Crazy Diamond
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Everything posted by Crazy Diamond
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And you're saying that rather than answering it because you know very well I have a valid point, but you won't admit it. You give your opinion and state it as fact, without any evidence to back it up. I know what DHL says, it's the same as what they sent me with the invoice, the fact they try do this still doesn't make it legal. Can you see anywhere where they state that under Act of Parliament XYZ, or under the T&Cs of our agreement I have to pay this? No, neither can I. Funny that. BTW, I don't care what RM's site states, I have had to collect goods from the PO that came from the state and pay the VAT over the counter, not once have I been asked to pay an admin fee, so make of that what you will. Anyway, just running around in circles now, it's obvious no-one can answer the question of the contractual legality, which was the only thing I was after, so I'll just have to see what DHL's response is, won't I...?
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Not true, their contract is to deliver to my home address. Yes, RM expect you to go your local PO and do this, what of it? They however do not charge an admin fee, which I know as I have had to do this before. How is this relevant to how DHL conduct their business? I don't have a problem with that at all, I have a problem with companies doing something "for me" and assuming that it's ok to charge me a fee for doing it. So no, my question is not flawed, it's perfectly logical: If they turn up at my door to complete their side of the contract with the seller and ask me to pay for VAT at the door, would it still be appropriate for them to charge me a fee? I say not.
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Do you know the meaning of the word "moral"? An economic decision has nothing to do with morality, otherwise we'd have a lot more ethical business, when it seems to be anything but in most cases! But I will pay the VAT. You've not answered my question, though: Let me ask you this: if they delivered the parcel to my address as per their contractual arrangements with the seller and ask me then to pay them back the VAT on receipt of the goods, would you feel it would be reasonable for them to still charge that £5 fee? Even though all they're doing what they're paid for to do, haven't incurred additional costs?
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Courtesy? Yeah, right, pull the other one. Are you hearing yourself here? Are you really asking anyone to take you seriously when your argument is that DHL are doing this out of courtesy? Let's try this from a logical point of view, since that seems to escape you: DHL are paid to deliver the parcel to my address. If they try and say to their customers "well, we'll bring it in the UK but the customers will come and have to pick up the stuff themselves", they wouldn't stay in business very long, simple as that. So no, they're not doing it out of courtesy, but because they want to keep on making money, which is fair and good, no argument from me there. Let me ask you this: if they delivered the parcel to my address as per their contractual arrangements with the seller and ask me then to pay them back the VAT on receipt of the goods, would you feel it would be reasonable for them to still charge that £5 fee? Even though all they're doing what they're paid for to do, haven't incurred additional costs (ok, maybe pennies in lost interest if that)? See, you're the one who's not being logical here. You got on your irrelevant moral high horse and refuse to see the very basic logic that goes hand in hand with contractual obligations. That's your choice, of course.
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Nope, just refusing to be a fully paying-up fleeced member of society. I'd rather be a donkey than a sheep, thanks. I really don't see why you're taking it so personally either. If you can't answer the legal question but just spew opinions and insults then please refrain from posting on my thread, will you?
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For shame! Gloria Gaynor! Ok then. I was married to a great archaeologist and followed him to his egyptian expeditions and wrote a book about my experiences, but I am much, much more famous for my many novels, and I am according to the Guinness book of records, the greatest-selling novelist of all times. Who am I?
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Yes indeed and you should watch it if you get a chance, lol. I am what I am, and what I am needs no excuses.... ?
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Thank you for at last a response that doesn't moralise or pass judgment, but it's nothing to do with being short-changed. I do feel that a £5 charge on a £10 transaction is excessive. I do feel that it's not owed at all on the grounds that no contract exists between me and DHL. I do agree that VAT should be paid when it's due. I do also believe that DHL are already charging a lot of money for supplying their services to the *seller* and that they're chancing their arm by then trying to get another fiver to the receiver. I do think that if it came to a dispute, they would have a hard time justifying that admin fee as they'd be processing the parcel out of the fee paid by the seller in the 1st place. As I said, I'll have a word with them and let you know what pans out. Thank you.
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That's a "moral" argument, not a legal one. Again. Funny, I remember banks using the same kind of discourse to justify their charges. Do tell, isn't DHL paid - by the SELLER - to deliver it to my door anyway? So what you're saying is, a semi-automated payment that was paid as a big batch of invoices to HMRC justifies a markup of 50% as admin fee to me, without a contract agreement, and you think that's ok? Wow.
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Yes, I know that, that was never in question. See my original post? "VAT is £9.46, which is fair enough". Never said otherwise. I would however argue that a (roughly) 50% surcharge as admin fee which one only finds out about once they levy it and expect the customer to pay unquestioned is bound to hit a snag sooner or later. Well, I'll be paying the VAT (as always was the plan) and querying that charge directly. Will let you know what happens one way or another if you're interested.
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sorted, found other thread, yes shift + f5 then refresh made it reappear. Thanks.
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Hurray , it worked! (Ignore my post in the questions forum!)
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My name is Andy Dufresnes. I'm in prison for a crime I DID commit but with ulterior motives, to help my brother escape death row.
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My user CP has disappeared from the top right hand side of the screen, who's nicked it?
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Ok, I am now thoroughly confused, I have Conniff saying that DHL didn't pay VAT, Bazza saying that they did pay VAT... I did state from the start that if VAT is due then VAT will get paid and that I have no issue with that. I do however object to a company with whom I have no contract billing me for something without telling me about it and just expecting me to pay up whatever they ask. Ok, so it's only £5, what if it were £50? or £100? You may think it's all academic, but most successful cons work by siphoning small amounts where people don't bother querying it. The banks got away with small charges for years and years and people only started fighting back when the banks got too greedy and levied higher and higher charges. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask why I should pay a transport company any amount of money simply because they say so, and tbh, I am quite staggered at the attitude of people who seem to think that *I* am the one who's acting oddly by querying this!
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No idea, sorry, it's not something I do very often.
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Could you please point out which forum rules the above sentence breaches and how it amounts to "abuse"? Feel free to PM if you prefer. Thanks. Back to the main topic, as I was trying to say: You seem to be clued up about the topic, so can you break this one down for me? The letter I have in front of me states: "This is an invoice for the Duty and VAT we were required to pay on your behalf (my bold) to enable clearance of delivery of your goods. Import taxes are the responsibility of the receiver (...)" It then breaks the monies down like this: Vat: £9.46 Admin fee: £5.00 and other stuff is listed as £0. Payment due date: reimbursement of customs charges - immediate payment required. But you're saying they haven't actually paid it? So what's going on then? Are they lying and invoicing me for something they haven't paid? Now that definitely would be fishy stuff, to then add an admin fee for something they haven't actually done...? Surely that's not right?
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All this talk about guns
Crazy Diamond replied to Consumer dude's topic in The Bear Garden – for off-topic chat
Well, there's not much to reply to... he didn't own the guns, his mum did and he killed her first, what can one say to that? If his mum hadn't been shot, does anyone think she'd still be defending her right to have weapons in her home? -
Here's a conundrum... On one hand, we are told "Less than half of those people offered a recording agreed to it and more than half were not happy for a recording to take place. Less than 1% of those who agreed to a recorded assessment requested a copy" Yet in the next paragraph, we're told: "the number of requests for audio recorded assessments was higher than expected and it became evident that more recording devices would be needed." Hmmm... *strokes chin in puzzlement*
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Weather forecast for the next week...
Crazy Diamond replied to Crazy Diamond's topic in The Bear Garden – for off-topic chat
All over the world, didn't you know? -
Oh, I'm sorry, am I on the wrong forum? There used to be a time where this was precisely where we challenged assumptions that we should pay things without questioning like good little boys and girls. I haven't paid the £5, I only got the invoice yesterday, so your county court claim scenario is not going to happen, but you do inadvertently stumbled onto a valid question: Would DHL sue someone for £5 not paid? If they did, wouldn't have to provide proof that there a contract in place between them and the recipient, and that it had valid T&C? You are yet again falling in the "moralising" trap, which seems to be what every TDH do when they don't have the reply to what seems a perfectly straightforward question about contractual law. Damn right, I only want the simple answer to a simple question, if I want a lecture on the rights and wrongs I'll go ask a priest.
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online photo sharing Better safe than sorry.... oh no, wait.... :oops:
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The War on Disabled People is an Invitation to Fight Back
Crazy Diamond replied to Lady Lou's topic in Benefits and HMRC
I know, I started it, lol. -
I didn't say they had levied the VAT, I said they had levied an admin fee. Yes, I know what they do, I understand the mechanism, that's not answering my question though, is it...? Whether it's £5 or £500 is also besides the point, and I don't think it's up to them to "do me a favour" and then charge me £5 for it. That's also not what I am asking. The only question that needs answering is: do they have the legal right to invoice me for a "service" I have not asked them to provide, I have not agreed terms and haven't got a contract?
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Got myself an Android smartphone from China a few weeks ago at 1/4 the price of its branded equivalent in the UK (absolutely fab, btw, would definitely recommend it if you want the good stuff and are not brand-obsessed!). Today, got an invoice from DHL for the Duty and VAT they were required to pay customs on my behalf to enable clearance of delivery of the goods, adding import taxes are the responsibility of the receiver. VAT is £9.46, which is fair enough, and then add an admin fee of £5. Let me say straight away that it's not the amount that's the problem as such, it's the principle, also my innate curiosity on things like these. *I* don't have a contract with DHL, *I* sure as hell didn't ask then to pay anything on my behalf, where do they get off invoicing me? They paid VAT on my behalf unasked, well I'm sure that's very nice of them, but can they actually invoice me when we don't have a contract or agreed any T&Cs? As for their admin fee, what the hell? Cheek! Anyone? I did a quick google which wasn't helpful, with lots of people confusing the issue of paying VAT (which no-one is arguing needs paying) and the admin fee levied by DHL. I found a few people raising the same query as I am about the legality of the courier invoicing for an admin fee to someone who hasn't got a contract with them, and getting drowned by people with a "moral" opinion instead of a legal one, so I'll say it again, my question is purely about the *legal* aspect: Can a courier charge an admin fee to someone with whom they do not have a contract? For that matter, can they actually reclaim the VAT they paid "on behalf" of the recipient if the recipient didn't ask them to in the first place?
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