How to defend a claim (Loan RBOS)**WON** Notice of Discontinuance

[jools63]

In 2005 I took out a loan with my old bankers RBOS. My payments were £303.00 per month and I never missed a payment.

In September 2005 the RBOS decided to call in my £1500 overdraft without telling me. Not a phone call or letter nothing, I only found out by accident and this left me in a bit of a predicament.

Now like a lot of people, rightly or wrongly I did use all of the facility most of the time. My salary went in leaving me with no funds to make all of my outgoings.

I opened another account with Barclays and had my salary paid into there the following month and over the next three months I got straight with all of my creditors. I was never more than 2 months behind with anything and most of my creditors were fine with this.

As I had moved away from RBOS I still had a debt to pay them and came to an arrangement to pay £303.00 per month. This was exactly the same as my original monthly loan payment amount.

 

Things have been fine except that they ring me every 6 months to ask if I can pay anymore off and I always say no £300 is my limit. The calls are quite threatening and last time they said if I don’t come up with a lump sum then next time they will probably take my house off me.

 

On the 6th October (the next 6 monthly call) I received a call saying that my payment was late, I tried to explain that it had been sent and that it would be with them the next day or day after at the latest (which it was) it was due on the 6th but sometimes they can be up to 3 days late – that I do hold my hands up to.

The person just kept raising their voice saying it was not good enough. I ended up putting the phone down as I was so upset.

 

The next thing I receive is a letter from the RBOS solicitors saying I have to pay the amount in full approx £18k or they will take me to court.

I had numerous conversations with them saying I was sure I hadn’t missed a payment but to no avail. A County Court Claim arrived on the 8th November. I have already registered an Acknowledgement of Service as I want 28 days to prepare a defence.

 

I am present trying to find and obtain copies of all of my bank statements for at least the last 18 months as it was in March 2006 that they finally got round to issuing me a letter agreeing to the repayments of 300.00 per month.

I am 99% sure I have not missed a payment, the only possible shadow of doubt could be over this July’s as my Dad died in May, my Nan died in June, and I moved house in July – a period of extreme stress as you can imagine. I am waiting on a copy bank statement at the moment.

 

However if I count all the payments I have made from March to the current date I think it will show as 20 payments for 20 months. Their discrepancy seems to be the date the payment they say is due and the day I make the payment, sometimes this can cross over into another month.

I do not feel however that a CCJ should be issued for repayment of the full amount over what appears to be a technicality. I don’t have it anyway.

 

I gather that I should file a defence online which will then go back to them for them to decide whether to continue with the hearing or back down and go back to the payment arrangement that we agreed.

How should I file my defence do you think, just as I have here or do you have any other advice?

 

Many thanks in advance I am really worried by this.

 

 

Julia

[Curlyben]

OK for starters don't panic, help is at hand.

Fire this off to RBOS tomorrow on next day delivery.

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I have received the Court claim filed by your Company. To enable me to file a defence and counter-claim, I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. This letter supersedes the Data Protection request made to on the **DATE**. The information must be furnished by the **DATE**, which gives you ten days to provide what has been requested. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with **CREDITOR**.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

I will require this information within the next ten days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Edit as needed.

 

As this is now a court matter you are allowed access to all the documents that they will be using in court.

 

Could you please post a copy of their POC so that we can formulate a defence for you.

[hedgey06]

Hi Julia,

 

I'm so sorry to hear about the stress you're having with RBoS, especially as you've already had such a difficult year.

 

Before we can help you further, could I ask if you have any outstanding penalty charges that you haven't reclaimed from this old account please? E.g., unarranged borrowing fees, unpaid direct debits, etc.

 

Also, do you have any further details of the original loan that you took out? E.g., actual amount borrowed, secured/unsecured, no. of years you took the loan out over, the approx. amount you've already repaid.

 

Hopefully, once we have a little more info we should be able to help you further with your defence. x

[hedgey06]

Lol! Thanks CB - that's what I call quick off the mark! Thanks hun. x

[jools63]

OK for starters don't panic, help is at hand.

Fire this off to RBOS tomorrow on next day delivery.

 

Edit as needed.

 

As this is now a court matter you are allowed access to all the documents that they will be using in court.

 

Could you please post a copy of their POC so that we can formulate a defence for you.

 

Hi guys,

 

Gosh I feel better already thank you!

I have sent off the requst for information already and sent it by Special delivery so they can't say they didn't receive it.

 

The POC are;

D (me) failed to pay the sums due to C (them) when demanded and the sums that remain outstanding under the respective accounts are listed below

£22528.40

-£4342.06 (my current account in credit where I make the monthly payments)

In addition C claims interest etc etc.

 

I haven't reclaimed any penalty charges as yet for additonal fees that they may or may not have added.

The original loan was for £19,500 but although I have the agreement in front of me it's not dated. It was unsecured and with the £6005.76 at 8.3% interest the total amount came to £25,505.86. It was 84 monthly repayments of 303.64.

I can't confirm at the mo exactly how much I've paid off without knowing the start date of the agreement. I guess I shall find that out when I recive copiues of eveything from them.

If you need anything else fro me in the meantime please do let me know.

Thanks a million times over

Julia

[davefirewalker]

I shall be following this thread with interest......

 

RBS have just (sat) called in my loan as well....but I'm getting in there first

 

good luck

 

DAve

[jools63]

What reasoon have they given for calling it in?

I think it's all today with the whole UK credit issue at the moment and trying to reduce the size of their debt book.

What's going to be your next step?!

All the best

Julia

[davefirewalker]

Well I'm SERIOUSLY looking at the agreement trying to find a loophole.

 

however the PPI was misold and I had complained about it previously. So I have put the account into dispute, and am asking them for the usual CCA stuff, then I'll further delay and ask them for the DPA stuff, in the meantime I'll start with the PPI by issuing an n1.

 

Oh and Ive just found out theyve cancelled my OD as well and want it back....muppets. Well the charges on the account more than outweigh the OD itself and I have told them as much. and am in the process of iniating a claim for that tooo. yes I know all about the test case and stays etc, but it didnt stop them putting charges on did it ?

 

I'm gunning for them now

 

Dave

that should keep them busy for a while...

 

Dave

[jools63]

Hello again,

 

I just wanted to find out what should be my next step. My defence has to be in by next Wednesday the 5th. I have no response as yet from RBOS to the request for information to them and their 10 days expires tomorrow.

If I don't receive it, how should I word my defence as I clearly can't do anything without the full data?

If I do receive it I guess that is a different matter but I am inclined to think I am not going to get what I have asked for.

Can I go back to court and say I can't defend because they are not co-operating? What do you think?

I am still v stressed about this - thanks for being there!

Julia

[jools63]

Hello again,

 

Ok - I received a response from RBOS solicitors with regard to my request under Civil procedure Rules for all of my data. All they have sent me is the balance outstanding!

They then state that under the Civil Procedure Rules that they feel that I have sufficient information to decide whether to file a defence or not. Also they state "with regards to full disclosure this will be dealt with under CPR Rule 31 in due course if and when a defence is filed"

 

They're tying me up in knots and I have to get something into court by next Weds as my 28 days is up...

 

I don't know what to do next.

[Curlyben]

Oh dear.

Well we'll have to bring this to the courts attention as they should supply the requested information.

[jools63]

Thanks for the prompt reply - would you have any suggestion as to how I word my defence now to include the fact that I don't have what I need to defend myself?

The bottom line is that I totally dispute that I am in default with them but without a full disclosure I can't prove this and they won't give it to me....aaaaggghhhhhhh!

[Curlyben]

Jools, don't panic.

They are simply trying to confuse the issue here.

[jools63]

Yeah I guess they are but I can't help but panic as I have to file something with the court by next Weds...what would you suggest i say? Thanks a million

[pt2537]

Dont worry,help is at hand

 

We can come up with a defence for you to hold them until they disclose the requested documents, then we will obviously have to look at the documents,if any, they supply to see what they have

 

 

 

 

regards paul

[jools63]

Thank you very, very much to you all - what do I do next? Do I leave it with you to write something out for me?

Sorry if this seems really obvious but I am struggling with something that is way out of my area of knowledge here!

[pt2537]

Jools63

 

please dont worry, we have dealt with this type of situation many times

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/119530-what-would-you-do-5.html#post1263409

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/117579-received-county-court-claim-6.html#post1262951

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/119321-help-needed-im4347-egg-2.html#post1262389

 

theres just a couple of threads that we are helping on, so you can see that this is our area of expertise so to speak.

 

we can come up with a defence but may need to ask questions while we are going through things. so bear with us

 

regards

paul

[pt2537]

oh and please could you remove the account numbers from post 5, its not a good idea to leave them on there

 

regards

paul

[pt2537]

just a thought but, if you have a copy of the original agreement is there any chance you could post a copy of it, removing all the personal details first, it would give us a good idea of what they are likely to produce should they actually produce any thing

 

it may be that the document is unenforcable in its own right

[jools63]

Sorry you must think I'm a right worry wart! I will remove the account numbers no problem.

I have a copy of the agreement here - shall I fax it over or should I scan it and then send it as an email attachment?

Thank you for your continued patience.....

Jools

[pt2537]

Jools you can host the image in photo bucket and then post a link on here

 

that would be the easiest way,

 

regards

paul

[jools63]

Sorry you must think I'm a right worry wart! I will remove the account numbers no problem.

I have a copy of the agreement here - shall I fax it over or should I scan it and then send it as an email attachment?

Thank you for your continued patience.....

Jools

[pt2537]

In 2005 I took out a loan with my old bankers RBOS. My payments were £303.00 per month and I never missed a payment.

In September 2005 the RBOS decided to call in my £1500 overdraft without telling me. Not a phone call or letter nothing, I only found out by accident and this left me in a bit of a predicament.

Now like a lot of people, rightly or wrongly I did use all of the facility most of the time. My salary went in leaving me with no funds to make all of my outgoings.

I opened another account with Barclays and had my salary paid into there the following month and over the next three months I got straight with all of my creditors. I was never more than 2 months behind with anything and most of my creditors were fine with this.

As I had moved away from RBOS I still had a debt to pay them and came to an arrangement to pay £303.00 per month. This was exactly the same as my original monthly loan payment amount.

 

Things have been fine except that they ring me every 6 months to ask if I can pay anymore off and I always say no £300 is my limit. The calls are quite threatening and last time they said if I don’t come up with a lump sum then next time they will probably take my house off me.

 

On the 6th October (the next 6 monthly call) I received a call saying that my payment was late, I tried to explain that it had been sent and that it would be with them the next day or day after at the latest (which it was) it was due on the 6th but sometimes they can be up to 3 days late – that I do hold my hands up to.

The person just kept raising their voice saying it was not good enough. I ended up putting the phone down as I was so upset.

 

The next thing I receive is a letter from the RBOS solicitors saying I have to pay the amount in full approx £18k or they will take me to court.

I had numerous conversations with them saying I was sure I hadn’t missed a payment but to no avail. A County Court Claim arrived on the 8th November. I have already registered an Acknowledgement of Service as I want 28 days to prepare a defence.

 

 

RIGHT THEN, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT,

 

HAVE YOU RECEIVED ANYTHING WHICH STATES ITS A DEFAULT NOTICE IT SHOULD BE CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE AS A DEFAULT NOTICE AND SHOULD HAVE THE WORDS IMPORTANT-YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY ON IT ,THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT

I am present trying to find and obtain copies of all of my bank statements for at least the last 18 months as it was in March 2006 that they finally got round to issuing me a letter agreeing to the repayments of 300.00 per month.

I am 99% sure I have not missed a payment, the only possible shadow of doubt could be over this July’s as my Dad died in May, my Nan died in June, and I moved house in July – a period of extreme stress as you can imagine. I am waiting on a copy bank statement at the moment.

 

However if I count all the payments I have made from March to the current date I think it will show as 20 payments for 20 months. Their discrepancy seems to be the date the payment they say is due and the day I make the payment, sometimes this can cross over into another month.

I do not feel however that a CCJ should be issued for repayment of the full amount over what appears to be a technicality. I don’t have it anyway.

 

I gather that I should file a defence online which will then go back to them for them to decide whether to continue with the hearing or back down and go back to the payment arrangement that we agreed.

How should I file my defence do you think, just as I have here or do you have any other advice?

 

Many thanks in advance I am really worried by this.

 

 

Julia

 

...

[jools63]

Hi - thanks

 

Here's the link to the undated agreement

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/jools63/agreement2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/jools63/agreement1.jpg

 

I look forward to hearing from you - thanks

 

Jools

[Curlyben]

Jools, you need to take those down a they have your personal details clearly visible.