Welcome repossessed and still after the money

[allgold30]

Re: Welcome Finance

I could do with some help with Welcome too.

 

In 2003 I took a car from Welcome Finance and, to cut a long story short, I lost my job I couldn't say how long I'd had it, maybe a year, but I was made redundant and my employer wouldn't confirm it so PPI wouldn't pay out. Welcome repossessed the car and are still demanding the full balance, which has now escalated to £8500!!!

 

When I took the car I thought the application was shoddy but I desperately needed a car. I had travelled over an hour to their office and didn't have the paperwork they needed (which they had wrongly informed me on the phone) so they 'created' it themselves to get the application through. What a joke!! I have been trying to get hold of them to get copies of the agreement and ID provided so that I can look into it properly but no-one will help me. I have been writing and emailing and can't get hold of anyone who can help. I don't know what paperwork I had prior to the repo. It was such a long time ago (2004!!! and they're chasing me now!)

 

Does anyone know where I stand with this please? Can they repossess the car, in perfect condition, and still demand I pay the full balance?? Does my application still stand if they forged some of the documents??

 

Help!!

[allgold30]

Re: Welcome Finance

I could do with some help with Welcome too.

 

In 2003 I took a car from Welcome Finance and, to cut a long story short, I lost my job I couldn't say how long I'd had it, maybe a year, but I was made redundant and my employer wouldn't confirm it so PPI wouldn't pay out. !

 

 

By this I mean I had the car for maybe a year, not the job!!

[PGH7447]

send welcome a cca request then they have to cough up

[T2upNorth]

Hi again, allgold30

 

There are a couple of things here.

Firstly, fraud is, obviously, an extremely serious allegation. It's also important to be sure that you wouldn't also be implicated through collusion. Do you remember which documents(s) you say they created?

 

You also need to get hold of as much information as possible.

I would do 2 things immediately:

 

Send a CCA request recorded delivery, enclosing a postal order for £1, do not sign the letter, print your name. They will have 12+2 days to comply. If they fail to comply by sending you a legible true copy of your original agreement and a full statement they are unable to enforce or chase you.

 

Send a SAR request, again ,recorded not signed, with a £10 PO. This will, in theory get you a copy of everything they have about you, including the ID documents. They will have 40 days to comply.

 

Templates for each below:

 

***CCA***

 

Welcome Financial Services Compliance

Ruddington Fields Business Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

 

 

** *** 2009

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number *******

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

********* PRINT NAME ONLY

 

 

 

 

***SAR***

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

 

Subject Access Request

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR. - delete or add this depending on whether you are sending this to the original creditor/or a debt collection agency

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you/or name of the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account/s, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date/s they were/ it was added and deleted. (if applicable).

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account/s; specifically, the date they were/it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was/charges were calculated, and what the charge covers/charges cover.

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account/these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement/s.

10.Termination notices

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

T2

[T2upNorth]

Because you say you paid less than a year (and I assume the agreement was 48 months or more), you are unlikely to have paid more than 1/3. If that is true they can repo without a court order, although they still need to correctly serve a default notice first.

[allgold30]

Ok, great. Thank you. I'm new to all of this so if I ask daft questions just humour me!!

 

So firstly, what's a CCA?

Secondly, I'm not completely sure without seeing everything they had from me but I have a feeling it was 2 things - wage slips and there was an issue with the driving licence. Maybe this is a bit of a worry then because I know about the problems when they were doing it and so I could get into trouble for letting them do it couldn't i.

Finally, why a PO?? Could I send a cheque?

 

Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it.

[T2upNorth]

Not daft - it's a learning curve!

 

A CCA request is your right under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act to receive a true copy of the original agreement. They must supply it within 12+2 days, as long as it is outstanding after that time they cannot enforce the agreement. There is a template for you to use on my post number 4.

 

A S.A.R. is a subject Access Request. In that case you are entitled to a copy of any and all data relating to you held by a company in accordance with the Data Protection Act. Failure to supply can be reported to the Information Commissioners office. They must provide copies of information held in paper, film, microfiche or electronic form so that would include anything on their computer system, copies of documents, transcripts of calls etc.

 

A PO because it doesn't have your signature on it. Your signature is a valuable thing - especially if they can't find your original agremeent.....

 

I'm not sure of the legal implications regarding potential fraud - hopefully someone will jump in with an answer on that.

[T2upNorth]

Sorry, more questions!

 

Have they been chasing you since the repo or is this a recent development?

Who is chasing (Welcome, Lewis, Howard Cohen etc.)

Phone calls or letters or visits?

 

Don't speak to them on the phone - only in writing. Use the "no phone contact" template if necessary and only write to the compliance department in Ruddington as per the CCA template in post 4

[allgold30]

Ah thank you for that, that makes it a whole lot clearer for me. I'll get those in the post today.

 

They were chasing after the repo but I moved house and they've traced me. Ruthbridge Ltd have sent me one letter to say that they have traced me, what the balance is, and to contact them immediately or someone will visit! I have emailed them twice but no reply.

 

I am with you on the 'no phone contact' thing. I always insist on doing things in writing then I have a complete record.

[T2upNorth]

Ruthbridge - interesting - I wonder if Welcome have sold the "debt" or they acting as agents.

 

In any case, also send the CCA to Ruthbridge. I wouldn't SAR Ruthbridge yet, lets just see what they come up with.....

[T2upNorth]

As I'm sure you've read here, DCA's have as much legal power over you as a postman. ie. none.

 

If anyone does visit, tell them to sling their hook, so to speak. Also, there is a template here fully revoking their "right" to send anyone to your property and warning them of the potential consequences to them if they do. You may also want to send that to them.

[T2upNorth]

Sorry - another question!

 

Are you in England or Scotland?

Do you remember what month in 2004 the car was repo'd?

[allgold30]

Ruthbridge's letter says their name etc at the top then in the details it says Client name Direct Legal & Collections, assigned from Welcome Finance. I wonder then if they passed it on to Direct and they then passed it on to Ruthbridge?? Thanks for the advice - I'll send the CCA to them too. Plus it will put my mind at rest also if I send the visiting template to them too.

 

I'm in England. I'll be honest I don't remember when it was that they took the car. What did you have in mind?

[allgold30]

Also, where do I find the template for the 'visiting' letter please?

[T2upNorth]

Well, assuming it was repo'd in 2004, with you in England it will be due to go Statute Barred in 2010 (not long!) (If you were in Scotland, would have been 2009) - assuming you have not paid or acknowledged the debt in the intervening years.

 

To be honest - if they can produce a valid CCA I'd be surpised - lets hope!

[T2upNorth]

Doorstep letter template is here:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/590-letter-used-when-a-dca-threatens-a-doorstep-visit-

[allgold30]

And what does Statute Barred mean please? By writing these letters to them does that not mean I acknowledge the debt????? I haven't made payments since the car went though that's for sure.

 

Funny, just as I finished writing that last message I had a cold call from Benefits Claims Direct (or something like that). I got some info out of them out of interest and they say they have a 100% success rate with Welcome finance so that obviously says something for the quality of their paperwork! I wasn't however going to pay the £254 fee for the work they wanted to do for me. I must be able to do this myself and for very little money!

 

So, when the CCA arrives how would I know whether it is valid or not???

 

And thanks for the template

[T2upNorth]

Once a debt (regulated credit) has reached 6 years (5 in Scotland) since the last payment or acknowledgement it becomes statute barred - it can't be enforced by a court. They can still ask you to pay, politely, more likely they will make you fantastic never to be repeated offer to settle, either way, it's up to you if you choose to pay or not.

 

Interesting about the claims firm - maybe I'm being cynical but could it be a front to see if you have a copy of the CCA they could borrow?! Just a thought! £254 - you can definately sort this out yourself with the help of the people here.

 

As for validity - it really depends - we need to look at the entire document, assuming they actually have to send. Remember, no CCA, no debt.

 

If and when you do receive it post it back here via photobucket, first removing all identifying info like names, addresses, agreement numbers, car details, signatures etc.

[T2upNorth]

And remember - by sending the CCA request you have put the ball firmly back in their court - they must comply or game over for them

[allgold30]

Wow, didn't know about that. So if it comes to 6 years after the car was repo'd that's it, debt gone??? But will it still show on my credit report? How does it just disappear?

 

Right then, sit and wait. Letters are out there with Postman Pat as we speak and will be arriving on their doorstep first thing in the morning. Happy days. After all these years of worrying about it I'm going to take great pleasure in watching them squirm now

[allgold30]

Hi again, allgold30

 

Send a CCA request recorded delivery, enclosing a postal order for £1, do not sign the letter, print your name. They will have 12+2 days to comply. If they fail to comply by sending you a legible true copy of your original agreement and a full statement they are unable to enforce or chase you.

 

Send a SAR request, again ,recorded not signed, with a £10 PO. This will, in theory get you a copy of everything they have about you, including the ID documents. They will have 40 days to comply.

 

Is this working days or actual days? For example 14 working days would be almost 3 weeks whereas actual days would make it 2 weeks. Does that make sense?

[T2upNorth]

Essentially, yes. There are situations where that wouldn't be the case though.

Have you checked your credit report? There should be a default from 2004 when they served the default notice prior to repo'ing the car. A default marker will fall off your record after 6 years naturally. There should only be one default - worth checking in case they've decided to muddy your record.

 

Trust me they are squirming - more than they could ever imagine!

 

Being looking at Direct Legal & Collections. They are involved in car repo amongst other stuff. Obviously, whatever was made on the sale of your car should have been deducted from the o/s finance to get to them amount they are claiming.

[T2upNorth]

12 working days, plus 2 for postage

[allgold30]

Well that's very telling. I remember the total repayments to be somewhere around £8k and I was making regular payments for quite some time so I am assuming these have not been deducted. The car would have fetched at least a grand or 2 at worst so that clearly hasn't been deducted either. I'm looking forward to seeing the statements of my account!!! I won't be settling for any charges either - that and PPI will be tackled once this one's over.

 

Secondly, there is something strange going on here. The credit report shows just one entry for them under the name of Hillsden Securities and says agreement started 19/02/03 but defaulted on 01/03/06!!! That's never right - I didn't drive that car for 3 years!

[allgold30]

ARRRRGGGHHHHH AND ANOTHER THING....

 

I have just realised that they took my old car as deposit and I don't remember ever seeing that on the paperwork.

 

Have to write it down here or I'll forget to check when (if!!!) I get all the paperwork through.