not make idle threats:-D

 

There may be a few little aces that you can throw at them. APR, extortionate credit bargan, mis-sold ppi, decrepancy in the figures:-D

 

Do sent a letter requesting a true copy of your credit agreement under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974. You will find the template letter in the debt forum under the last sticky general debt issues, you need letter N, send it recorded, with a £1 postal order and start the clock ticking. They have 12 working days to comply or they breach the cca you can then put the account into legal dispute, and if after a further 30days (12+30) they have commited a criminal offence. If they do come up with it, there is always the arguement regarding the Apr????????

 

Speak soon

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Hell/all

 

Just a quick update.

 

Have received a letter from Cygnet head office today, stating;

 

Dear us

 

We have today received a copy of your complaint from Cygnet Financial Services.

 

I am sorry to learn that your client has been dissatisfied with the service we have provided and can confirm that we will be conducting a thorough investigation into your concerns. Once we have completed this, we will contact you again.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of our internal Complaints Procedure for your information. Please take time to read this as it explains how we will deal with your complaint and when we will contact you again.

 

In the mean time, if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

them

 

To date I have still not received a copy of our CA, under section 77/78 and the letter was sent out on 3rd June.....I'm really hoping they don't send it out within the 12 days time period and my account can then go into legal dispute.

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

Edited June 11, 2008 by Cheapbangerplease
not finished

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Hell/All

 

Well it's the 12th working day and I haven't received a copy of our CA, under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Agreement!!! OH DEAR!! Such a shame I can now put my account into legal dispute:D...I just need some nice person to tell me how to actually do that?

 

We received our Notice of Seizure on 13th and we had until 7 days from the date of the letter to pay the outstanding amount we owed, which took us to yesterday (18th).

 

I telephoned them on 17th, and spoke to the boss, he said basically, he didn't care if our account is in legal dispute if we don't pay the money then they will come for the car on the 18th. He was snotty, condescending, and didn't care what I had to say. I told him the car wouldn't be there and he said he would contact the police stating it as stolen...I know the police won't get involved as I have spoken to them in the past regarding this matter, but what I don't know is if he reported the car as stolen can we get into trouble if we have hidden it? Does he have that power? Also do we still have to keep making payments if our account is in legal dispute? I ask this as our payment is due again by the end of the month and this is the end of the road for us as we have lost income that would have paid the monthly payments and we just can't do it anymore, so we need to get to court asap or I'm pretty certain the car will be gone by the end of this month.

 

We really need your help now guys.

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

Anyway since I wasn't sure about hiding the car and the consequences, we paid the money as I could see no other way out of it and I wasn't willing to take that chance:(

 

As thing stand now

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi all again.

 

I know it's only been two days since I wrote my last message, but am desperate now. So am bumping it upto the top again in the hope that someone will tell me how to put my account into legal dispute?

 

Thanks

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

PS We've still not received a true copy of our CA under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Agreement!!!

[car2403]

There isn't a letter to put the account in dispute, as your original request effectively does that until they have complied - they are given 12 working days + 2 to comply. If they don't they can't enforce the debt, or enforce any security under the agreement.

 

You could apply to the Court for a time order under s.129 CCA;

 

129.—(1) If it appears to the court just to do so—

(a) on an application for an enforcement order; or

(b) on an application made by a debtor or hirer under this paragraph after

service on him of—

(i) a default notice, or

(ii) a notice under section 76(1) or 98(1); or

© in an action brought by a creditor or owner to enforce a regulated

agreement or any security, or recover possession of any goods or land to which a

regulated agreement relates,

the court may make an order under this section (a " time order ").

 

Or, you could go the whole hog and apply for a declaration under s.142;

 

142.—(1) Where under any provision of this Act a thing can be done by a creditor or owner on an enforcement order only, and either—

(a) the court dismisses (except on technical grounds only) an application for an enforcement order, or

(b) where no such application has been made or such an application has been dismissed on technical grounds only, an interested party applies to the court for a declaration under this subsection the court may if it thinks just make a declaration that the creditor or owner is not entitled to do that thing, and thereafter no application for an enforcement order in

respect of it shall be entertained.

 

As they've failed to comply with your request, they can only enforce the debt by a Court order. As they don't seem to have an agreement, the Court is prevented by s.127(3) from enforcing the debt. The Court can make this declaration of unenforceability, but you will need to make an application to the Court to do so.

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi Chris.

 

Thanks so much for replying to my latest message:D

 

They've now actually had the 12 working day + 2 days you've mentioned in your message. I sent the letter on the 4th June, via 1st Class Recorded Delivery as usual.

 

Right the time out order......I already have a time out order in place on my account (explained at the beginning of my thread)

 

This time out order was made to the court, purely to have my monthly payments dropped from the original amount, to a lower amount each month. Since we went to court last year and were granted it, we've managed to pay the monthly payments each month....that is until this months payment fell due 2 days ago, but they normally give us until the end of the calender month to make payment. So in effect we are in breach of the time out order aren't we?

 

Is this time out order we have, different to the one you have quoted under section 129 and I have no idea what section 142 means or what a declaration is, sorry?

 

As it's all in legal jargon to me, could you just let me know what both of these sections mean in laymens terms please?

 

Thanks again

 

Cheapbangerplease

[car2403]

The time order is as you've stated, so probably wouldn't be of much use now. It's unlikely you'll be in breach of the order by missing payments for a few days, IMHO.

 

s.142 is very powerful. As this debt is unenforceable without the agreement, s.142 allows you to apply to the Court to declare the debt unenforceable. The issue will be that this may "spur" them on to finding the agreement, which could scupper your application. The likely response is a counterclaim for the amount of the outstanding debt, but there you go.

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi again Chris.

 

Thanks for explaining that to me. HHNF has told me that if they dont provide me with a true CA under s.77/78 of the CCA, that after I think it's 30 days they have committed a criminal offence....am not sure if it's another 30 days after the 12 + 2 will have to read my thread back.

 

I like the sound of the s.142. Am not worried if they respond with a counterclaim as I am already disputing the mis-sold PPI with them, the refund of the cancelled PPI for the rest of the CA they gave us, the total outstanding balance and have the complaint lodged with their head office who are looking into the matter as we speak.

 

What I'm worried about is that I just can't do this months payent so I will be a month behind on the time out order and I can't do nothing about it a all.

 

I would love to know if there is anything out there that can put my account on some sort of hold until the PPI matter is sorted out and gives me some time to catch up with this months payment?

 

Is there any way I can stop them from coming and taking our car after they have served us with another Notice of Seizure, which we are sure to receive at the end of this month after we have had another Default Notice?

 

Thanks again

 

Cheapbangerplease

[car2403]

Forget about the 30 days issue for now - realistically, that adds no value to your complaint at this stage. This second default is for Trading Standards to take action against them. Unfortunately, TS don't take this seriously, so, IMHO, you're wasting your time banging your head against that particular wall.

 

You now need to change your mindset, IMHO, as "no enforceable agreement" = "no legal obligation to pay". It might be uncomfortable, but that's the situation. Of course, this has no bearing on the actual existence of the debt, it just means it can't be enforced in Court. Usually, when a debt is unenforceable, the company will write it off, as they don't want an unenforceable debt that never has to be paid on their books. If you want to continue making reduced payments, they may accept that, in which case it's worth pointing out the debt is unenforceable, however you're willing to continue repaying £X (the reduced affordable payment) regardless. Heck, you could even make that conditional on refunding the charges/PPI applied first. I would also ask them to stop adding (unlawful!) interest, too!

 

As the debt is unenforceable, any Default Notice, or Seizure Notice would be invalid also - meaning they can't take the car. (Hence my post about theft earlier on)

 

Of course, your situation could do an "about-turn" if they come up with an enforceable agreement and they decide to take action against you, but I suppose that's the situation we're all in. More people have had success than those that have lost - about 90% (perhaps more!) of CCA's out there are unenforceable, from what I've seen...

[Cheapbangerplease]

Hi again Chris:)

 

Right I think I have got my thick head around this now!

 

As of right now because they haven't provided me with a true copy of my CA under s.77/78 of the CCA my CA in unenforceable?

 

So, I can go to court, get whatever forms I need and take them to court under s.142 of the CCA?

 

The problem is that if this gets them to pull their socks up and send me out one before I get them actually to court, I'm wasting my time?

 

But I can still carry on with my case for mis-sold PPI against them. Although I am happy just to pay the monthly payments without the said £150ish per month for the PPI/PPI interest.

 

Thanks again

 

Cheapbangerplease

 

PS Have I covered everything?

 

They added the interest at the beginning of my CA, which was also the same time that they added the PPI/PPI interest.

[Victim2008]

Hi Hell/All,

Why are we a victim of these people?

Why have they been allowed to continue these trend of making life unbearabe for people? I must be the newest victim with a very bad debt now and sleepless nights.

Hellhasnofury, please do all you can to see the end of this. We are solidly behind you. These people will keep on doing biz like untill we are all indebted to them for SIMPLE FOR NOT READING ABD DIGESTING THE AGREEMENT BEFORE SIGNING. where I come from it is known as 419!!!

my case is close to what i have read on this forum and looks exacly like we were all roped into this agreement becuase they can see the weekness and spot the KILL!!! No difference to 419 in my country NIGERIA!!!! My country is clasified as dangerous and corrupt due to this. Now I knwo better!!!

I will post my case in another subject line.

We must stop people from falling victims. Create awareness and let people know that car finance is WRONG if they all have same altitude and ways of doing business.