I've just had a very interesting offer from Credit Security Ltd (on pink paper) offering me a 35% F&F on a debt of around £8k. I have ignored every previoius letter and this just came out of the blue - they also say their next step will be a "door step agent" so I'm really really scared! Before finding CAG I would have taken this offer up (as I never managed to get anything lower accepted) - but now I interpret this as evidence they DON'T have an enforceable CCA - so I'll just wait and see what happens next. Has anyone else any experience of ignoring such a letter and what happens next? BD

Good point on charges - ALL credit card default cahrges (not just anything above £12) can be reclaimed UNLESS they prove this is the COST to them of the default - which they will never do as it's much less and they'll never admit exactly how little it is - AND also reclaim contractual interest at the SAME RATES (i.e around 2% or more per month typically - compounded monthly) as they charge on the total cumulative balance of all such charges and accumulated interest. Good luck! BD

Caro I agree - Angel should take in both I&E's - but argue forcibly that the husband's I&E is irrelevant. He is already paying ALL household bills etc. - why should ANY of his income be used to pay Angel's PERSONAL debts to any OC or DCA? A counter argument should be that some of Angel's income should go towards such household bills - thus reducing the amount available to pay monthly to any OC or DCA. BD

Tor Good letter - but I would take the 1 month limit out - just say "the funds have only be made available to me under these conditions for a very short period" . That way you can go back again later without losing face. Good luck BD

Eddie Have been watching with interest - but nothing really to add to the excellent advice given above. I would use every weapon you can use to screw both the DCA and OC. This is HARASSMENT and DECEPTION - big Time! Good luck! BD

Angel Got your pm - hope you got my reply wishing you well tomorrow? I have been in a very similar situation to your own. My business failed leaving me with loads of personal debts incurred while I tried to (foolishly) keep it going using "easy money" from a whole host of lenders - an dneve rtold my wife of the mess I was getting into to. My wife still had a good job and actually paid ALL the household bills for a few years - with ALL my money going to pay off debts. Then I discovered CCCS and later CAG - and my I&E used to get good monthly deals and then affordable F&F's ONLY showed my own income (not hers) - since my debts are only in my name - so not joint debts. Some DCA's tried to get me to disclose all the household income and expenditure but I stood my ground as my wife's credit file is squeeky clean - and her own I&E is none of their business. That said, I don't see any harm in trying to get the judge to consider ONLY your own I&E - but having a joint one ready just in case - however I really can't see how/why he would make your husband's spare cash be used to pay your OWN debts. Indeed you could argue you should be putting some of your own income towards bills HE is currently pay in in full? Hope you're feeling abit stronger now - good luck tomorrow! BD

Tor I can only tell you how my credit file looks after accepting F&F's of between 35% and 50% over the last few years. The F&F deals I have done all show on my credit file as "settled" or "satisfied" with the F&F amount paid showing as the final figure paid and the balance due as £0.00 - BUT all missed payments, defaults etc. STILL show for the next 6 years. Really up to you if you want to buy peace of mind at 50% - or push for a lower F&F? I have found it is better to say the money is coming from a family member and is limited to £x00.00 (a nice round number a bit less than the deal offered) - and is non negotiable and only available for a limited period. They usually accept it - but even if they don't, I have found they WILL still accept the eithe rthat same offer repeated - or the initial amount they wanted - a few weeks or months later - so (IMHO) nothing to lose by trying to settle for a good bit less initially. This is what I have found - but others might not have been so lucky - so up to you. Good luck! BD

CAB I think you've got them on the ropes! Go for the jugular! When they thought they would win they showed you no mercy. Now it's your turn to make THEM squirm! Surely they should be done for contempt of court - missing all these deadlines? Keep on fighting - and best of luck! BD

FDAO That's EXACTLY how they want you to feel! You're a LONG way from any of that happening. read some other related threads and then see what other ammo you can use. CPUTR 2008 is VERY powerful. Remember too it's NEVER too late to offer a 50% F&F - but it CAN be too early - like NOW is FAR TOO EARLY! EVEN IF they took you to court - and you lost - any judge will give you time to pay at monthly rates you CAN afford. You will NOT lose your house on an unsecured debt as "small" as this one! BD

They don't say how long they'll take. given they tell you to give the Bank etc. 8 weeks before going to FOS in the first place I would give FOS 8 weeks - and then get back to your MP pointing out they've had another 8 weeks on top of the X months they've taken so far. BD

I believe they must supply ALL frecords they actually hav e- even if that's over six years ago. I would look at Money Laundering Regs to see what their obligations actually are - as I think they are pretty strict. If they breach these then they can be in real trouble! Going to FOS might not get YOU anywhere - but it WILL cost THEM around £500 if you do so. BD

Don't let their tactics get to you. That's what they want! I have been getting these sort of letters since before 2005 - and no one has yet issued court papers. All letters I have got only said we MAY take Court action - none have ever said we WILL. Have you read up on PriortyOne's CPUTR 2008 thread? Some comforting reading (and good ammo) on there. BD

Steven I don't disagree - but for anyone in Scotland the situation is actually a lot better. The Claimant must aver to the Court that they have an original signed agreement before they can issue Court papers. Many DCA's will try their luck and do so anyway - but if their bluff is called they would be in seriuous trouble up here for abuse of process. Is CPUTR 2008 not the best way to flush things out after just getting a reconsituted agreement - and hopefully avoid any risk of Court action if all they can produce is a reconstituted agreement - i.e. not even a legible microfiche printout of the signed original? BD

Looks like it took them nearly 3 months to compose it - I wonder what else they've been doing with their time? Keep taking the ignoring tablets until the pains go away! BD

I did a 50% F&F with Wescott for a Lloyds TSB Visa card balance about two years ago. That was after not paying Loyds a bean fort about two years previously. I believe Wescott are in some financial trouble themselves at present? BD PS - Can anyone confirm if Credit Solutions Ltd and Credit Services Ltd are the same - or if they are totally different DCA's ? I know Credit Services and Call Serve are the same lot - but not so sure about Credit Solutions now.

I agree with what Caro and Steven say about the dangers of just fighting on this front. However it CAN be very useful as a weapon to agree a low F&F. The usual scenario quoted is a Judge saying "you've had the money - so now pay it back". I've not yet HAD to go to Court - and would NEVER volunteer to do so as a Claimant - but if forced to go as a Defendant then I would ensure I knew if I had actually paid back MORE than the amount borrowed (or balance owing) so I could counter with... "I borrowed £xxxx and have so far repaid £yyyy (where y exceeds x) - so I've actually paid back more than I borrowed. I need the agreement to confirm if I've repaid all agreed interest or not - so without it I can't answer the question of how much I might still owe - and neither can the Claimant. Just IMHO - and based on my F&F (not court) experience BD

Indi I do hope your Lawyer has ALL the facts - and is prepared to "fight dirty" to match the other side's tactics. Have you advised him of the existence of this thread - as he may well get some info you have since forgotten (or misinterpreted or misunderstood) from it? For example - WHO actually lent you the £21k - as far as I can see this have NEVER been established on this thread so far. Was it the claimant in a personal capacity - or as a sole trader - or was it the Limited Company? If the Claimant was NOT the legal entity who lent you the £21k then you would have been CORRECT to deny it - but I believe you were actually advised to do an embarrassed "neither admit nor deny" defence - pending the evidence of pazyments requested from the Claimant. WHO was YOUR employer - this might well be relevant - since if your employer was the Limited Company then it would be reasonable to assume THAT was who had lent you the money - in the absence of any proof or evidence to the contrary. What does your P60, P45 or Contract of Employment say? I have already asked such questions but have not been given any answers. Did the claimant declare the interest she believes she had "earned" from your "debt" in any period from 6 April 2009 until 5th April 2010 in her Tax Return which she would have submitted by 31 January 2011? It doesn't MATTER if this was PAID by you or not. - or even if she was ENTITLED to charge it or not. If she is CLAIMING it in court then she MUST BELIEVE she is due it - and should have declared it either as earnings or for bad debt relief. I do wish you well and would countenance you to ENSURE your Lawyer has EVERYTHING you can give him - no matter how irrelevant it may seem. It may well be this case will rest on how the Judge views the veracity or otherwise of the statements made by both sides. Good luck! BD

T Since there seems to be some doubt as to what can be claimed by them now I would not put anything more legal in it but just send the letter exactly as you have shown. They may well respond with Brandon etc. - but let's see what they do come up with. BD

SHS Excellent letter! I'll be interested to hear of any response - but I think they'll just crawl back under their stone now - and possibly try to sell it on to another sucker - Aktiv Kapital seem to be quite keen to buy unenforceable debts from my own experience! I hadn't realised Lowell and Cabot etc. were all together - must be quite a stench coming from that particular office! BD

In that case I would do another reply expressing your "confusion" - Why is the amount different from that they "inherited" from Egg? Why have they tried to charge you for their costs when they had agreed otherwise in their letter of xx/xx/201X (date). BD

Cupcake I agree with your logic - but have never had the situation you're in - so no experience to give you any advice on the costs etc. Hopefully someone with relevant knowledge or experience will drop by? Have you got all the correspondence from either Egg or BC? If so, does any of it warn about these costs mounting up? Do you also have anything in writing about each paying own costs? Good luck! BD

That's good - pity he hasn't learned how to e-mail himself - so you could have heard from him earlier - and he could have saved the public paying for his stamp and stationery! I guess the best thing now is to leave it to him - and not annoy him with further e-mails - unless he too takes too long to get it sorted out? BD

Ignore it - 25% can be given by any junior DCA at the drop off a hat. I've found that such a discount is always be available if you wanted to take it. IMHO only discounts worth up to 50% or more are worth considering. If you've got the funds you might want to counter with an offer to pay 25% F&F - but if you do so then ensure you stress the money is being made available from a family member (not your own funds) and is limited in amount to £x00.00 (a round sum which is around 25% of balance) and only available for payment in next 28 days. You might get something more worthwhile out of this - but it can often take several to and fro ing to get a good F&F agreed - as they'll want to be sure you're not bluffing and simply can't (or won't) raise enough to take up their "attractive" offer. I can let you have a copy of the letter I've used (with varied success) in the past - but it's not that different from templates either on here or MSE. BD

W I think you're doing just fine! DON'T own up to ANY better circumstances - hubby's new job etc. If you're quizzed again then just send the same I&E as got you the low payments before. After a couple of tries they'll just lie back and keep taking the £1. It's not worth their time to try for more if they see it's not going to happen. If they DO get heavy then go down the CCA, SAR, CCUPTR 2008 route etc. That way you'll flush out exactly what debts ARE enforecable - but peace of mind for £1 a month is probably worth it! I know you're probably buying as wisely as you can and I wouldn't beat yourself up about not putting more away - if you can keep up the £1 a month deals you won't need it too soon anyway for F&F's. Cutting too far back on food and treats (days out etc.) just makes you too miserable and isn't worth it. My wife has become expert at things like Morrison's BOGOF deals - and when cooking casseroles, curries etc. she makes 2-3 times as much as we need and freezes the rest - much cheaper than "ready meals". We also find Asda's 3 bottles of plonk ( normally over £7 a bottle) for £10 is a good way of keeping up the "spirits" (near oblivion for a fiver each!!!). BD

Fireprism Well done! This is most encouraging news for any CAGGER who is just tempted to give up when subjected to their bullying tactics like you were. They're totally despicable and deserve to be taken for every penny they've got - bonuses and all. Please keep us posted on your progress - and DON'T lose your nerve! BD