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CCJ/Scotland issue


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Dear all, thought I would get your take on the following situation.

In 1997 I fell out with a vehicle rental company based in England over damage to a vehicle. This resulted in the claimant applying for a CCJ against me...the only issue being that under the terms of the act i am domiciled in Scotland. Here is what happened:

 

July 2007 - his application is dismissed by St Albans County Court on grounds of being incorreclty served in Scotland and therefore incompetant

 

I thought that was the end of it and then moved houseonly to find out in December 2008 that he had registered an identical application at St Albans Court - once again! In this instance the judgement was granted by default. I called the court and a district Judge sitting on 22nd December set the case aside on grounds of jurisdiction - I did not have to apply for it to be set aside or anything.

 

However, early Jan 2009 I get a letter from the Court informing me that judgement had been entered against me by default and I now had a CCJ in my name.

 

I contacted the CAB who told me to write to HMC at St Albans and point o0ut the action was incompetant and the court has no jurisdiction over me and should be dismissed with costs in my favour - also to complain that the court had granted this judgement despite previously throwing out an identical claim.

 

In March 2009 I received a letter from the court dismissing my request and informing me I had to apply for a set aside hearing. I wrote back that to do so would result in admitting that the court had jurisdiction.

 

The court wrote back insisting that I apply to have the judgement set aside.

 

In May 2009 the cliamant has the enforcement of the judgement by defualt transferred to Scotland and I am presented with a payment order by the Sheriff Clerk's Officers. at this stage I contact my Scottish solicitor who points out to the SCO that they would be in danger of enforcing an incompetant judgement - to be fair to the SCO they hold fire on this. In the meantime my Scottish lawyers write to HMC highlighting the jurisdiction issue. At this time I also request my MP looks into the issue which he does.

 

The St Alban's court are inisitant however and tell me top apply for a set aside hearing which we eventually decide to do.

 

A court date is set in October but then i am informed by my scottish solicitor that we should not go to a set aside hearing so i cancel my cheque and write to the court.

 

We then engage an English lawyer who, working with my Scottish solicitor desides that a set aside application is the best way forward and a date for a hearing is scheduled on 28 th feb

 

the defence is straightforward -

 

the claim and judgement are incompetant on jurisdiction

 

the claimant did not complete the correct N form stating that I was domiciled in Scotland

 

I have not had the opportuinity to defend myself in court.

 

We were confident however on Friday afternoon the judge threw it out after 3 minutes on the ground that too much time had elapsed between the initial claim in 2007 and now.

 

I am very cheesed off about this because it is not exactly for want of trying to get a ruiling that this has dragged on so long. The judge saw no jurisdiction issues despite the clearly stated Paragraph 3 of the act.

 

All I want is the opportunity to argue my side of the claim in court but let that be in the court that has the jurisdiction to do so.

 

As things stand the claimant (a litigious fellow who is his own lawyer) seems to have had a streak of luck. My English lawyer is advising me to pay the man (about £5k) and walk away. My Scottish Solicitor is telling me to fight it as it is a serious quesion about jurisdiction that the english judge clearly does not understand and there is a good chance of winning an appeal.

 

I'm in 2 minds - but I have never put up with a bully before and I believe we have a just cause and a good argument if only we could get a judge to hear it!....

 

any ideas?

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The “you might as well pay up” type of statement for a Solicitor is a typical cop out in my opinion. It is rather a case of “I don’t know how to fight this and if I do my costs will exceed the sun craved so you might as well pay up” on the other hand your Scottish Solicitor clearly understands the case, knows that you should win and as such can crave costs. I the unlikely event that you win but do not get costs then would you rather have paid your Solicitor to eradicate the JJA or pay this litigious fellow?

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personally I want to fight the guy- Am furious with the English court - thier judgement is incompetant purely because the judge could not be arsed to look into the jurisdiction issue - if I end up running up 20k it is the principle at stake here and what is more I have a good case

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I fully understand and would be much the same as you if I could afford to stand the costs and time.

 

As for your remark

purely because the judge could not be arsed to look into the jurisdiction
how smart does a Judge need to be to know that there is different legal system north of the border?
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I spoke to a very expensive Sol last year who made a £500 per hour living off this issue - he said it was staggering how jurisdiction is not understood in England.

 

I'm very frustrated by this - essentially due to incompetancy I am faced with a costly legal battle - but hey so are lots of folk here

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sadly, I have decided that I will have to pay this guy off - I am bitterly dissapointed as I simply do not owe him what he is claiming. An English Court with no jurisdiction has made a judgement against me and is ignoring the issue of jurisdiction:

 

This situation is particularly galling here's why:

in the summer of 2007 XXXXXX contact me following an RTA which happened when I was driving one of their vehicles - here was minor panel damage. As I had waived the insurance excess I was liable for this and agreed to pay it. What then happened is that XXX sent a demand for some £4500 of repairs and lost revenue to me for payment. The vehicle was repaired in their own workshops by their own staff and the costs were an estimate of this. In addition they claimed lost revenue for every day the van was off the road. I wrote back saying that this was unacceptable and I needed a break down of the costs together with independent quotes and I was not willing to pay for the vehicle being off the road. Rather than provide that XXX started a claim against me in St Albans County Court.

This initial claim was dismissed as being incompetent due to jurisdiction. I thought this would result in XXX brining the case to Scotland, we moved house in the summer of 2008 and next thing that happened was I received a judgment from St Albans Court in December 2008 finding in favour of XXX by default. Had I been aware of this claim I would have defended it. I contacted the Court and explained that I was resident in Scotland and the case had already been dismissed because of this - The court agreed with me and the Judgement was set aside.

In Mid January 2009 I received a letter from the Court informing me that judgment had been found in favour of the claimant once again by default. This despite the case having been set aside on 2 previous occasions. No one at the court could explain to me why the judgement had been entered despite being previously set aside. At this stage I contacted the Citizens Advice Bureau in St Albans and explained the situation to them. Their advice was to write the letter I sent in February 2009 clearly stating that the court had no jurisdiction as I am resident in Scotland. The court wrote back informing me that I had to apply to have the case set aside at a hearing. This however, would acknowledge that the court had jurisdiction.

In May 2009 XXX swear an oath at St Albans Court enabling the judgement to be entered into the Books of the Court of Sessions, the first I know of this is when the Sheriff's Officers serve this. It was at this point I contacted my Scottish lawyers

On their advice I immediately wrote to the court applying for a hearing to have the case set aside. My Solicitors wrote to the Sheriff's Officers informing them that they could be enforcing a judgement that had been made by a court without jurisdiction.

The first court date in October 2009 was postponed due to holidays.

The 2nd court date was last Friday.

I briefed an English Lawyer and our argument was going to be that under Paragraph 3 of the 1984 Act St Albans Court have no jurisdiction in this case. Also to highlight that the claimant did not complete form N224 - had he done so the court would have identified I was resident in Scotland and acted accordingly - also it would have triggered a process that would have informed me of what I needed to do to defend a jurisdiction case. Watertight you would think? Only on Friday afternoon the Judge dismissed the case - he had no interest in looking into the jurisdiction question and said that the case had been dragging on too long and the judgement stood - despite 2 previous judges throwing it out and the inability of HMCS to answer my queries over jurisdiction.

On Friday evening the claimant wrote to me informing me that unless I pay the full amount by 12th February he will instruct the SO to act.

Now the output of this is twofold. Were I a resident in England I would have the opportunity to have the case heard as it has been found against me by default. This would give the judge the opportunity to look into the amount claimed. Also, I would have the opportunity to request a time to pay order. The problem is that I live in Scotland and this judgement has been logged at the Court of Session which enables the SO to act on the claimant's behalf. I feel bitterly disappointed that I have not had my opportunity to discuss my side of the story in court despite my numerous efforts. All advice I have been given stresses the importance of a case being brought in the correct jurisdiction. I acknowledge my solicitor's advice that I should just settle now but am deeply frustrated at essentially having the best part of £5k plus costs screwed out of me when I don't owe it and by a court system that seems indifferent. However, as I do not have the wherewithal to fund such an appeal it looks like I am just going to have to swallow it.

Therefore the issue now at hand is how I pay XXX The formal written Judgement has not yet been published. XXX are aggressively demanding full payment to a tight timescale and from what I know of this man he will not settle for a lesser amount. I work away from home during the week and I do not want the Sheriff's Officers beating down the door on the 13th March. Is there anything I can do to force XXX to come to a time to pay order? The irony being that if I were in England this would be a simple process of going through the County Court - but as St Albans have no jurisdiction in Scotland then I can't go through the county court.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment. I guess I am going to have to pay them off but I don't have the means to raise £5k in 2 weeks - it would take me 30 days at least to release this amount. Can I get a time to pay order from the Sheriff Court?

I seem to have got myself pinned down by an unscrupulous and litigious individual who has had the luck of the court.

Any advice would be gladly received - I have asked my English Solicitors to see if there is anything we can do in St Albans.

 

does anyone have any ideas?

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ok - I have spoken to a nice lady at the National Debt Helplilne who suggested that I appeal myself as there is nothing to lose. So, I have contacted the court who have sent me form N164 - apparantly I need to ask permission to appeal....

 

question for you legal seagulls - if I lodge an appeal can the claimant still take action or does he have to wait for the appeal?

 

cheers

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I beleive they can still take action.

 

 

Can you say who the SO is?

 

certainly making them aware than you are appealing the ccj due to incompentent judgement should make them put it on hold

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