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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hi all on the forum,

I came back to forum for some inspiration and guidance.

I go through all kinds of emotions when I read the heartbreaking stories that other people share with us the emotions range from sadness at one end and pure anger and rage at the other we all live in the 21st century and yet when I read what happens to other people all I can say is I am left with a sense of sadness for the future of the human race!

what kind of animals are we when we can inflict such levels of pain hurt and hardship on our fellow humans has the world gone mad for the sake of money?

what has happened to justice in our court system?

why are we all to scared to speak out and change what is rotting in our society?

I went to court yesterday to stop a dca called link financial getting a charging order on my house the pain and worry and sleepless nights are beginning to take a toll on my well being and for what,

So some greedy B******s can try and force me to pay money that I just do not have!

And all this with the law on their side.

Come people wake up what is the problem here?

If we all work together to change the law and see these people end up where they belong surely it cant be that hard.

while writing this plea for help this thought has come in to my head and will not go away I would like to share it with you all

"Alone we are but a single grain of sand but together we can hold back the oceans!"

So come people what are we waiting for?

the forces of darkness hide behind fear and intimidation to survive but only if we the people let them get away with it?

So cant we all get together and stand up to these evil people......"come on just how hard can it be to get together and change the law for the good of us all!"

Flaminscoty...XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

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  • 2 months later...
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I recently complained in writing to Lowell saying that I was also going to complain to the OFT, and guess what? They've stopped sending harassing letters.

 

i've never heard of someone stopping DCA's sending letters.:eek:

could i do this?

 

i have chronic severe depression with psychotic features, panic attacks, eating disorder, social anxiety and sometimes insomnia.

i am a self-harmer, but i'm currently trying to quit, so i haven't hurt myself in a while.

there has been many times when i've been suicidal, mostly due to money/debt worries.

the whole debt issue is made harder because i live on income support. i've been signed unfit to work for years due to my mental health problems.

 

i worry my parents [esp' my dad] will at some point open a letter about my debts. :{

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Write a concise letter outlining your conditions and mentioning OFT guidlines and CSA code of practice in relation to the treatment of vulnerable people, post it up here for someone to check, then send it to the relevant DCAs/OCs.

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  • 1 month later...
Write a concise letter outlining your conditions and mentioning OFT guidlines and CSA code of practice in relation to the treatment of vulnerable people, post it up here for someone to check, then send it to the relevant DCAs/OCs.

 

could that really stop the letters to my house?

sury they wont stop while they still want money.

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OFT guidlines, the CPUTR 2008 and the CSA code of practice all have strict guidlines that must be followed when dealing with sick and/or vulnerable people. If they do not do this and continue to send stupid harassing letters, complain, LOUDLY :)

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  • 3 months later...

Deppression first, feeling helpless about how unfair the law is and can do nothing about it, fear of looseing everything. Because so upset, ended up having a bad accident due to lack of concentration, now am unable at the moment to work, was self employed and my liability insurance in the small print does not cover me for own injury. I had done nothing wrong and all of a sudden my life was falling apart. I have good days and bad days, anxsious, keep getting diahreah and ill, headaches and not wanting to do much. Thoughts of how can I go on, fear this will never be over, panic attacks, angry that this is so unfair and there is nothing I can do about it. Frustrated that the government people I wrote to about this have not even bothered responding. Upset I have had an accident because I could not concentrate because of this unjustice. Not understanding how this could of happened to me, confussed alot of the time and not remembering to do the things I should be doing. Frightened of the next thing that will happen. Before this I was a very confident person who has dealt with alot of stress in my life, had got down after going through some very bad situations, but had got myself back feeling good, I hold on to the fact that there is a light at the end of evey tunnel, but it is hard when my head wont stop thinking the situation over and over and over again. because it is still ongoing.

One thing which keeps me going is to think if the law can be changed, then my suffering would not have been in vain, I do hope the law will change and innocent people like myself will not have to unnessesarily suffer.

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I have had debt problems really for the last 20 years but always managed to avert what I always called 'Tragdy', what this meant was robbing peter to pay paul and when that was sufficient borrowing more money to stave off all the bills and to keep going. Looking back I was utterly depressed then, but didnt acknowledge it, I just kept going beleiving that somehow a miricle would happen and all would be right. How wrong I was, back then you see there were no web sites like this as I remember there was no computers, so I only had myself to blame, worry, pick myself up and then worry again, sleeping tablets, this became a routine for me for many years. I couldnt talk to my husband, he had his own worries keeping a job that the governement was determind to take away from him. He was a miner and had been for 30 years, in 1990 he turned up for work on the morning shift, to be told at 10.00am that morning that he was no longer required. Yes he got his lump sum which a lot of the public out there stated that the payouts were over the top. But let me tell you it does not cover life when there are no jobs to move into, in fact it took 18 long months to get him back into work, then he was working for £2.50 per hour, 60 hour weeks as a security guard, plus he was travelling 50 miles each way to work, it doesnt take Eienstein to work out that most of his wages were being taken up by petrol costs.

 

Well the final blow came 2003, I coudnt keep going any longer, no more creditors would lend. I by that time had updated my qualifications as I new also that I would soom be made redundant, so I thought I planned ok and in plenty of time to carry on paying the bills, the creditors and hopefully get a better job. I pushed myself mentally and physically, working full time, running a home, taking care of our children and supporting my husband who by this time had , had a nervous breakdown, and was in and out of the local pyschiactic unit at the local hosptial, and doing a part time MBA at the local univeristy. For 3 years this was my life, pushing my own fears and depression, to the back just to keep going and keep my family together.

 

2003 was when I signed up to a debt management program with a very well known Company, over the next 5 years I paid £65.987 back to my creditors, yes I get a better paid job, my MBA definatlly helped with that, I was working in London and commuting everyday. I spent 35 hours a week on the motorway travelling to and from work, 2008 came after what seemed like a thousand default letters, Phone call threats I couldnt even list, the final blow came with a CCJ from Lloyds TSB for a sum I had no knowledge of owing, £37,000, I turned up to court, asking for a breakdown of the figures, as I honestly didnt know where this figure had come from. The judge agreed with me and Lloyds TSB were given a fortnight to provide the information, well when it came I new something was wrong, it was not a proper statement, I couldnt make heads ot tails of the figures. I then went to see a solicitor as the judge had advised me to do, well 1st hour free, 2nd hour £175 later, the solicitor informed me that they couldnt make heads or tails of the bank fodder, that it would need forensic analysis by a qualified accountant, which would cost another £600-700 pounds. Well I just gave up, I couldnt go on any further. My job disapered right in front of my eyes due to downsizing of the firm, I had recieved a dreaded CCJ, last count 32 default letters, some of them double for the same debt. I couldnt keep affording the payments to the debt management company, so yes I did the most awful thing of all, the central reservation of the M1 was the answer to my prayers. God must have had some ulterior motive for my stupidity, anyway I am here to tell my tail. I am now in an IVA, I am pain riddled, on anti depressants, sleeping tablets. Have had two years of regular psychological intervention, I lock myself away from the world when I dont have to go out. I dont speak to anyone from the past, and I have no one to talk to in my present or in my future.

 

I feel extremely bitter, frightened, stupid, alone, even the light at the end of the tunnel with the IVA is a hollow triumph as we are still paying off our joint debts through a debt managment company again as my husband cant get an IVA as he is now retired and extremly disabled.:!:

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  • 8 months later...
Write a concise letter outlining your conditions and mentioning OFT guidlines and CSA code of practice in relation to the treatment of vulnerable people, post it up here for someone to check, then send it to the relevant DCAs/OCs.

 

would i need my GP [or another medical profesional] to write or sign this?

i don't suppose there's a letter template for this kind of letter?

i guess a link to the OFT guidelines and CSA code of practice of vuinerable people would be enough to help me.

you can PM me if that's easier.

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  • 1 month later...

All these stories have a common thread running through them: people being lent too much money by greedy banks and then being harassed and bullied by their lenders when, quelle surprise, they can’t afford to pay it back!

I’m hopelessly in debt and it makes me so angry. For too long I’ve endured sleepless nights and months of depression worrying about it all. It affected my relationship with my girlfriend and we nearly split up because of my money problems. Now I can see clearly and I’ve basically resolved to go bankrupt because I know that in a few months I’ll be debt free. I already feel better just knowing I’m going to be free again. I have just finished reading the bankruptcy diaries, an amazing book that had me punching the air as the guy socked it to the banks.

Regulus is right when he says in his post that the worst that can happen is that you lose a few possessions so you shouldn’t let debt ruin your life; they can take everything I own for all I care.

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All these stories have a common thread running through them: people being lent too much money by greedy banks and then being harassed and bullied by their lenders when, quelle surprise, they can’t afford to pay it back!

I’m hopelessly in debt and it makes me so angry. For too long I’ve endured sleepless nights and months of depression worrying about it all. It affected my relationship with my girlfriend and we nearly split up because of my money problems. Now I can see clearly and I’ve basically resolved to go bankrupt because I know that in a few months I’ll be debt free. I already feel better just knowing I’m going to be free again. I have just finished reading the bankruptcy diaries, an amazing book that had me punching the air as the guy socked it to the banks.

Regulus is right when he says in his post that the worst that can happen is that you lose a few possessions so you shouldn’t let debt ruin your life; they can take everything I own for all I care.

 

Have a look around because various companies and charities may be able to help with your BR fees :)

 

Good luck, I did it four years ago and boy, what a feeling when the judge signs on the dotted line :)

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