Urgent Plea For Help

[SweetRevenge]

Can anyone please advise what we should do about this?

 

OH and me got married in August last year - very happy thank you!

 

When we met 4 years ago he had recently separated and was divorcing previous missus.

 

Their joint account (RBS) was in mess, with an overdraft of £2,200.

They also had a loan with the same bank with approximately £5,000 left to pay.

 

Hubby needed own account, they agreed to facilitate this, but on the understanding that they would consolidate the debt (even though some of it wasn't his) into a loan for £10,558 incl interest. He doesn't remember getting a credit agreement to sign. To add insult to injury the account they opened was a Royalties Gold, costing £10 a month.

 

So his personal account (no overdraft facility) was now paying £175.98 per month into the loan account.

 

By October 04 he was paying approx £700 in total against this and other loans arising from his marriage - and then his earnings dropped £5,000. He got into severe difficulty by the end of October 2004. To try and get on top of this, he arranged a Consumer Credit Counselling Service payment plan with all his creditors and opened a parachute account with Lloyds to regain control of his outgoing payments. While this was being arranged and paid at £10 per month to pay off the overdraft and £85.97 per month to pay off the loan, the bank carried on attempting to pay standing orders into the loan from the already overdrawn Royalties Gold account. You can imagine how the charges began stacking up. Most months this totalled approximately £98 per month.

 

Early in 2005 he wrote and offered to pay each of his creditors as much as he could afford to settle his debts but this was unanimously rejected. So he continued to pay an amount each month to each account as a contribution.

 

So from charges (which were the first thing to take him overdrawn in October 2004) of £30 and all the subsequent charges, he now apparently is overdrawn £1,258.33. He has been informed of this in a letter today (first correspondence since he had statement at end of Dec 05) requesting immediate payment of full outstanding balance.

 

We thought that the CCCS had arranged for his creditors to stop adding interest to outstanding debts, but this turns out not to be the case with RBS. We had no idea this was going on.

 

Hubby is now in 2nd year of struggling small business, self employed and no proof of earnings.

 

I have sent letters requesting repayment of charges against the Royalties Gold account, but the statements they sent us in response to our SAR only go up to December 2005 so the claim must be short by several hundred pounds. We were just at the point of putting in N1s - what in God's name do we do now?

 

Please someone help.

[rory32]

You need to send RBS a letter before action informing them that they have failed to supply your SAR info. Templates here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

If they still do not comply you can then issue an N1 for non compliance, which will force them to comply through a court order. You can also claim for your time etc. as compensation when filing an N1 for non compliance of the SAR.

[SweetRevenge]

Rory, thank you so much for your reply.

 

Can you clarify - can I still do this even though the bank are saying they have stopped sending paper statements as the account is defaulted? Also I have sent preliminary letters asking for amount up to Dec 05, and LBA. They responded with an offer for charges only (no interest) which in no way covers the overdraft amount, so we rejected it. Have we gone to far for this approach?

 

God bless you for helping.

Sweet

[rory32]

can I still do this even though the bank are saying they have stopped sending paper statements as the account is defaulted?

The fact that they have defaulted the account has nothing to do with whether or not they hold records of the account. They do still hold records of the account for the entire period and are just spinning you a line in stating otherwise.

Also I have sent preliminary letters asking for amount up to Dec 05, and LBA. They responded with an offer for charges only (no interest) which in no way covers the overdraft amount, so we rejected it. Have we gone to far for this approach?

No you haven't gone too far. Once you get the rest of the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) info you can just amend your request and then send another letter before action as RBS won't pay interest before you file at court.

[SweetRevenge]

Rory, thank you that's really good news.

 

Do you think I can write and say that the RGold account is in dispute because of the request for charges?

 

Can I prevent them taking legal action they are threatening on the loan and the RGold account?

 

I am worried because the loan account (for which we haven't requested statements as there were no charges applied) is being paid at £5 per month but they are saying this is required to be paid back immediately too.

 

Sorry to pester so much.

Sweet

[rory32]

Do you think I can write and say that the RGold account is in dispute because of the request for charges?

 

Yes you can certainly do this. Here's a template

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Account in dispute

 

I am writing to clarify that I am currently in the process of requesting a refund of bank charges unlawfully made to my account.

 

I note from your latest correspondence that you are proposing taking legal action against me on this account - I need to make you fully aware that I am disputing the sum owed and, as such, you must refrain from any further action until this dispute is fully resolved.

 

If you do file a claim against me I shall enter a counterclaim based on the unlawfulness of the charges. I shall also be seeking compensation for the default placed on my credit file under the Data Protection Act 1998 as a result of these charges

Can I prevent them taking legal action they are threatening on the loan and the RGold account?

They can't take legal action on the RGold account (although they will huff and they will puff) as the account is in dispute and a judge would be less than happy with them. On the loan account even if they did take you to court the court would only award an instalment order based on what you can afford, so they wouldn't get any more than they are currently getting.

I am worried because the loan account (for which we haven't requested statements as there were no charges applied) is being paid at £5 per month but they are saying this is required to be paid back immediately too.

A judge would not award them a forthwith judgement (this is an order to pay immediately) as long as you are making payments towards the account within your ability to pay. Forthwith judgements are awarded when you are avoiding the debt, which is not the case. RBS can state all they like that the loan needs to be paid immediately, but no judge would allow them to do this and there is no legal basis for their statement.

[SweetRevenge]

Thank you so much. I am so relieved I filled up.

 

I will start with the letter you suggested and then ask for the rest of the statements. Better get my skates on if I need to be filing N1's before the OFT ruling I think.

 

In the meantime, good night, god bless.

[SweetRevenge]

Can anyone comment on whether this will be okay to send - and if it is correct please???

 

 

Section 7 - Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

 

Dear Ms Tudor

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS: Acc No. xxxxxxxxx. Sort Code xxxxx

 

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated 6 December 2006. The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

 

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges and any notes regarding manual interventions against my account number xxxxxx. The information you have sent to me is dated up to 21 Dec 2005. However, despite this account being the subject of a repayment agreement arranged through the Consumer Credit Counselling Service, it has come to my attention that interest charges have continued to accrue to this account. (See copy letter attached). This demonstrates to me that there have been further transactions on this account after 21 December 2005 and details of these are furnishable under my original Data Protection Act Information request.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have failed to comply fully with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The time for compliance with my request expired some months ago. However the missing information has only just come to my attention. Because of the lapse of time, I am willing to accept the supply of this information within 14 days from the date of this letter. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 14 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

 

Whaddyathink?

[saintly_1]

Can you edit your post as you have left your account number in ....

[rory32]

Letter's fine sweet.

[SweetRevenge]

Thanks Rory - I'll send it tomorrow.

 

And thanks Saintly - for being such a saint!!! A helpful forumbot edited it before i got there - good thing, technology, when there's women like me giving blondes a bad name innit??

 

[rory32]

A helpful forumbot edited it before i got there

I was that forumbot

[SweetRevenge]

Deserves a click - for calling you a forumbot if nothing else!!!

 

[SweetRevenge]

Has anyone else had this experience? And are the banks allowed to do it - or is it misselling or something. Surely hubby should have had to sign something along the way?

 

Their joint account (RBS) was in mess, with an overdraft of £2,200.

They also had a loan with the same bank with approximately £5,000 left to pay.

 

Hubby needed own account, they agreed to facilitate this, but on the understanding that they would consolidate the debt (even though some of it wasn't his) into a loan for £10,558 incl interest. He doesn't remember getting a credit agreement to sign. To add insult to injury the account they opened was a Royalties Gold, costing £10 a month.

 

 

Please comment if you know anything about this.

 

thank you

[rory32]

If the debt was consolidated into a loan then both parties who take out the loan have joint liability, if the loan is in both names. However in order to have joint liability both parties would also have to sign the credit agreement for it to be enforceable against them. If it is a loan and your hubby didn't sign anything then he has no liability.

[Alphageek]

I was that forumbot

 

Rory, you are one clever bit of computer programming.

[SweetRevenge]

Friendly as well isn't he?

 

Rory, thanks for that. I should have given more detail - they consolidated the outstanding debts from the Joint Account into a loan in his name only - the loan account only shows his name. Do you think we should ask to see a copy of the agreement? Do they have to produce one?

 

You are such a brick, thanks for helping.

[saintly_1]

Deserves a click - for calling you a forumbot if nothing else!!!

 

He has been called worse believe me ;-)

[SweetRevenge]

Hi Saintly, done any good deeds today??

 

I have - I waded through the winning contractual interest thread and actually believe (probably wrongly) that I understand most of the particulars of claim!!

 

Still, what I don't know will probably keep me up till two:?

[rory32]

Do you think we should ask to see a copy of the agreement? Do they have to produce one?

 

Yes I would most certainly ask for a copy of the agreement. Under the Consumer Credit Act they have to supply a copy on request. If they don't after 12 working days from receipt of the request they are in default of supplying the agreement and can not legally enforce the agreement (this means that they can not lawfully apply interest or charges to the account, nor can they ask for payment and legally any payments can be withheld by your hubby). After a further calender month if they have not supplied a copy of the agreement they commit a summary criminal offence.

 

Even if they do supply a copy of the agreement then it would need to conform with the Act to be enforceable (although most loan agreements do conform).

 

Send the template here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html templet N. Send it via recorded delivery with a one pound postal order. Do not sign the letter.

[SweetRevenge]

Heavens, you're good aren't you?

 

Why should he not sign the letter? and do you mean we should just type his name, not physically sign it? being a bit blonde again I think!!

[rory32]

Not that this may necesarily happen - but there have been allegations in the past - it is very easy to scan a signature onto a document. There is no legal requirement to sign a letter. He can either not sign it and type his name or simply print his name.

[SweetRevenge]

OMG I never thought of that! Shows how naive we can be doesn't it?

 

Having said that, (ironic chuckle here) there's been enough letters flying to the same office, lets hope they're not too organised!!

 

Anyway, we'll soon see what happens - posting tomorrow!!

 

If they did a smilie for kisses . . . I'd send you a big wet one!

 

cheers

[Alphageek]

Good luck SweetRevenge. I am sure with Rory being in receipt of kisses, he will offer sage advice

[SweetRevenge]

We sent off the letter asking for a copy of the credit agreement today, so they've got till the end of the month.

 

In the meantime, we have received the following letter today from intrum justitia credit management services:

 

Dear xxxx

Creditor RBS

Balance £xxxx

We have commenced formal debt recovery action against you to recover the outstanding balance on the above account on behalf of Royal Bank of Scotland.

 

Unless you telephone us to agree a repayment plan within 48 hours of receipt of this letter, we may either:

 

1. instruct solicitors to take legal action against you.

2. instruct our local collection agent to make a personal visit to your home address tocollect the outstanding balance.

yours etc.

 

I didn't think RBS could pass this to a debt collection agency if they know the account(s) are in dispute. Can anyone please advise on whether this is correct and what we should do now?

 

thanks