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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Log book nightmare Mobile Money


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Hi Guys,

 

Im new to the forum and was looking for some advice.

 

I foolishly took out a log book loan out on my car in May 2014 with Mobile Money.

The original amount was for £2800 with a monthly payment of £358.

 

 

I ran into problems health wise and I lost my job..

.I made a series of payment arrangements with them

but still found the payments hard to keep up and I got into arrears,

 

 

A default notice was issued for £2200 in arrears

but I couldn't afford it and they wouldn't let me pay a smaller amount it had to be in full or theyd repossess my car,

 

 

I have in total paid them over £9000 and they still say I owe them £1300 on top of the arrears.

 

 

They have repossesd my car and to get it back I have to pay them the full £2200 for the arrears plus repo fees and then I still have another £1200 to clear the loan.

Is there anything I can do?

 

 

thanks in advance

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Loan was for £2800, with a monthly payment of £358?

How many months?

 

The fact that you have paid close to 4 times that is terrible. Let me know lets see what we can do..

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Loan was for £2800, with a monthly payment of £358?

How many months?

 

The fact that you have paid close to 4 times that is terrible. Let me know lets see what we can do..

 

36 months ...... I fell into arrears a couple of times and the debt kept mounting up..... they've taken my car now and have said they'll auction it off and Ithen will set up a payment plan for me to pay off the rest coz my car isn't worth more than 500

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Sorry to ask Im not very clued up on all these matters.

 

 

What would I say in my complaint?

That I think they have charged me unfairly?

That the amount paid is almost 4 times the amount if the initial amount lent?

 

 

I'm not sure how I'd word this.

...any pointers appreciated x

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if they've been charging arrears fees and at their interest too

that's unlawful and they had no legal authority to repo the car.

 

 

if you've paid more than 1/3rd of the original payments then that repo is unlawful and so is the repo fee too anyway.

 

 

go demand your car back.

 

 

did you sign a bill of sale?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?452164-Log-Book-Loan-Guidance&p=4791345#post4791345

from my notes. [prob same as above!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

logbook loan repossessions are not always legal,

.

if linked to a CCA agreement or if the BOS has not been registered with the high court.

.

If BOS registered then yes they can reposses,

but have to show registration and debt details.

Registration

A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered.

Since this is an expensive and difficult process,

it is rare that this actually happens.

However, failure to register the bill of sale renders it void,

and so renders any security on goods void.

.

Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods,

ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.

.

You can also call the national debt line, and ask them how to search the registry yourself.

.

Also a valid DN must be issued.

.

If linked to a CCA then can not reposses if on private property without a court order

( but can if on public road and under a third has only been paid ).

.

Over a third, they need a court order wherever it is.

.

check for...[bOS]

.

Not Registered With The High Court In 7 Days

not registered AT ALL!

.

Credit Agreement Details Not On The Bill Of Sale

You should also check that the name on the registration documents

matches the name of the person who signed the BOS

On occasions these cars get sold on several times

.

how to check:

.

email:[email protected] ov.uk.[no spaces]

.

ring:020 7947 7772

.

write:

QB Enforcement Section,

Room E15-E17,

Royal Courts of Justice,

Strand, London, WC2A

...

.

ideally you need the BOS number

.

however

they can search by the Reg Number

.

...............

also see:

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-types/consumer-credit/consumer-credit-research/logbook-loans

.....

Do you have a problem with a Logbook Loan?

With Citizens advice estimating that over 60,000 of these loans were taken out in 2014 alone

an increasing number a causing severe difficulty and distress for borrowers.

.

In this guide we explain what a logbook loan is, and how they work.

What you can do if you have a repayment problem,

and what you can do if you have unknowingly bought a car with a logbook loan attached.

.

Three golden rules for Logbbok Loans

.

1)No matter how desperate you are to purchase a car, or raise cash,

NEVER consider this type of Finance

These loans are designed purely for the benefit of the lenders.

With APRs of 400+%, little consumer protection, and aggressive debt collectionicon practices

they should be avoided at all costs.

.

2)When purchasing a used car from whatever source,private or trade,

ALWAYS do a FULL GENUINE HPI CHECK costing around £20,

these come with a guarantee against any form of existing finance, including lbl's

.

3)If you have any problem with a Logbook Loan,

your first step is ALWAYS to check that the Bill Of Sale has been registered

with the High Court. You can do this here-

.

to check if registered

.

Contact Details

.

QB Enforcement Section

Room E15-17

Royal Courts of Justice

Strand

London

WC2A 2LL

DX 44450 Strand

.

Telephone: 020 7947 7772

Fax: 0870 324 0024

Email: [email protected] ov.uk

.

You may read on the internet that your BOSicon will be void if witnessed by your lbl lender

.

Since the OFT( as was) lost the attestation case on appeal by 2 to1 this is NOT the case

.

full details here http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean

.

Logbook loans are a form of credit dating back to the Victorian era,

derived from the 1878/1882 Bills Of Sale Acts, with terms and conditions to match in many cases.

.

Problems are many fold from extortionate charges by lenders for calling a customer,

to repossessions where owners have been left at the side of a busy road,

unable to get to work, and even sexual harassment via debt collection.

.

Poor practices abound, unsurprising when there is no incentive for lenders

to ensure their customers understand the terms or can afford the repayments.

In fact the very nature of this form of finance could be seen to encourage bad behaviour

– why carry out affordability checks if a single missed payments means you get to keep

the money and takeaway the car?

.

.

How does it work?

.

When you take out a logbook loan you will be asked to hand over your vehicle’s logbook

or vehicle registration document, which proves you are the registered keeper of the vehicle.

.

You’ll also have to sign a credit agreement and a form called a ‘bill of sale’.

This means the lender now owns your vehicle on a temporary basis

but you are still able to use it so long as you meet all loan repayments.

.

These documents are recognised by law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

but are not used in Scotland.

.

The law only recognises a bill of sale if the lender registers it with the High Court.

If it’s not registered, the lender must get a court’s approval to repossess your vehicle.

.

You should check if the bill of sale is registered.

.

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

.

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

.

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

.

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

.

You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the dn

.

look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

.

What you can do if you have purchased a car with an existing logbook loan

.

If you receive a letter threatening to repossess the car or an enforcement officer

turns up at your home to take it, you may not be able to stop them.

.

•ask to see proof of their identity and their authorisation to take the car

•ask to see the bill of sale document – they have to show you this if you ask for it

•if you feel threatened by how an enforcement officer is behaving, call the polic

•ask for written confirmation of what has been taken

•get the contact details for the logbook loan company.

.

If the lender has taken your car, you can try to get it back

and reclaim your money from the seller.

However, this can be a costly and time-consuming process and is not guaranteed to succeed.

.

If you want to get the car back, you could pay off the outstanding loan

and then take the person who sold you the car to court, to try to get your money back.

.

If you just want to get your money back, you can take the person who sold you the car to court.

Always get independent advice before you decide to take someone to court.

.

Some lenders are members of the consumer credit Trade Association (CCTA),

which has a code of practice covering logbook loans.

The code of practice says the lender must register the logbook loan on a register,

so it will show up when you carry out a history check on the car.

It also says they must obey certain rules when they repossess a car.

.

If you are unhappy with the way a logbook loan lender or its enforcement officers have behaved,

find out whether they are a member. If so, you can complain directly to the CCTA.

However this code is regularly ignored

.

http://www.ccta.co.uk/content/our-code.aspx

.

Finally both the Financial Conduct Authority and the Law Commission are investigating

Logbook Lending and the associated legislation,

full details here--

.

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-typ.../logbook-loans

.

http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...ls-of-sale.htm

.

for anyones info, you must act immediately on receipt of a default notice

.

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

.

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

.

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

.

You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the default notice look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

.

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

Bills of Sale Act does not apply in Scotland,

just to reassure you from the Money Advice Service *Taking out a logbook loan in Scotland*

In Scotland, ‘bills of sale’ cannot be used as security and are not legally binding.

Lenders in Scotland are therefore likely to be operating under different credit arrangements.

If the logbook loan is a ‘hire-purchase agreement’ or a ‘conditional sale’, your consumer rights and protection under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 will apply.

.

worth a read

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472038-ACF-THe-funding-Corp-illegal-repo-now-DCA-Chasing-loan&p=4972172#post4972172

 

.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

let us know what fits your situation and where the car was when repo'd and what previous letters they've sent

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Full SAR to the OC, have a good read of the CCTA Logbook Loan Code of practice

Then written Formal Complaint time

Then the FOS if you get rejected

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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