Moe evidence something dodgy is going on. RBS playing game so printing off as much info as poss and noticed this: My loan was listed as unsecured fixed periodic rate, their default notice states this also. Now they it is listed on my online banking as Capital plus interest? Where have I heard that before lol Hmmm:confused:

Morning brassed off Will see if I can copy and paste the relevant sections, read and interpret for yourself May be this afternoon though, sorrY!

What concerns me is your description of the way they sold you the PPI - the recommended it to you and you felt like you had to take it....is it suitable, are you actually able to claim on it (any health issues, employment issues, other policies etc). Defo send a SAR and CCA request - get all the info you can and see whats in THEIR records - many many folk find surprising differences And I still think there are many of the prescribed terms missing from your agreement. (do you remember signing the security also?) Sorry for the hundred questions, coffee overdose lol

Thank you so much Elsa & Karenruthj8 - lifesaver point! This is kind of uncharted territory for me so it's these little points I can easily hang myself with I have removed that now (phew!) Can I ask if I am right on the rescinding the contract part? I am hoping this case will highlight the procedure RBS will force you through just for lack of CCA and what can be done about it. If court is necessary then so be it

Would appreciate some guidance here CCA'd RBS, they confirmed no loan agreement. Sent a default which was wrong....sent another which is still wrong (I have told them and challenged them on it) but today they are apparently defaulting me and closing all my accounts (even earlier than the wrong date) on the default. Thing is my benefits are due to be paid in n Thurs and I cannot get them rtansferred to my parachute acc in time. Can I stop them?

Apologies for the length Formal Complaint Dear Sir/Madam, Account Number: Further to your letter dated 13th July 2009, I am unhappy that I have to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request. On 6th April I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for this account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. Your letter clearly stated that you are unable to provide this documentation and have therefore failed to comply with my request, and as such the account became unenforceable at law on 22 April 2009. Failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies. * may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. * may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * may not pass the account to a third party. * may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * may not issue a default notice related to the account – this includes your current notification of intention to file a default. Complaint Details I will outline the main points applicable in this case for the purposes of my complaint: Bank Accounts under Collections Control I am quite sure a financial organisation as large and reputable as yourselves is aware of the terms of the Consumer Credit Act and the obligations and protections contained in this Act. I am therefore confused as to why all my bank accounts are still with the Collections Dept and I am being chased for payment. I am now being forced to deal with an extremely rude, unknowlegeable and incompetent Collections Dept for simply for exercising my legal rights. The loan agreement is in dispute and should not be showing as outstanding arrears or affecting my normal daily banking. I will not accept “that is how our system works” as your systems should not be set up to contravene my rights under the Consumer Credit Act. Should these accounts not return to branch control I will take this as an attempt to punish me or treat me less favourably simply for choosing to exercise my legal right at this time. I also have a serious complaint regarding my treatment as a whole by your Collections Dept which I will be lodging a complaint and supplying full recordings of the phone call this relates to, to be investigated fully. A - Account status – under dispute or not I note that every time I ask if the bank considers this a dispute you refuse to answer, but your actions are a clear NO. Your staff have advised that your breach of my request has no bearing on the status of my account or the situation. Your advice and behaviour implies the relevant section of the Consumer Credit Act or the OFT guidance on the issue does not apply to RBS, so I ask for final clarification on the banks position on this question – Is my account in dispute or not. B - Default Process There is also the fact that you are still following the default process in these circumstances. A default is placed if I have defaulted on an agreement – since you are unable to supply an agreement you cannot claim I have defaulted on any specific contractual term. Please confirm if you think it is acceptable to place a default on an account under dispute. C - Invalid Default Notices For your information, I consider the default notices you have served and the dates you are working on to be wrong, so invalidating the notices, therefore should you terminate the agreement as you plan I believe you would be unlawfully rescinding the contract. Please note I have recordings of me informing the bank of this, and as your staff refused to listen and seemed less than interested, I have now also informed you in writing: 1 – As you posted the notice on 30th July and demand arrears by 15th July, you have not allowed time for service therefore not allowing me the 14 days required. I put you to strict proof your noticed provided the 14 days required and whether 1st or 2nd class post was used for service. 2 – You then sent a notice dated 13th July (2 days early) stating I had already failed to comply with the requirements of the default notice and demanding full payment of the principal amount. I take this as your notice that you are already terminating the account. 2 - You state the provision I have breached was agreed weekly payments without specifying an amount, yet you will note from my account £31.25 was paid monthly. 3 - You are unable to provide the agreement proving I agreed to any such term. I am extremely unhappy at having to continually point out to RBS the flaws in its own paperwork, this is not my responsibility. Should you continue your actions after receiving my challenge on the validity of these notices I reserve the right to report this to the regulatory authorities and commence court action. D - Transfer of bank accounts to CMS You have also advised that should I not ’remedy’ the default you will transfer my account to Credit Management Services and close access to my normal bank accounts which will then accept credits only. As you have not clearly stated this as an action you intend to take on the default notice – as required in Schedule 2, Section 6 of the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983, I do not believe you are entitled to take this action. Again, I will not accept “that is how our system works” as you are taking this specific action on my bank accounts upon a perceived default on my loan account and Schedule 2, Section 6 of this Act requires that your default notice details a clear unambiguous statement of your intended actions upon default. E - Data Protection Act Further to this you cannot provide proof of my signed permission to share this data with third parties, including credit reference agencies. I will point out that this loan account has never shown on my credit file, and if RBS decide now, only in the event of this perceived ‘default’ to record this account, it would be clear you are using the default procedure purely as a punishment for exercising a legal right. For avoidance of doubt I have enclosed a notice pursuant to Section 10 of the Data Protection Act with regards to the processing of this loan account data. What I require My accounts – (current account and key account) returned to branch control as I should not be forced to deal with the Collections Dept simply for exercising my legal rights. The loan agreement is in dispute and should not be affecting my normal daily banking and you have not specified this as an intended action in your default notices. Clarification finally on the question you refuse to answer: Does you consider your breach of my request for a true signed agreement for this account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8 to constitute a legal dispute on this account? Your staff advise me the account is not in dispute and I require you to clarify if my account is in dispute or not within RBS. I am aware that I am not obliged to offer any payment and there are no contractual terms or amounts you can demand, but I have stated numerous times that I have never refused to pay. In the meantime I am offering a token £1 per month to the balance until my personal circumstances improve, at which time I will review this figure. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is still a formal complaint. I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and await your rapid response. Yours faithfully

Hi all quick update. OK the 2nd default notice was sent on 30th June and stated I had to pay by 15th July (no time for service). They then sent me a letter dated 13th July stating I had already failed to comply with the default notice and demanded the full loan amount. I then get an automated message at 8:01am - phone back and the advisor has no idea why then tell me my accounts are now in the process of being sent to recoveries, there is nothing I can do about that now. I tell him they are doing it too early and he said it makes no difference, the dates don't REALLY matter. all recorded btw They will now place a default on my file, close my bank accounts and cancel my card. I will point out that this loan has never shown on my credit file so if they only put it on now n default it is clear evidence they are simply using that as a punishment. I would be most grateful for any advice/comments on the letter I have done up

Hi GerryPerry, looks like I will be following your lead next. RBS sent me a default notice which even they admitted was useless, sent another which was posted on 30th June stating a date to pay of 15th July - so not time left for service there. They then send me a letter dated the 13th July telling me I had failed to comply with the default and were demanding full loan amount and closing accounts....well wonky calendars the RBS use So, best of luck to you, any comments on mine, especially the letter I am sending (kin've uncharted territory for me lol) would be most welcome: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/207374-rbs-defaulting-me-no.html

Anyone get any copies of the securities for secured loans? Have been doing lots of learning for my mum (another fight lol) and there is some interesting reading. You are apparently able to request a copy of the document you would have signed to get the security just like a CCA request....and it must be in a prescribed form also Apologies if I am pointing out old news though!

I lost count of the number of bad words I said whilst watching this....you are right Godmother, minor breach????? And what about him telling her employer she is basically not doing her job, avoiding people on the phone...FFS! Karma is a magical thing 'Mark' Disgusted but even more determined to spread the word and fight them

Thought I would highlight this one again, any of the clever caggers out there able to take a look....surely this cannot be enforceable, there seems to be SO much missing on it!

Bit late in posting this but had a success on behalf of a friend against Liverpool Victoria for missold PPI - she got £1800 back on the last day of the 8 week deadline! Even though they were fined and promised to do these things automatically - they ain't! Details and letter used on this thread, hope its of use to someone http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/190423-liverpool-victoria-reply-advice.html Big thanks to Alanalana - Happy fighting!

Hi Flyboy A few things jump right out...the lack of information on that credit agreement is shocking....hope other caggers can confirm most of the necessary info is missing - unenforceable maybe? (not my forte I'm afraid ) The amount they are deducting from your loan account for insurance is not the amount stated on your agreement - nowhere can I see that it states on your agreement that you are paying or agree to pay interest on the PPI, yet you obviously are. And my favourite - it states at the bottom that they will keep any comission they get for selling this insurance. Oh dear...if they did and they did not explain this to you, tell you how much etc then they have boo booed big time and you have a very big case against them. There is also the 'admin fee' - you seem to be paying interest on that also - and they have not laid that out correctly on the agreement - should be another huge mistake. All in all - there are many issues to dig into here!

Subbing and wishing you good luck, not that you need it lol Am taking on Cydesdale for a mate and they have just started playing silly beggars with the DPA request...nasty letter sent, race you!

subbing as their is so much useful info here for my fights Thanks LOADS CAR2403

Hi Gerryperry, subbing with great interest. Any updates on this one yet? Good news I hope

DCA phoning DCA pmsl, lovin it

I have to ask this again as I cannot get this settled in my head - blonde as I may be but: When the CRA's take all the data they hold on me and process it, chop it up and package it and sell it as mailing lists, direct marketing tool, use it for reports, analysis etc all for a fee..........where did they get my permission for that? Surely without my permission for such activities they should not be using or selling my data for profit? There seems to be an assumed right to profit in anyway they like from the data they hold for their CRA activities, but when did they ask me if they could do that? Anyone?

And they sent a questionnaire that asked basically everything except the colour of my grannies underwear: Full financial details from the date of application, salary, outgoings, dependants, full employment circumstances, loan details, loan application details, PPI application details, recollection of events, the works! Basically asking for everything that should be in their system anyhoo. So sending letter saying not filling it in as you should have all this already, and gave answers to why it was mssold (again).

As for the DPA waffle from them, sending this: LETTER BEFORE ACTION Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998 Dear Sir/Madam Accounts: XXXXXXXX I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated 3rd July 2009. The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing. 1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges. Only a partial transaction statement for loan account no XXXXXXXX was provided from only 16/10/06 to 15/06/09 - 27 months are missing. 2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to any Insurances, including payment protection insurance i.e.: No demands & needs statement, no pertinent personal, employment or health checks relating to the suitability of the policy, no details of the insurer or underwriter, no screenshots of the application, no financial breakdown (premium, commission, insurance premium tax payable). 3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention, details of any charges or security held on my property or data communicated to third parties (credit reference agencies etc). This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing. In your letter dated 7th July 2009 you quoted Section 7, subsection 3 of the Act, stating you are not obliged to comply with any request unless you are supplied with such information as you may reasonably require to locate the information that person seeks and you will not supply any other account information unless I can quote specific account numbers. Details of my other accounts would be directly linked to the accounts already quoted as my personal loan consolidated my other accounts and they were all serviced from my bank account. Therefore I believe the details I have already provided are more than adequate for locating any previous accounts, especially in a banking institution with integrated computer systems and would be in a ‘relevant filing system’. My local branch is able to see all these accounts instantly just by inputting my bank account details. I find your assertion that you are unable to provide anything except the basic account details without further information misleading, wrong and wholly unreasonable and interpret this as a deliberate attempt to stop me from accessing the personal data relevant to my complaint against the bank. Should you insist that I have not provided enough information to locate the information I have listed as missing, please confirm this, along with your reasons and I will refer the issue to the Information Commissioner to decide. Please also confirm the name of your nominated Data Protection Officer. Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998. You have a further 26 days to comply

I did a simple google search on Clydesdale Bank mis-sold PPI and a Twitter for ClaimLine UK came up - they had a link to my thread on their 'updates' bit....I don't have a twitter. Doesn't bother me personally but just so CAG knows, I think it's a bit cheeky to use a link to your site to essentially help advertise their 'service'. Do you want the link? Actually just had a look at their sit and their T&C's and they charge 20% +VAT and £250 admin fees for various things. Not the sort of company I think anyone should consider using, and not linked to the CAG : (

Very strange, just found a link to my thread on Twitter...for some claims management company???

Oh, just to add, even though friend send a full SAR they sent only the basics for the a/c's and letter to say that she has to list EXACTLY what info she wants or they won't suppy it. That is one helluva list to typ up, they must think we won't and go away I thibk, like you Caro, they are skirting round their DPA obligations with folk

Excellent! Did they have any excuse or reason for needing the sist? When is the next hearing set for? You have backed them right into a corner, post knows it I think Andie is the next cagger in court, that one's gonna have fireworks! The result there should help you no end rrfcfan (Had the cold beer I bet on them not turning up anyway lol)

Hmm interesting. The multiple agreement angle is defo for keeping on the back burner on this one just in case - thanks for that The loan statement looked more like just a printed off transaction history of the a/c - so saying statement is probably slightly misleading, but what they told you still sounds like big fat fibs! How did you get on with that PPI, any luck? Thing is, I think that one off statement only came through because of those new regs making lenders supply statements for loans etc....but as she had literally just paid it off, it was sheer luck they sent one just then or they would NEVER have known about it! Loan was over, no further obligation to provide info! She has demanded the missing info - will update when we get it, my nose is twitching now