This will make you laugh !!!!!

[greedfighter]

I issued a claim for a refund of bank charges - filed claim - no defence submitted- defence submitted by HSBC after application for Judgement- HSBC applied for stay - stay denied and case listed for disposal hearing on 03 Oct 07 (Judges direction 'the defendants have no prospect of success whatsoever' - HSBC applied for further stay based on OFT test case - stay denied (Judges direction ' the OFT test case does not apply and has no relevance to the Claimants action). I should point out at this stage that I did not claim under the UTCCR. Instead I sued for the charges to be refunded on the basis of negligence and breach of contract by HSBC (a breach of the banking code by HSBC which I argued constituted implied terms and conditions of their terms and conditions). I have not posted the details of my argument since I am awaiting the outcome.

 

Unfortunately on 3rd Oct 07 there was a fire in the court building about an hour before my case and all cases were adjourned one month until 12 November 07. I eagerly await

 

HSBC wrote to me the day before the hearing and demanded I repay my overdraft within ten days.

 

I wrote back to them and stated that I would not consider repaying the overdraft nor was I in the position to repay until the case had been decided, consequently as they refused to settle I expected them to stay the repayment of it likewise until the outcome of the court case.

 

Heres the punchline :

 

They have kindly agreed by letter to extend the overdraft until resolution of the case, they have charged me £25.00 for reviewing the facility (debited today), this charge took me £11.00 over my overdraft limit - they have debited a further £25.00 for incurring an unauthorised overdraft also debited today and best of all they will review the facility every ten days (pointing out that they will be charging me £25.00 each time until the facility is paid off). Their explanation they appreciate my circumstances and are commited to do everything possible to help resolve my current financial difficulties !!!!!!

[Castlebest]

Ah such nice people at HSBC I'm sure thats a load off your mind have you written back thanking them and confirming the new charges will be incorporated into a new claim

 

pete

[Curlyben]

You what !!!

They owe you money, yet they are having you over a barrel.

The judge has already told them as much.

[jowalshy]

they have gone compleeeeeetly bonkers.

 

They think that they are helping you out whilst you are in "financial difficulties"???????

 

Yes your post did make me laugh, but in total dispair!!!!

[greedfighter]

I have not posted my argument because it will not be suitable for general bank charges claimants but here it is roughly :

 

I had an authorised overdraft at £1100 - I stayed within the limit and incurred no charges.In Dec 06 I was invited to upgrade to a fee paying account (£11 or something) I declined. Ten days later I received a letter informing me that they had since reviewed my overdraft facility and had reduced it to £600 five days previous to that. I was now as a result £410 over my limit and in that 5 days they had bounced 6 direct debits charging me £25.00 a time.

 

I went to the bank and they refused to acknowledge they had done anything wrong.

 

I asked them to reinstate the original limit and give me more notice or reduce it by £100 per month they refused and from that point on did not answer any further correspondence.

 

I submitted a claim to the court therefore that HSBC were in breach of contract:

 

(a) They were members of the banking code and the code was so fundamental to the reassurance of good faith and featured so prominently in their terms and conditions that there abidence by it effectively constituted implied terms or conditions.

 

(b) They failed to deal with this matter fairly or consider the circumstances positively and sympathetically as required by the banking code hence it was they who were in breach of contract.

 

© As such they were not entitled to levy any charges at all (since the charges occurred as a result of their breach of contract not mine) and that they were also not entitled to apply any charges because they did not mitigate their losses ( had they kept the £1100 limit, or given proper notice or had they reduced it gradually for which they had no reasonable grounds not to) then again the charges would not have occurred.

 

(d) Their handling of the whole situation amounted to negligence.

 

The judge so far has agreed this is a perfectly valid argument.

 

This is not a general bank charges refund claim based on the amount of the charge or the lawfulness of such charges. I have not presented any argument to say that I think the charges are unreasonable !

 

What therefore has the OFT Test Case got to do with my claim ? answer nothing!

 

They however are just genearally spewing out the OFT test case and bog standard defences relating to the lawfulness of charges.

 

I would like to reassure everybody therefore not to assume that their legal people actually know what they are doing and it is clear that they do not even bother to read claims or apparently in my case any of the documentation that has been submitted.

 

They have either clearly missed the point or are so arrogant they think they can change my point to whatever they choose it to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I will be happy to post my documents if I win since it may be of some benefit to some people but I would not want to post them at present and mislead anyone if I actually lose.

[Goldlady]

What an amazing situation. I can't believe they are continuing to charge you as well as having the audacity to continue with their defence. I hope you get compensation for the stress you have been caused by their total incompetence as well as a full refund.

 

Natwest built up nearly 1k of charges on one of my accounts a few years ago - after I was 20p short to pay a £5 dd to the RSPCA. I didn't use the account after that, just sat back and watched the charges roll in at £70 a month. Eventually they refunded the lot, but only after we finally got to speak to the organ grinder.

 

It is inconceivable that you could lose this case, but then this is the British justice system:p. Best of luck anyway.

[zootscoot]

Interesting angle. Very best of luck

[greedfighter]

Thanks Castlebest I will certainly be adding them to my claim.

[greedfighter]

Thanks, I am a little concerned now since I seem to have been fortunate enough to have the same judge deal with my case all the way through. Now however, since the adjournment because of the fire, they are going to bring in a relief judge to deal with cases that were adjourned on that day so that we do not have to wait another three months for our cases to be relisted.

 

He or she of course may have a totally different view !!!!!!!.

[Goldlady]

Unless he or she is completely incompetent or still pished from the night before I can't see how they can possibly see your situation as anything other than ridiculous. Fingers crossed for you:D

[greedfighter]

Nothing will amaze me anymore about the judicial system its just all part of a big game. whilst I am fairly confident of winning I am amazed that it has actually got to this point at all. Even if I win there is no guarantee they will cough up! They certainly won't admit they were wrong! and they have still just buggered me about for ten months in the process !.

[greedfighter]

Thanks Zootscot, it is an interesting angle but as I say it will not be suitable for general claimants. My case relates to a specific event that led to the charges starting in the first case. Based on the negligence factor I am asking for general damages and because I consider they were vindictive and unreasonable I am also asking for exemplary damages and my other losses as a result of their actions (i.e charges applied by other companies for the returned direct debits etc). I have had no indication as yet whether the judge is likely to award them.

[greedfighter]

Fortunately like you I am no longer paying any funds in to the account, just watching the charges mount up. I am sure they would like nothing more than for me to pay my salary in enabling them to take their overdraft back in one go leaving me with no money left whatsoever.

[Goldlady]

Puts you in a position of strength greedfighter. Basically they can stick their own charges up their own aspidistra.

[greedfighter]

Well Goldlady, folks I have a further cunning plan If they have not settled by Christmas. I still have my cheque guarantee card which has not been cancelled or withdrawn and I also have a brand new chequebook with 25 Cheques in. I will therefore go out and write 25 cheques for £100.00 each to different retailers for something or other, all on the same day just before Christmas, pay no further funds into the account (I have a parachute account) and then they can chase me for the money which is about the value of my claim. I shall take take great delight in the process of writing them some bog standard, uncommitted letters thanking them for bringing their concerns to my attention, assure them I am looking into and either concluding that I consider the matter has been resolved or it will take me 8 weeks to investigate their claims.

[Goldlady]

Excellent plan - I like it:D My sort of logic. Baldrick couldn't have done better.:lol:

[Castlebest]

Hiya Greed, have a look at post 213 on my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/85633-castelbest-ii-return-claims.html

 

if you use it don't put luv and kisses

 

Just a thought on the charges you have had since you put your claim to the court, to alter the claim you have will need an N244 submission and will cost you £40 (non refundable) but if you start another claim the court fee will be added to the claim and there is a chance the court will merge the claims as effectively they are the same claim.

 

 

pete

[Rayne]

£40 ??? Thought it was £35 or has it gone up now?

 

Morning btw

[Castlebest]

Morning Rayne I think its now £40 ... A new set of fees were introduced on the 1st October

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/112076-new-county-court-fees.html

 

actually some have gone down but its much more complicated now, as Michael says if its not broken why did they try and fix it?

 

pete

[Rayne]

morning??? ur late now

 

Yeah that doesn't surprise me in the slightest tbh...I'm sure the courts and banks are in it together lol

[greedfighter]

I dont think I need to make any further submissions or pay any further fees since I dont believe I need to amend my claim : In the remedy sought of my particulars of claim I stated :

 

(d) and the claimant claims any additional charges or losses incurred by the claimant up until the date of judgement or settlement whichever is the sooner.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[Castlebest]

Interesting and very clever nice one would like to see one of the legal eagles take on that

 

pete

[jansus]

Very interesting reading - and well done - like you say if they just churned out a tandard defence for a case based on different pricnciples - more fools them.

 

Watching with interest

 

Jan

[greedfighter]

Thanks Jan,

 

have now received confirmation from court that case has been re-listed for 12 November 07 - Application for stay remains denied - Courts intention remains to dispose of by way of Preliminary Hearing (Defendants further submissions have not altered the position that they have no prospect of success blah blah)

 

On that basis you would think they would just concede defeat now and pay up ! but I am sure they will take it all the way to the end.

 

I am particulary miffed since having contacted the court today they did not actually send anyone to the hearing listed for the 03 oct 07.

 

I can only conclude from this that they are well aware they have lost this one and are simply being vindictive and as obstructive as possible for the hell of it ! which is annoying me a tadge I must admit.

[Rayne]

hmmm, sounds like a case for "abuse of process" i would have thought