Philips Bailiffs

[chrismc]

Hi Everyone!

 

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, please feel free to move it, I see a lot on recouping Bank Fees but not much on recouping from Baliffs etc, so here goes!! I was directed here from another forum only a couple of days ago and have been avidly reading as much as I can ever since, great forum guys thanks to whoever set it up and maintains it.

 

Brief synopsis, I split up with my ex around 3 years ago and she left me with a ton of debt and other problems, stupidly I had let her take out loans, credit cards, catalogues etc etc in my name as she could not get credit, needless to say when she left she left all the problems and debt with me.

 

Anyway, things move on I paid some and did deals with others as best I could, and in March last year I unexpectedly get a call from Philips Bailiffs (Darlington) acting on behalf of the Local Authority, they said I owed them around £1604.36 for unpaid Council Tax which had been unpaid by my ex when she lived with me. I of course argued etc etc but the top and bottom was it was easier to find me and make me pay rather than try and find her! So in a panic I ended up having to pay them £620.56 there and then and agree a payment plan of £200/month to pay the rest, even though it was not my debt, but I was told it was joint and severable??

 

However, before the Bailiff had left my house, the debt had suddenly risen to £2103.35 with their fees. So I started to pay monthly, got behind a little but always informed them when I would pay and how much, nothing left to chance, then in September last year I was in Ukraine and I got a phone call on my mobile to say Philips had been back to my home, had clamped my car and would not release it as I was a few days late in making a payment, so in their eyes I was in default!! I told them on the phone I had recently sent them some money (£200) but they said it arrived late, so would not listen.

 

The day I got home I had to arrange for them to come and see me, (no option with car clamped that I needed to get to work) again I ended up paying another £300+, and again the debt rose once more by another £300 - £400, this was added on to the overall balance. So each time I paid the monthly £200 I was in effect just paying more lumps of their extortionate fees.

 

Well now it is all paid, and I have found this site, I want to fight back, I have visited the http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=02_bailiffs_and_council_tax

Site which shows quite clearly what BAILIFFS CHARGES FOR COUNCIL TAX/POLL TAX should be, as an example it states:

 

First Visit £22.50 - I was charged £160.00

Levy Fee £22.50 - I was charged £139.00

Walking Possession Fee £11.00 - I was charged £200.00

and so on, in fact I think over the time period this went on I was probably charged close to £1000.00 in charges, fees etc by them!

 

What I want to know is and sorry for taking so long to get to the questions,

 

1.has anyone successfully reclaimed Baliffs fees?

 

2.has anyone tackled Philips before on something like this?

 

3.what is my best course of action, I thought I would write first asking for all documentation held by them on me under Section 7 of the DPA, what do you think?

 

Thanks for everyones help in advance. This is the first of a number of claims I want to start, but the others seem fairly straight forward compared to this one.

 

Chrismc

[Tygermoth]

Hello!

 

I too have a DCA claim ongoing and am looking to reclaim charges. I have sent a dpa request and a letter for the debt agreement (see the thread called 'debt collection agenies started by Andrew1 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3525 )

 

Let me know how it goes and if you want owt Just PM me.

 

Good luck!

 

Tyger

[chrismc]

Hello!

 

I too have a DCA claim ongoing and am looking to reclaim charges. I have sent a dpa request and a letter for the debt agreement (see the thread called 'debt collection agenies started by Andrew1 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3525 )

 

Let me know how it goes and if you want owt Just PM me.

 

Good luck!

 

Tyger

 

Thanks Tyger....I think? mine may be a little different as it was Bailiffs working on behalf of the LA...who would have provided all the relevant documentation for the case.

 

I believe they have overcharged me fees in a big way and it is those that I want to recoup. As it is Bailiffs rather than a normal DCA I hesitate before doing anything or until I can get someones opinion from here or their personal experiences.

 

chrismc

[Tygermoth]

Hey NP.

 

Im sure there will be people about that will have a more valuable experience to offer - thats the great thing about this site!

 

Good hunting

 

Tyger

[BotB]

1.has anyone successfully reclaimed Baliffs fees?

 

Yes

 

.

2.has anyone tackled Philips before on something like this?

 

No, but they're all as bad as each other.

 

3.what is my best course of action, I thought I would write first asking for all documentation held by them on me under Section 7 of the DPA, what do you think?

 

Yes that's the first step. Ask them also to provide you with a breakdown of their costs.

 

When you get the information in response to your S7 request, you can go through it and see where the charges have been applied.

 

Check these threads, there's some others here chasing bailiffs for their money back.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4411

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=7538

[chrismc]

Thanks BotB.....I thought that was the way to start, but new to this so best to ask!!

[Guest Lueeze]

I was told by a bailiff today that he charges 75p per mile petrol and £35 per hour.

[chrismc]

I was told by a bailiff today that he charges 75p per mile petrol and £35 per hour.

 

Well Lueeze....I don't know a lot about what they can and cannot charge apart from what I got from the National Debtline site above, but 75p/mile seems excessive and I am pretty sure it is a lot higher than standard HM Revenue & Customs guidelines for authorised mileage allowances are, unless of course he drives Bentley!!

 

chrismc

[chrismc]

I was told by a bailiff today that he charges 75p per mile petrol and £35 per hour.

 

Just checked rates and it says the first 10,000 miles per year 40p/mile over 10,000 25p/mile that is assuming they are self employed and the rates are what they reclaim from their company.

 

So yet another rip off!! that we pay for!!

[BotB]

There are different charges depending what they are after collecting - there's a scale of charges for parking fines, Council tax, rent etc. Bailiffs can't charge more than the fixed scale of charges.

There's no scale of fees for bailiffs charges for collecting fines in the Magistrates Court but the Courts themselves are supposed to coem up with a scale of fees proportionate to fine they are collecting.

[Seminole]

And I would love to know what the legal basis is for certificated bailiffs collecting other sorts of debt or undertaking "enforcement".

[chrismc]

There are different charges depending what they are after collecting - there's a scale of charges for parking fines, Council tax, rent etc. Bailiffs can't charge more than the fixed scale of charges.

There's no scale of fees for bailiffs charges for collecting fines in the Magistrates Court but the Courts themselves are supposed to coem up with a scale of fees proportionate to fine they are collecting.

 

BotB

 

I found this http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=02_bailiffs_and_council_tax#8

which sets out their charges, do you know if this is correct, and can they charge any other fees??

 

thanks for you help

 

I have also found this which may be of interest to others http://www.multikulti.org.uk/en/debt/bailiffs-council-tax/ it also states:

DON'T leave windows open or doors unlocked - bailiffs can legally get in through these. Bailiffs CANNOT get the police to help them break in.

which I know others have been discussing in other threads.

 

chrismc

[chrismc]

Something else I have found which is very interesting:-

 

BAILIFFS CHARGES

You may be able to complain about bailiffs charges. The amounts they are allowed to charge for council tax and poll tax are set out in the schedule on page 5. The amounts they are allowed to charge for council tax are set out on the next page in the schedule. There are lower fees for poll tax collection. These are shown in italics. If you feel you have been charged too much you can complain in writing to the Council and the bailiffs. You may be able to ask the County Court to look at the charges for you see below. Phone us for advice.

 

You can find out what is ‘reasonable’ by making enquiries on a local basis. For example, if you have been charged £80 for attendance with a van, and local enquires indicate you could hire a van for a morning for £40 this is clearly unreasonable, especially as it is likely that bailiffs will be visiting several properties at once, and many companies own their own vans.

 

In the first instance, complain to the bailiffs themselves. You can tell them you know their charges are excessive and that you will be taking further action if the charges are not reduced to the levels shown in the schedule.

 

* You can then complain to the council as the bailiffs are acting as agents of the Council. There have been recent cases that have been taken back in front of the Magistrates Court over these issues, with the result that the councils have been forbidden to take any further recovery action, or in other words, the debt has been written off. So it IS worth complaining.

 

* You can apply to the County Court for the costs to be checked. This is called "Taxation". The court can look at a complaint within 12 months. They will decide if the charges are excessive or not. There is a fee to pay to the court for this application. If the court decides not reduce the bill at least 20% you can be liable for the bailiffs firm’s court costs. You need legal advice first.

 

USEFUL LINKS

The Secretary

Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies

Kensington House

33 Imperial Square

Cheltenam

Glos

Tel: 01242 241456

Website: www.acea.org.uk

 

The Secretary

Enforcement Services Association (ENSAS)

(formally The Certificated Bailiffs Association) Ridgefield House

14 John Dalton Street Manchester M2 6JR Tel: 0161 839 7225

Website: www.bailiffs.org.uk

 

 

Local Government Ombudsman (England)

Millbank Tower

Milbank

London SW1P 4QP

Advice Line: 0845 602 1983

Monday to Friday 9.00 am – 4.30 pm. Website: www.lgo.org.uk

[BotB]

* You can apply to the County Court for the costs to be checked. This is called "Taxation". The court can look at a complaint within 12 months. They will decide if the charges are excessive or not. There is a fee to pay to the court for this application. If the court decides not reduce the bill at least 20% you can be liable for the bailiffs firm’s court costs. You need legal advice first.

 

This could be a useful tool as if you succeed in getting the charges reduced by the Court by more than 20%, the Court has to automatically refer it as a complaint against the bailiffs whereby their licence to operate will be under threat. The downside is if you don't get past the 20% mark it could end up costing you more than you bargained for as the bailiffs can recover their costs of attending the taxation hearing from you.

 

A preferable alternative is to use the small claims procedure.

[chrismc]

 

This could be a useful tool as if you succeed in getting the charges reduced by the Court by more than 20%, the Court has to automatically refer it as a complaint against the bailiffs whereby their licence to operate will be under threat. The downside is if you don't get past the 20% mark it could end up costing you more than you bargained for as the bailiffs can recover their costs of attending the taxation hearing from you.

 

A preferable alternative is to use the small claims procedure.

Yes I agree, I am going to send them an S7 to start with and also ask for a comprehensive breakdown of their fees and charges, and see what comes back.

 

But I wonder if you could act retrospectively under guidance of the statement above and therefore maybe get back everything you have paid since the first visit from the council?? Interesting!!! any comments? Maybe a talk with CAB or someone would help?

 

But I would be happy with just getting the exhorbitant fees back really as the Council Tax was owed but not by me unfortunately, by my ex!

[MARTIN3030]

Well done Chris a good start and lots of research !!

 

 

 

[chrismc]

Well done Chris a good start and lots of research !!

 

 

 

 

Thanks Martin.....and well done for finding this place

[MARTIN3030]

http://www.dca.gov.uk/consult/bailiff/bannd2fr.htm

 

Dunno if you already saw this Chris ?

[chrismc]

http://www.dca.gov.uk/consult/bailiff/bannd2fr.htm

 

Dunno if you already saw this Chris ?

 

Yes I already have it stored safely in a nice little, soon to be large folder I am compiling

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

Apologies if I have missed this, but how do you determine whether the bailiff is certificated or not? I have a thread going about DH's traffic fines, which have now escalated to £751. They have also added £230 for van. We were out at the time and have no proof the bailiff came with a van.

[chrismc]

Apologies if I have missed this, but how do you determine whether the bailiff is certificated or not? I have a thread going about DH's traffic fines, which have now escalated to £751. They have also added £230 for van. We were out at the time and have no proof the bailiff came with a van.

 

Hi mum

 

Realistically you can ask them when they visit, but if not I would visit some of the above links and check them out, or call and ask for a copy of their certifcate or call your local council and ask them, or whoever they were working for.

 

I think if you do a search on google you will be able to find a list.

 

chrismc

[chrismc]

mum

 

Try this website or call them for a list

 

The Secretary

Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies

Kensington House

33 Imperial Square

Cheltenham

Gloucestershire

GL50 1QZ

Tel: 01242 241456

Website: www.acea.org.uk

 

Hope it helps.

Chris

[MARTIN3030]

www.payplan.com

 

Another good link.

 

[Guest Mumofthreeboys]

chrismc, thank you very much.

 

Well they are certificated (Crichtons & Co) and now I'm going to write to them to complain about their excessive charges and to the council the PCN's relate to. I will also ask them which court the warrant came from.

 

I've already asked them for DPA information they hold on DH and it shows they visited 20.4.06, but there was nothing through our door to say they'd been.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[chrismc]

chrismc, thank you very much.

 

Well they are certificated (Crichtons & Co) and now I'm going to write to them to complain about their excessive charges and to the council the PCN's relate to. I will also ask them which court the warrant came from.

 

I've already asked them for DPA information they hold on DH and it shows they visited 20.4.06, but there was nothing through our door to say they'd been.

 

Thanks again for your help.

Mum

 

I was once working in Hastings (approx 4-5 years ago) and unloading my car taking my suitcase etc in to a hotel I was staying at. When I came out I had a parking ticket, I took it off the car and went in with another bag, when I came out lo and behold I had another ticket, 2 in the space of 15 minutes.

 

Needless to say I told the council to sod off, they kept chasing me and it all went quite for around 4 - 6 months, then I got a letter stating they had sent baliffs to my address (300+ miles away) and they were going to pusue the original tickets, costs fees and bailiff charges.

 

I eventually wrote back to them and told them that no bailiff had ever been to my house and no cards were ever put through the door, I also stated if they could prove they had in fact been then I would pay the bill, but unless they could prove this I would not pay for the bailiffs charges, but I would pay the parking tickets of they gave me a breakdown of how they had been calculated.

 

Guess what, I never ever heard anymore from them. I think the bailiffs had told the council they had been when they hadn;t and once the council found out their own agents were telling lies they thought better of pursuing me.

 

So it just goes to show, sometimes you can catch them out without really trying too hard, I had no idea what to do I just called their bluff.

 

So my advice to you is take it as far as you can, they are not as clued up as people think they are.

 

BTW where you received your parking ticket, are all the llines in place, not obscured, properly painted etc etc, there are apparantly lots of ways now you can get away with parking tickets if you know your rights.

 

Here's a couple of sites worth looking through

 

http://www.parkingticket.co.uk/

 

http://www.ticketbusters.co.uk/

 

Hope this helps

Chris