Hi again Chris:) Right I think I have got my thick head around this now! As of right now because they haven't provided me with a true copy of my CA under s.77/78 of the CCA my CA in unenforceable? So, I can go to court, get whatever forms I need and take them to court under s.142 of the CCA? The problem is that if this gets them to pull their socks up and send me out one before I get them actually to court, I'm wasting my time? But I can still carry on with my case for mis-sold PPI against them. Although I am happy just to pay the monthly payments without the said £150ish per month for the PPI/PPI interest. Thanks again Cheapbangerplease PS Have I covered everything? They added the interest at the beginning of my CA, which was also the same time that they added the PPI/PPI interest.

Hi again Chris. Thanks for explaining that to me. HHNF has told me that if they dont provide me with a true CA under s.77/78 of the CCA, that after I think it's 30 days they have committed a criminal offence....am not sure if it's another 30 days after the 12 + 2 will have to read my thread back. I like the sound of the s.142. Am not worried if they respond with a counterclaim as I am already disputing the mis-sold PPI with them, the refund of the cancelled PPI for the rest of the CA they gave us, the total outstanding balance and have the complaint lodged with their head office who are looking into the matter as we speak. What I'm worried about is that I just can't do this months payent so I will be a month behind on the time out order and I can't do nothing about it a all. I would love to know if there is anything out there that can put my account on some sort of hold until the PPI matter is sorted out and gives me some time to catch up with this months payment? Is there any way I can stop them from coming and taking our car after they have served us with another Notice of Seizure, which we are sure to receive at the end of this month after we have had another Default Notice? Thanks again Cheapbangerplease

Hi Chris. Thanks so much for replying to my latest message:D They've now actually had the 12 working day + 2 days you've mentioned in your message. I sent the letter on the 4th June, via 1st Class Recorded Delivery as usual. Right the time out order......I already have a time out order in place on my account (explained at the beginning of my thread) This time out order was made to the court, purely to have my monthly payments dropped from the original amount, to a lower amount each month. Since we went to court last year and were granted it, we've managed to pay the monthly payments each month....that is until this months payment fell due 2 days ago, but they normally give us until the end of the calender month to make payment. So in effect we are in breach of the time out order aren't we? Is this time out order we have, different to the one you have quoted under section 129 and I have no idea what section 142 means or what a declaration is, sorry? As it's all in legal jargon to me, could you just let me know what both of these sections mean in laymens terms please? Thanks again Cheapbangerplease

Hi all again. I know it's only been two days since I wrote my last message, but am desperate now. So am bumping it upto the top again in the hope that someone will tell me how to put my account into legal dispute? Thanks Cheapbangerplease PS We've still not received a true copy of our CA under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Agreement!!!

Hi again. Am really in need of some help now as I have to have something in writing for them by 26th June and I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. Could somebody please help? Thanks Cheapbangerplease

Hi Hell/All Well it's the 12th working day and I haven't received a copy of our CA, under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Agreement!!! OH DEAR!! Such a shame I can now put my account into legal dispute:D...I just need some nice person to tell me how to actually do that? We received our Notice of Seizure on 13th and we had until 7 days from the date of the letter to pay the outstanding amount we owed, which took us to yesterday (18th). I telephoned them on 17th, and spoke to the boss, he said basically, he didn't care if our account is in legal dispute if we don't pay the money then they will come for the car on the 18th. He was snotty, condescending, and didn't care what I had to say. I told him the car wouldn't be there and he said he would contact the police stating it as stolen...I know the police won't get involved as I have spoken to them in the past regarding this matter, but what I don't know is if he reported the car as stolen can we get into trouble if we have hidden it? Does he have that power? Also do we still have to keep making payments if our account is in legal dispute? I ask this as our payment is due again by the end of the month and this is the end of the road for us as we have lost income that would have paid the monthly payments and we just can't do it anymore, so we need to get to court asap or I'm pretty certain the car will be gone by the end of this month. We really need your help now guys. Thanks Cheapbangerplease Anyway since I wasn't sure about hiding the car and the consequences, we paid the money as I could see no other way out of it and I wasn't willing to take that chance:( As thing stand now

Hi Hell/all Just a quick update. Have received a letter from Cygnet head office today, stating; Dear us We have today received a copy of your complaint from Cygnet Financial Services. I am sorry to learn that your client has been dissatisfied with the service we have provided and can confirm that we will be conducting a thorough investigation into your concerns. Once we have completed this, we will contact you again. Please find enclosed a copy of our internal Complaints Procedure for your information. Please take time to read this as it explains how we will deal with your complaint and when we will contact you again. In the mean time, if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Yours sincerely. them To date I have still not received a copy of our CA, under section 77/78 and the letter was sent out on 3rd June.....I'm really hoping they don't send it out within the 12 days time period and my account can then go into legal dispute. Thanks Cheapbangerplease

Hi all. Here's my problem. I've been on DLA for 3 years. This is my second claim. My first claim went through, no problem. This claim has been denied. Has gone to reconsideration and has been denied again. This is the decision; Further evidence not required. Mrs X is in receipt of carers allowance and to be entitled to this somebody has to spend at least 35 hours a week caring for someone in receipt of particular rates of DLA or AA. Her claim needs are inconsistant with this and agree with the reasons for the decision dated 7th April 2008. As far as I can see I am being vindicated for caring for my 2 disabled children and claiming CA for them:o Funny thing is, I was claiming CA for my 2 children last time I claimed so I have no idea what's going on? I myself have become worse, and my 2 children are still disabled. My circumstances are; My eldest son has ADHD and Dyspraxia (muddled child syndrome). My middle son is Autistic. I have a blue badge. My husband doesn't work and is my full time carer, although he doesn't receive CA for me as I'm no longer in receipt of DLA. I'm in receipt of Incapacity Benefit. I'm only on the middle rate (nobody told me when I started to claim DLA that I should be claiming IB as well, which is why I'm not on the highest rate and getting the Disabled Premium to! I will be on the highest rate in November.) I'm under 2 specialists and my doctor knows everything about whats wrong with me. I was on Medium Care and Low Mobility. I have been told by someone in authority that I should really be on High Care and High Mobility now. I haven't had to go as far as this before to be awarded my DLA, and I have no idea what I'm going to say on my appeal form, that I haven't already put (in detail) on my claim form:confused: I would be really grateful if someone could point me in the right direction please. Thanks Cheapbangerplease

Hi all. I'm really starting to panic now! So am sending the draft of my letter today as it is, even though no-one has had a look and told me whether it's ok or not:(. As below; "us" "them" ACCOUNT NO:- xxxxxxxx Dear x. RE: RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER SENT TO US ON 22nd MAY 2008 REGARDING THE REFUND OF OUR PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE AND PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE INTEREST. We STILL question the accuracy of your figure of £401.39 on the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest. As we STILL do not believe this to be the correct figure for the required refund. We demand a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance? As, according to our Credit Agreement, and I quote; "Total Amount Payable by 48 monthly Insurance Payments each of £150ish." We have only paid approximately 34 monthly Insurance Payments, so I ask myself this; "Where is the proper rebate of approximately £1800 off our outstanding balance?" We also require you to supply the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest, as you failed to supply us with this information in our previous letter to yourselves, dated 20th May 2008. We would also like written confirmation of the length of the term oustanding. If you fail to provide us with a favourable response, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge a formal complaint against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, we will proceed with the appropritate action through the courts. Yours sincerely. us Am also going to send off the draft of my letter to start the ball rolling with the mis-selling of my PPI. "us" "them" We believe we have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of our premiums, plus interest paid. We took out £xxxxxxxxx worth of car finance with yourselves, at your xxxxxxxx Branch on 19th April 2005 and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost us an extra £xxxxxx over the life of the loan. The name of the salesperson who sold us the policy is xxxxxxxxxxxx. The total amount of our premiums plus interest is £ xxxx. The reasons for reclaiming are as follows; I, being Mr x, was not in work or self employed at the time of sale. I was actually off work on sick leave. Your salesperson knew this at the time of sale but did not point out to us that this would make the insurance policy useless to us. At no time were we given the option of not taking out PPI by yourselves. At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere. It was not explained to us that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect us Insurers are under an obligation to ensure that the policy they are selling is appropriate to the customer/s and clearly, as my employment situation means I am unable to claim on the policy, you have not fulfilled this requirement. We are requesting a full refund of all our insurance payments, plus interest. If we do not receive a favourable response from you we will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman Service, and indeed through the courts. Yours sincerely us I have to send it asap because I will be receiving my Notice of Seizure in the next couple of days. I would be EXTREMELY GRATEFUL if someone does have the time to have a quick look over these two drafts, before I send them off about 4.30pm this afternoon. Thanks Cheapbangerplease PS; Could someone please explain what a section 77/78 is please?

Hi all. Received default notice yesterday. So Notice of Seizure will be here within the week:( Thought I would put up the draft of the letter I have to start the ball rolling with the mis selling of the PPI. "us" "them" We believe we have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of our premiums, plus interest paid. We took out £xxxxxxxxx worth of car finance with yourselves, at your xxxxxxxx Branch on 19th April 2005 and also bought a payment protection policy which would cost us an extra £xxxxxx over the life of the loan. The name of the salesperson who sold us the policy is xxxxxxxxxxxx. The total amount of our premiums plus interest is £ xxxx. The reasons for reclaiming are as follows; I, being Mr x, was not in work or self employed at the time of sale. I was actually off work on sick leave. Your salesperson knew this at the time of sale but did not point out to us that this would make the insurance policy useless to us. At no time were we given the option of not taking out PPI by yourselves. At no time were we told that PPI could be purchased elsewhere. It was not explained to us that there were certain exclusions within the policy that could affect us Insurers are under an obligation to ensure that the policy they are selling is appropriate to the customer/s and clearly, as my employment situation means I am unable to claim on the policy, you have not fulfilled this requirement. We are requesting a full refund of all our insurance payments, plus interest. If we do not receive a favourable response from you we will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman Service, and indeed through the courts. Yours sincerely us I'm going to send this letter and the letter in the message before this one, on Monday via 1st Class Recorded Delivery. Anyone please feel free to jump in and tweak it for me or add anything important to it that I have missed out. Thanks Cheapbangerplease

Hi Hell/Alana/Chaos/All First I forgot to thank you Alana for the extra little bits you added to my letter for me - thanks:D Hell, with regards to this bit; Well I think what is the usual practice in front loaded single premium ppi, is that you pay the ppi and interest of at the start of the loan:evil:. So what you are paying now for is the car. How can they do that? I have a CA infront of me that states that they want; 48 monthly Insurance Payments each of £150ish So if they have used some of the money we have paid, to pay off all the ppi and interest, surely that's illegal as they have broken the terms of the CA, by not taking the money at the agreed monthly amount? To Chaos, I have checked my Bill of Sale and it states only the actual amount of the cost of the car and the cost of the Finance charges. The rest of the CA amounts are purely Insurance Products, their Arrangement Fee, and, Credit Facility Fee, which I'm sure they aren't allowed to put on a Bill of Sale anyway....shame though as I'd love the Bill of Sale to be illegal or unenforceable, it would make my day:D Thanks for the tip about Stephensons:) I will give them a ring and see if there is anything they can do for us. Here is my latest draft; "us" "them" ACCOUNT NO:- xxxxxxxx Dear x. RE: RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER SENT TO US ON 22nd MAY 2008 REGARDING THE REFUND OF OUR PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE AND PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE INTEREST. We STILL question the accuracy of your figure of £401.39 on the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest. As we STILL do not believe this to be the correct figure for the required refund. We demand a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance? As, according to our Credit Agreement, and I quote; "Total Amount Payable by 48 monthly Insurance Payments each of £150ish." We have only paid approximately 34 monthly Insurance Payments, so I ask myself this; "Where is the proper rebate of approximately £1800 off our outstanding balance?" We also require you to supply the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest, as you failed to supply us with this information in our previous letter to yourselves, dated 20th May 2008. We would also like written confirmation of the length of the term oustanding. If you fail to provide us with a favourable response, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge a formal complaint against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, we will proceed with the appropritate action through the courts. Yours sincerely. us Please feel free to tweak it in any way you please. Thanks Cheapbangerplease PS Hell, I've forgotten what a section 77/78 is....lol:o

Hi all. Received a reply off Cygnet....omg it's like a book and it still doesn't answer all the questions I asked:rolleyes: Here it is; Dear us We understand from your letter dated xxxxx and subsequent telephone call (they phoned me and I wouldn't say much on the phone about anything) that you disagree with the amount of rebate given upon cancellation of your platinum cover. Upon receipt of a written request to cancel a payment protection policy the Insurer will retain a portion of the premium in proportion to the time you have been on cover and refund the balance to the Lender to be used to reduce the outstanding balance. Since the amount that may have to be paid in the event of a successful claim is greater at the beinning of the term than at the end the refund is not calculated on a pro rata basis but on a formula that reflects the way the risk changes over the loan. The rebate we have provided has been calculated as per the method we have agreed with the FSA and is based on the rebate you would be afforded upon settlement which due to your reduced repayments (explained at the beginning of my thread) and extended term has actually given you a larger rebate than would be provided had your account been running in line with the original contract terms. Although your account term has been extended to accommodate the court ruling (We took them to court for a Time Out Order) the insurance policy remains over the original 48 month term. We have also included a rebate of interest reflecting the removal of this proportion of your payment protection policy. Rebate of Premium £205.91 Rebate of Interest £195.48 Total Rebate £401.39 Please be assured, if you had informed us that the policy had been missold (am doing that next, but needed to sort this out first) we would have referrred the matter for full investigation to our Compliance Department and if this was found to be correct the original premium and all relating interest would be removed from your agreement. In response to your "demand for a written explanation as to why your monthly payments had not been reduced". Generally we can either reduce your repayments over the term of the agreement or apply the refund as a lump sum. The financial benefit to yourself is the same as we do not apply any additional interest or charges to your outstanding balance. The £401.39 is simply deducted off the remaining gross amount payable. We trust this letter has covered the points raised in your correspondence. them Ok my head is spinning now:confused: Does this mean is still have to pay the agreed monthly payments which still includes the PPI??? As they can seriously go to hell!!!!! If they are not going to drop my monthly payments, that means in my eyes I'm still getting charged a total of approx £150 per month for the PPI (shown in a couple of the older messages) The way I see it now, they have cancelled the PPI, so why haven't they adjusted my monthly payments to suit? I've also not been given an up-to-date balance. What do I do next? Do I just carry on paying the same monthly amount or just pay them the monthly amount without the PPI? Shall I start the ball rolling now for being missold my PPI in the first place? HELP!!!! Thanks Cheapbangerplease

Hi Hell/Alana/Car/all. Sorry I've not been around but I've been really ill for the last few days and totally out of it. Oh well I've lost nearly a stone in weight, so I can't complain:D On a serious note tomorrow is payment due day again, and then default notice, seizure, yep you all know how it works. So I will be sending my letter (draft 2 messages ago) out tomorrow via usual 1st class recorded. If no lovely person;) comes back to me to give it a tweak here or there I will send as is, hoping that it's ok if I get no replies:D Thanks Cheapbangerplease

Hi Hell. Yep, you are right they have cancelled the PPI. But as far as they're concerned £401.39 is all we're owed, which is a load of rubbish, as we still owe about £8500, which includes the PPI!! To tell you the truth, there's not much else in the letter. Here it is; "us address" Dear us RE xxxxxxx Cancellation of Platinum Insurance Further to your letter of 30th April 2008, we have cancelled the platinum policy. A rebate of the insurance premium and a rebate of interest, relating to the loan for the premium, have been credited to your account, amounting to £401.39. Your account is now prepaid by £xxx.xx however your next payment will fall due on 19th May 2008 hence a payment of £xxx.xx will then be required. If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me. them That's it! What do you think hell? Thanks Cheapbangerplease PS I haven't started the ball rolling on claiming back the payments I have already made...that's when, as you say, world war iii starts:)

Hi Alana. Nice to have you on board:) Thanks for all your comments and pointers...they have been a great help to say the least. I have been trolling through stickys, links and threads for ages, and have finally put together some sort of a letter to those people again. "us address" "them address" ACCOUNT NO:- xxxxxxxxxx Dear Sir/Madam. RE: RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER SENT TO US ON 9TH MAY 2008 REGARDING THE CANCELLATION OF OUR PAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE. We wish to query the amount of rebate of both, the insurance premium, and, the rebate of the interest . We also wish for a FULL COMPLETE BREAKDOWN of why we have only received £401.39 in total? As, we believe we are entitled to a full refund of the balance of the Payment Protection Insurance, and, the Payment Protection Insurance interest, that is still outstanding on our loan. We would also wish for a written explanation as to why our monthly payments haven't been reduced accordingly with the cancellation of the Payment Protection Insurance? We would also wish for the latest up-to-date balance, minus the cancelled Payment Protection Insurance and Payment Protect Insurance interest. If we do not receive a favourable response from yourselves, we will not hesitate to contact and lodge formal complaints against yourselves with, The Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Services Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service, and, if the need arises, again, the courts. As a footnote, we ARE aware that the FSA made a new ruling regarding PPI on 14th January 2005. Yours sincerely. us Hows that? I know it's not perfect, but I'm hoping some nice person will come along and tweak it a bit for me so I can send it off to them tomorrow, via 1st class recorded delivery of course. Thanks again Cheapbangerplease