'Debt clear recoveries /MBNA - Quiet for now...

[Preyin Graham]

Hi there, I introduced myself in the 'hello' forum and have been looking around for similar cases.

 

I received a call from a Police Officer sounding man yesterday morning - it was a message since i didn't answer. he didn't say what it was about just the stuff aboiut needing to speak to me.

His name was mr Matthews - Mr Gordon Matthews.

today I received a letter from him - he works for Debt ClearRecoveries & Investigations Ltd.

giving me until the 30/01/2008 to contact them regarding my MBNA debt - a debt I acknowledge as being mine - i would just like some armour so I don't feel quite so backed in against the wall - if you know what i mean.

I suffer from mental illness and am on Incapacity Benefit. I am paying an agreed minimum to MBNA (aliliance and Leicester) each month. I have rented accomoadation and no savings or anything, and have had a Citizen's advice Bureau representative from about a year and half back ..but no contact with them for a while.

my thoughts are they will not get anything out of me - but the tone of this letter suggests they will try to doorstep me?

any guidance as to what my options could be, would be appreciated. thankyou for reading.

PS - I keep reading about CCA request letters - but I thought since the debt is outstanding - they've perhaps been sold it - and is actually mine - i can't ask them to prove that they are dealing with MY debt.

[MrTWS]

Okay so you are acknowledging this debt is your responsibility?

If so, it would be useful then to produce a Income and Expenditure listing so that this Debt Collector can clearly see what disposable income you have remaining (that is how much you can reasonably afford to pay)

 

Go to this website and download a form which will allow you to enter the figures, allow it to do the calculations for you, then SAVE it and print it, and send the creditor a copy. A Income versus Expenditure sheet allows the creditor clearly to see what you can reasonably afford, and if it goes to court, it allows the court to see you tried and in all likelyhood, problem solved

 

Hope I helped;)

National Debtline England & Wales | Personal Budget Sheet

[42man]

Hi Graham welcome to the forum, bear in mind that a debt can be disputed at any stage (are there any excessive penalty charges on your account ?)!!! It might be wise to write them a letter fully explain your circumstances and see if they will accept an affordable (affordable to you that is) payment agreement with them if you can afford to pay them back....but NEVER speak to them on the phone as they will say ANYTHING to frighten you into paying...(get EVERYTHING possible in writing)...it would seem that your debt has been passed on to Debt Clear Recoveries - you should have been notified by Alliance & Leicester / MBNA....

 

Keep us informed of your progress or indeed if they become unreasonable....you will get some incredibly valuable help on here I assure you.

[Preyin Graham]

thanks for your quick reply MrTWS and 42Man.

I don't wish to pay them a penny really - - would it be okay to pay them £1 per month.

I was advised by the CAB to pay MBNA £1 per month - this they accepted - because i didn't talk to them - they ended up having to negotiate with the representative at the CAB.

the last £1 went out at the end of January to MBNA - so I'm assuming I'm still paying them.

DCR & I have been sending me headed letters for ages - but something seems to have been stepped up - and with this phone call - it feels a bit more invasive now.

Is there nothing I can do that may make them back off a little?

I'm not sure what you mean by excessive pentaly charges 42man - my debt is just over £3000 and by disputed do you mean I can have a go at questioning what debt they have bought? - can I ask them how much they bought it for?

I drew up an income expenditure plan with the CAB - a while back and i do have a tiny bit more money - as I'm on the higher rate - but then I have to pay more out too.

I would maintain that the point is not how much money I have to spare - its to let them know that I know their game.

I think I'll let them know that I have no money to give them am on INCAP etc and that there is literally no point chasing the money. also that I request correspondence by mail and for them to acknowledge that they understand my request.

what do you think?..

I'm a bit worried about what you say about it going to court MrTWS - do you mean by problem solved - that I would end up having to pay them off?

I kind of wish I could get to the point that some appear to be at on here - where they actually get some fun out of sticking it to these people.

[Preyin Graham]

sorry- one more thing mrTWS, when you say, send it to the creditor - do you mean the original creditor , MBNA?

[diskmandave]

Hi Graham, as has already been stated, a debt can be disputed at any time. Though you are seemingly happy to acknowledge the debt as yours and find a solution as to its repayment.

 

They can't just "doorstep" you though. Strictly speaking, to comply with the OFT Debt Collection Guidance they would need to make an appointment with you first, and you have an added protection in those guidelines as you would be considered as vulnerable as you suffer from a mental illness.

 

The full guidance can be found here;

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

You also have the legal right to be sure that anyone pursuing you for money has the legal right to do so. And for that reason alone I personally advocate the use of the CCA request letter, which can be found here;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

This should be sent to whomever is pursuing you for money, if that's a third party then they are obliged to pass on the request and any statutory fee/s to the OC as per Section 175 of the CC Act. And should be sent by first class signed for as a minimum.

 

From the day after delivery "they" have 12 working days to provide a copy of the agreement that they are relying upon to claim a debt, after which time the debt is rendered unenforceable until which time the agreement is provided and after a further calendar month they commit a summary criminal offence to boot which is reportable to Trading Standards.

 

Best wishes, Dave.

 

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the scales!

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--

[42man]

When I mentioned excessive charges I meant things like Returned Cheque Fee £50, Failed Direct Debit Fee £50, Missed Payment Fee £60.....these type. Send them the letter, explain your situation fully, tell them that you have been paying them successfully...(if you want to avoide the phone calls write at the bottom of the letter - PLEASE NOTE I WILL ONLY ACCEPT WRITTEN CORRESPONDENCE - ANY PHONE CALLS MADE TO ME WILL BE REGARDED AS HARRASSMENT AND TREATED AS SUCH.

 

If they start getting heavy let us know !!!

[Preyin Graham]

hi dave,

No thats not true, I'm not happy to acknowledge the debt at all.

I'm not saying I'm blameless - but I question their methods - actually I question the whole banking setup but thats a bigger story.

I got into the debt through using a card - so some may say I should have curned my spending before then - but that is academic at this point

I think what I'm looking for is validation that I'm not totally without options . I have no income save benefits and basically got the credit card because I had to leave work because of a breakdown and didn't see a future...although I know I don't have to justify.

I think your point about the CCA request has kind of appealed to this though. thanks.

 

Ben

[Preyin Graham]

thanks 42Man I find that useful, since I have found two charges on my Alliance and Leciscester credit card bill that were unlawful - they were something like £22 each admin charges. so really i could say that they owe me that back.

I thought there;'s little point going for charges though since this court case, like with the banks. - I haven't heard back from them about my claim for unfair charges. my timing is terrible!

[MrTWS]

DiskmanDave above has given some excellent advice above

By the creditor, I mean, the one who is presently chasing you, hounding you with phone calls, etc. I assume that they have now taken over this debt from MBNA but I'm not sure if that is what you mean. At any one time, there should be just ONE creditor. It may have originally been MBNA, but if Mr whatever his name was (Mr Gordon Matthews) is now dealing with you, then its them that needs the letter

 

Look I know this sounds really scary and daunting to you, but we have all been there, and sometimes even then, its still scary. Take a DEEP breath and pause and RELAX for now. They are not going to bust in your door and duff you over. This is awful that these Debt Collectors make normal folks like you and me, and others, feel so fearful of them. They are just humans (maybe sometimes loosely speaking) and at the end of the day, as long as you have your life, then thats whats important. Stay cool for now, and search the posts. Be RELAXED because tomorrow is another day and just take your time

 

DO NOT LET these blood suckers deprive you of any sleep because although it may appear that at this moment in time, there is no light at the end of the tunnel, beleive me and others, there will be

 

Even IF you were taken to court, and I stress the word EVEN, then you are entitled by LAW to the basic requirements of food, shelter, and living expenses. There is an old saying:

 

You can't get BLOOD out of a STONE and thats so true. If you havent got it, what can they take from you. Be happy and keep your chin up, because here you have FRIENDS and support to help

 

I've got to go now, so get some sleep and stop worrying. Chat tomorrow yeh?

[Preyin Graham]

its only 7 o'clock.

thanks for your reassurance...I'm not too worried, more stressed than worried.

I'd love to be able to say one thing which would turn the situation around with them.

you're right - there's nothing to give them so what are they going to take?

[jumpjet]

Hi Preyin Graham,

 

Believe me, the longer you spend on this site, the more info and ammunition you will recieve. I am sometimes enjoy this now and I'm sometimes worried sick, but thanks to Cag and those on it, have not yet failed to come out the other side of any dispute with head held high. You will have your little victories.. and your little defeats.... But you will with the help of this site be able to dust yourself off and fight again.

 

Firstly, read all you can on this site, particularily those threads which involve the same people you are in dispute with I.E. MBNA etc. I'll bet you'll find that there is someone else on here with the same problem, from the same people, getting the same treatment etc. there are many examples of letters you can use to get DCA's off your back, and stop harrasment.

 

Thanks to this site I have dealt with MBNA. They stopped harrassing me, they returned charges. Occsionally they try to have another go..........and I'm still fighting.

You say that you acknowledge the debt with them. OK....... no problem with that. But I would CCA them anyway. If they can't enforce your debt, then all hassle will stop at one stroke when you've let them know your serious. Write to them and tell them to correspond only by letter. If you dont ask them.... they don't have to stop harrassing you. Answer all their correspondance as it comes in and keep copies of everything. If your are on benefits and can only pay £1 then it is likely that they will accept this because going to court will not produce any more for them. As has been said, send personal expenditure sheet. Gradually, after much correspondance with them you will minimise what they can do. And thats when you'll feel that your startiing to feel empowered.

[Preyin Graham]

hi Scampjet, I think that is what made me feel better - or I perhaps wanted to hear - that It is still worth sending the CCA request.

I think I'll do that, along with a letter asking them to stop contacting by phone.

I could go back to the CAB - but I would like to say that I've done this through my own research if you see what I mean.

I think depression is not that well understood in relation to motivation, by alot of people.

I have little motivation, and am very tired in life- I know this may sound dismissive, but it is quite heard to search through forums and forums for something which may or may not relate to my case - besides the technnical terminology - not two cases are exactly alike and it can feel not only wearing, but i pick up on things and it creates more stress.

it can often come down to the wire before I do anything - and it devlops into a vicious circle.

with this 30th of January deadline they gave me - it feels like I must clear everything up before then and I have othert hings in my life to do aswell in the meantime.

but apart from this...I feel fantastic.(j/k)

cheers for your input and point taken about feeling stronger once you have gone in the ring with them.

[diskmandave]

Trading Standards are also a great help should the need arise...

 

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

Regards, Dave.

[diskmandave]

You should also consider writing to the creditor asking that they consider writing the debt off due to your circumstances and given that they aren't going to change;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162364

 

And should that option fail there's a back up letter asking them to reconsider;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162365

 

Regards, Dave.

[jumpjet]

Also,

 

If your doctor will back up what you say with say a letter. Then the will be knowingly trying to take advantage of you as a vulnerable person and I would of thought that no DCA can do that legally!

 

 

 

Just a thought!

[Preyin Graham]

thanks for all your help so far. I've been looking around based on your advice and I 've drafted a couple of letters and produced a budget report which shows that I literally cannot spare any more than the agreed sum I've got paying out with MBNA - without going below a level of what is considered an amenable standard of living.

Is there any most effective way of sedning the three letters; the request for them to write the debt off, The letter expaining my circumstances and the request for a copy of the credit agreement - or could I send them as one package?

[42man]

Graham.....If I was in your position, I would ONLY at this stage send out the CCA request (with the £1 postal order) stating at the top in big letters that - I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY (as it has been passed on to a DCA).....you have to be careful that if you acknowledge the debt at this stage the DCA MAY possibly get heavy with you (whatever your personal circumstances are)....

[Preyin Graham]

Hi 42 man - cheers for your quick comeback.

SO although I do owe the money, I'm questioning their right to enforce the their methods on me to get that money?

I think this sounds good - as I'm not just lying down for them and saying hey I suffer mental illness - give me a break.

I intend to send that out today. and then if they come back harder - I'll send them a real world budget to show them that there's not a lot they could take - and then send the letter asking them to help me out and consider writing it off due to circumstances . what do you think?

[42man]

All i'm saying Graham is what I myself personally would do, by requesting a copy of the CCA, puts the debt immediately into dispute (and therefore is not legally enforceable at this stage).....I would wait and see what they say in reply to your CCA request....

[Preyin Graham]

Sure, understood.

incidentally, the disclaimer you put at the bottom of the letter, to request mail only correspondence - under which act is it our right to so this? is it the consumer credit act or the administration of justice act?

how about this one I concocted:

 

"I respectfully request that any future correspondence from you or your organisation to myself, be by postal mail alone, and that you send me confirmation that you have understood and will abide by this request henceforth. I assert the right to this request under the (relevant article) of the ....Act . Any further attempts to contact me in any other way, being deemed harrassment in light of my request."

 

In your experience, how well do they tend to respond to appeals to their ordinary-decent -human-being side?

for instance in my Circumstances letter, I began

"I would liketo give you an overview of my present circumstances , so that you may gain a better understanding of how they are relevant to my ability to give you what I surmise, you are looking for.."

and I ended it

"In short, I'd respectfully like to point out that there is little point chasing this debt as I really have nothing to give you"

[jumpjet]

Hi preyingraham,

 

Your already sounding less panicked and fighting fit!

 

I would suggest though that you use as direct an approach as you feel comfortable with.

 

Friendliness, sarcasm and a timid approach goes right over their heads in my opinion.

 

Take your examples from all the sample letters that are on here and adapt according to your needs. They are usually to the point and assertive which gives creditors no room to conveniently misconstrue what you require.

[Preyin Graham]

update: I received a copy of my Credit Card Agreement within (about the 12 days) it was from my original creditor. Alliance & Leicester. so it makes me wonder if Debt Recoveries and Investigations were chancing their arm.

any ideas on how I could consolidate my position now (besides paying off the debt) or is it a case of waiting for the next offensive?

[42man]

OK...so does it contain the prescribed terms ? is it properly executed ?

 

This may help (below) but it might be worth scanning it, cross off all the personal details and posting it up here for the experts to have a look at....

 

reproduced courtesy of Peter Bard..

 

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Prescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

[Preyin Graham]

which bits are best to post up 42? - I can take photos of it and post them as jpegs.

there are 6 sheets plus a photocopied front sheet