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    • An update to this case as I’ve not been on in a while.    I am still awaiting a charging decision in the case. The two police officers involved have said their personal belief is a section 47 ABH charge is the most likely outcome but this isn’t a sure thing of course.    The EA certificate from the issuing court has now lapsed. The court have refused to recertify him until they’ve had a hearing in to the case, and the district judge has issued orders to surrender all evidence, footage, photos etc.    I have done so promptly.    the EA, not so much . Equita have claimed they cannot provide his bodycam footage as the camera he was wearing is the EA personal one not one of theirs.   the EA has claimed he has asked Equita and the police for the footage as he claims he doesn’t have it.    the police have confirmed they didn’t seize his camera and they don’t have it.    so they are basically pointing the finger at each other all the while failing to comply with the district judges order to provide all evidence they intend to rely on at the rescheduled hearing.    The district judge has stated the hearing for his certification will NOT be the hearing for my complaint as there is no charge as of yet, and just as to whether he should be recertified or not.    I’m not 100% on why that can’t be done at the time, but I’m not about to question a judge…..      
    • Thanks FTMDave, I like the cut of your jib - I'll go with that and obtain proof of postage. Encouraging that NPE have never followed through and seem to blowing hot air, let's see where they go after this   Regards
    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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RBS(initial letter delivered)


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Hello everyone, I took great pleasure today delivering my opening letter to my branch of the rbs asking them to return over 3 grand which they've squeezed out of me and the mrs over the last 6 years.I've got a couple of things i'm not too sure about, firstly the claim relates to two acounts ,one is my sole account and the other is my joint account with the wife,both of which are held at the same branch,i'm wondering if there are any legal issues in the fact that i will effectivley be partly claiming on her behalf???? The other thing is that they had a few grand off us a couple of years back for a mortgage redemption penalty which we didn't know existed intill we tryed to get a new deal off them, the woman who sold us the mortgage told us mistakenly that there was no tie in and we nievely signed up without reading the smallprint(lesson learned)!! I tryed to argue the toss but got nowhere,eventually took a good will gesture of 300 quid as i was getting nowhere and didn't feel i had a leg to stand on as i'd signed on the dotted line.The point of all this is that im considering using the bankcharges issue as leverage to recoup the redemption penalty aswell,i.e. if they offer me a deal relating to the bank charges only accept it if they agree to refund the redemption charge aswell,and if they don't agree,carry it through to court.my logic behind this is that it dosn't matter to them wether its 2 grand or 20 grand they just want to avoid going into court and having to justify their charges ect.I'd be interested to hear wether this sounds like a feasable coarse of action or not and if so how i should go about it i.e when to inform them of my intentions as i havn't done so in my opening letter, cheers,mick

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Hello everyone, I took great pleasure today delivering my opening letter to my branch of the rbs asking them to return over 3 grand which they've squeezed out of me and the mrs over the last 6 years.

 

I've got a couple of things i'm not too sure about, firstly the claim relates to two acounts ,one is my sole account and the other is my joint account with the wife,both of which are held at the same branch.

i'm wondering if there are any legal issues in the fact that i will effectivley be partly claiming on her behalf????

 

The other thing is that they had a few grand off us a couple of years back for a mortgage redemption penalty which we didn't know existed intill we tryed to get a new deal off them, the woman who sold us the mortgage told us mistakenly that there was no tie in and we nievely signed up without reading the smallprint(lesson learned)!!

I tryed to argue the toss but got nowhere,eventually took a good will gesture of 300 quid as i was getting nowhere and didn't feel i had a leg to stand on as i'd signed on the dotted line.

 

The point of all this is that im considering using the bankcharges issue as leverage to recoup the redemption penalty aswell,i.e. if they offer me a deal relating to the bank charges only accept it if they agree to refund the redemption charge aswell,and if they don't agree,carry it through to court.my logic behind this is that it dosn't matter to them wether its 2 grand or 20 grand they just want to avoid going into court and having to justify their charges ect.

 

I'd be interested to hear wether this sounds like a feasable coarse of action or not and if so how i should go about it i.e when to inform them of my intentions as i havn't done so in my opening letter,

 

cheers,

 

mick

 

I'm sorry to do this to you but don't you think that using a bit of spacing in your post makes it much easier to read?

We have to cope with a lot of material each day and huge blocks of text at least double the time needed to deal wth it.

 

*************************************************

 

I'm afraid that if you signed for the £300, then that is probably it for the moment unless youhave definite evidnce that you have been mislead. You could challenge it but it will get complicated and could even cost you if you went to court. This is assuming that you accepted the £300 in full settlement.

The fact that there are two accounts is not a porblem. Your joint account with your wife makes you jointly and severally liable and either of you could sue on the account.

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appologies for the lack of spacing in my 1st post ,it won't happen again.

 

thanks for your help with those points,i'll have to do abit more research with regards to the mortgage angle to find out exactly what i did sign.

 

I got my first response from my branch this morning which is a pamphet titled "charges and rates of interest" Along with a compliments slip with nothing on it!! I dont think they've taken it too well!! I think i'll notify their head office that i've lodged a claim then just sit tight and start the ball rolling after 14 days,thanks again, mick

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got the standard "sorry your not happy,we'll look into it " letter a week or so ago followed a few days later with another predictable one stating that they see their charges as fair and transparent - blah blah blah and that they are not prepared to repay any charges.

 

i need a bit of help with filling out the court form as i'm not sure wether to put the the branch address or maybe a regional office???? i've got a rbs address from this site for telford ,not sure if thats the one to put down?? can anyone advise please.

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Mungo,

 

I was in a similar situation to you as I had a joint and sole account with the RBS.

I managed to reclaim £800.

Like you, I got the standard letter trying to justify the charges.

As soon as I replied and gave them 7 days to repay, or would take court action, they refunded me in full.

However, they still insisted that by doing so that they were only doing it as a "goodwill gesture"(!) :roll:

 

Have you tried the 7 day deadline with them?

 

Buzz.

 

p.s. I rang the bank first and got the name of the manager then addressed the letters directly to her. The first reply came from her, but the offer of repayment came from their head office.

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cheers Buzz,

i addressed my initial letter to the branch manager and she just passed it to the branch ''service quality'' manager.

I'm thinking that as i gave them 14 days notice i should just go ahead with the claim as thats now expired.

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Yes of course

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I'm really sorry but i'm a tad confused

 

I've sent the consumer version what i thought was the opening letter basically saying that i'm not happy,asking for the charges to be refunded and giving 14 days notice for action.

 

Iv'e had another look in the libary and seen another letter headed something like 'prelimary approach' which is similar but asks for the bank to enter into dialogue ect.

 

In my last reply from the bank they have said that they stand by their charges but if their are any particular charges that i dispute they would be happy to discuss them.

Iwant to go straight ahead with the claim now but what concerns me is that i'll get to court to be told that i didn't go through the correct pre action protocol?????????

 

Obviously i really want to get going with this but i want to get it right appologies if i seem to be going over old ground,

cheers

mick

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We suggest the use of a two stage approach to show that we are acting reasonably and aren't simply bulldozing the bank into court. This means that you send the preliminary approach letter. After 14 days you send the LBA and then you put in the claim.

 

Of course, there has been no instance so far where the bank has entered onto a porper dialogue or done anything to try and avoid these steps occurring.

However, we still think that it looks better of we act reasonable even in the face of intransigent attitudes.

If you want to skip these steps or any of them then go ahead. It probably won't cause too much of a problem but it is not the aproach which we recommend.

That's all.

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Cheers bankfodder,

sorry to be a pain in the arse over this ,taking on board what you've said i think i'll send them another letter asking them to justify their charges and give them a further 14 days before action,i just didn't want to seem as though i was wasn't serious as i'd already given them a deadline but at the same time i appreciate that i've got to follow the correct procedure

 

thanks again

mick

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Mungo, are you in Scotland or England? If you're in Scotland you won't be able to claim £3000 through small claims (at least, not in one go).

 

Also, your point about claiming on behalf of your wife might be a problem. Unbelievable as it may seem, the Scottish courts operate one of the last 'closed shops' in Europe (along with The Showman's Guild!). This means that only members of either the Law Society Of Scotland or The Faculty Of Advocates can represent other people in court. I actually saw a case get tossed on these grounds once when a guy tried to represent his Dad (who looked to be about 150) against a big furniture company that had ripped him off. The poor old guy could hardly stand up, let alone represent himself in court. His son was absolutely furious and told the Sheriff, lawyers etc exactly what he thought of them. The Sheriff was actually quite apologetic about it, but the law is the law...

Robertxc v. Abbey - £3300 Settled in full

Robertxc v. Clydesdale - £750 Settled in full

Nationwide v. Robertxc - £2000 overdraft wiped out, Default removed by order of the sheriff

Robertxc v. Style Card - Default removed by order of the sheriff

Robertxc v. Abbey (1) - Data Protection Act action. £750 compensation

Robertxc v. Abbey (2) - Data Protection Act action. £2000 compensation, default removed

 

The opinions on this post are those of Robertxc and not necessarily the opinions of the group and do not constitute sound legal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice.

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Scottish courts operate one of the last 'closed shops' in Europe (along with The Showman's Guild!).
and France. The land of Liberte and the closed shop
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  • 1 month later...

Hello all,

heres an update on my situation-

I sent the letter before action giving 14 days notice of legal procedings in march and heard nothing back until a couple days after the deadline when i got a letter from the grand fromage of the customer relations dept.the letter just went over old ground about charges being fair ect and taking it up with the FOS if i'm not happy, but no mention of of legal proceedings which i find curious?

 

I issued the claim on 5th april,it was served on 11th,on the 19th they filed an acknowledgement. on the 10th(yesterday) i got the particulars of the defence through from their solicitors(cobbetts) who are based in manchester,i'm wondering if thats a ploy so they can get court switched to manchester in an attempt put me off ??

 

I'll try to summarise the main points of their defence-

 

they seem to be suggesting that i havn't 'propery particularised' my claim and that if i fail to do so will apply to strike out my claim or for summary judgement.in resect of this they are inviting the court to hold a case management conference so i can get my act together,how considerate of them!

 

They're trying to get an angle on the fact that one of my accounts is a joint account with the wife, i can't really see that being a problem as she'll come to court with me if need be.

 

and lastly they're asking me to identify the the sections of the ucta act 1977 and the uctcr 1999,can't see that being too much of a problem either.

 

So here we go,i'll keep you posted on any developments

mick

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  • 12 years later...

This topic was closed on 03/06/19.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support their.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

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