French v Abbey.. I Won and They Settled!!

[srfrench]

Well after umming & arrrring for an age and reading all your posts I've decided to start the ball rolling for me personally starting with my 1st Bank Account - Abbey.

 

I'm luckier than most as I keep all my Bank Statements so didn't need to hassle Abbey with the DPA so went through them all for 6 years worth of charges - £1244.50

 

Got the pre-lim letter and modified the spreadsheet a little to exclude the 8% interest column and no.of days and sent it 30th June 2006 recorded.

 

They've got till the 16th July to respond.

 

Hope it'll be simple!

 

Many thanks in advance to all at B.A.G. & will keep you all posted as to what happens. I will also post the docs I used later today.

[srfrench]

My Address

Abbey

PO Box 382

Prescot Street

London E1 8RP

 

30th June 2006

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 2XXXXXXXX2

 

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 6 (six) years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £1244.50 from my account over the said period.

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

Mr. Stephen French

[srfrench]

In Respect of: Amount Date Incurred

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £20.00 06/05/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 10/05/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 17/05/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £30.00 18/04/2006

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £35.00 03/05/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 15/02/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 27/02/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 28/02/2006

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £20.00 01/02/2006

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £30.00 01/02/2006

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 14/11/2005

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 30/11/2005

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 26/09/2005

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 04/10/2005

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £30.00 05/09/2005

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/07/2005

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £30.00 22/04/2005

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/04/2005

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 05/05/2004

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £15.00 25/03/2004

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 05/04/2004

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/03/2004

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/03/2004

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £15.00 03/06/2003

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/06/2003

CHEQUE RETURNED CHARGE £32.00 05/06/2003

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £15.00 06/06/2003

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 12/06/2003

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 12/06/2003

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £16.50 05/03/2000

UNPAID STO CHARGE £30.00 08/03/2001

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 09/03/2001

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 15/03/2001

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 29/03/2001

UNPAID STO CHARGE £30.00 10/04/2001

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 12/04/2001

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 07/11/2001

£1,244.50

[srfrench]

Obviously and sorry about the spreadsheet not transferring directly onto the forum posting page.Basically it's a case of 3 columns, Type of Charge, Amount, Date Incurred.

 

7 more days to go............ it's getting addictive!

[srfrench]

Just spotted two more charges today while ensuring I have an up-to-date figure to hand. (How I missed them is beyond me! (Another £70!)

 

Preparing second "reminder" letter to Abbey soon so will include it on that and on the spreadsheet and will post to the forum next week.

 

Thoughts on this matter........

 

Abbey is spending more than it needs to putting effort into getting default judgements aside and then after a possible defence and winning a set aside it then pays the full amount "out-of-court". In effect it quashes the order. Nice trick....

 

Wouldn't it be cheaper (and more profitable) to repay everyones charges then revise their costs in their T & C's to a level of say £5 and make a show of it! Think of the positive publicity it could generate!!! Still if their incompetant at that as well..........?

[srfrench]

Well received a reply today 11th July 2006 dated the 6th July 2006 direct from Marc Winder, Head of Complaints at Abbey. (Bet he's busy!)

 

I also have a new address for sending any correspondence to:

 

Complaints

Abbey

PO Box 5129

Milton Keynes MK9 2YN

 

It was a standard form letter, the usual one sent to all those claiming. It reads:

 

Dear Mr French

 

 

Thank you for contacting us and I am sorry that you have been so unhappy that you have felt you must complain.

 

 

One of my team will be responsible for investigating your complaint and I have enclosed our Complaints leaflet, which explains our procedure for doing this. High quality customer service is of great importance to us at Abbey and we will do everything we can to resolve your complaint in a timely and satisfactory manner.

 

 

I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly, but we want to do a thorough investigation and sometimes this can take time. If we have not contacted you before then, we will write to you in four weeks to let you know what is happening.

 

 

Although I do not know what the outcome will be, I do hope that we will be able to find a solution that you are happy with.

 

 

Enc. Complaints Leaflet.

 

Guess what boys and girls...... they forgot to include the complaints leaflet.... another stalling tactic or total incompetance? If this is the quality of service we are receiving is it no wonder everyone is complaining?

 

I will now wait till Monday before posting my second letter (my LBA) as it does not deal in any substantive way with my complaint. Stay tuned!!

[srfrench]

Well, as the next step I have edited an LBA letter to go to their Complaints Dept. I will be posting it tomorrow recorded delivery (Saturday Morning) so it should reach them by Monday!

 

I have amended the bottom of the letter to request evidence to support their charging regieme as I didn't want a std form letter back from them (If I do then fine!) Hopefully if court action is initiated I could then show the court in my claim that they have had ample time with which to produce such evidential support to their argument and to make it difficult for Abbey to stall proceedings!!

 

Contents as follows:

 

My Address

Complaints

Abbey

PO Box 5129

Milton Keynes MK9 2YN

 

16th July 2006

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 2XXXXXX1 YOUR REF: 472624

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond positively to my letter of the 30th June 2006, instead, just being sent an impersonal form letter dated 6th July 2006 with its Complaints Leaflet enclosure missing.

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £1314.50 from my account over the disputed six year period.

I have enclosed a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 30th June 2006.

 

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

If you wish to defend yourselves by using the argument that your charges accurately reflect your costs, then I will require you to disclose a material breakdown of your charges to support this.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

(Mr. Stephen French)

 

Now all I have to do is wait another 14 days before starting a Court Claim on the 30th July 2006. The above letter will probably be replied to as regards a form letter stating that their charges are lawful but won't elaborate as to their breakdown as requested and doesn't address my issue. We shall wait and see!

[srfrench]

Well this just takes the p**s!!

 

Just checked my account on-line a few minutes ago and they have really screwed up this time!!

 

Account is below my overdraft limit and a £30 cheque should have gone through with no problems........ but it has been refused saying insufficient funds!!!

 

What the f*&K are they playing at!!? Cleared funds, below overdraft limit and with a cheque guarantee card!

 

Now i've got to go into town on Monday morning to berate them over this! This is wasting my time. If I use telephone banking I get through to their overseas call-centre who I can't hear nor understand (I'm nearly deaf you see!) and even when I did in the past they said they'd refund the charge.... yet never did! This is costing me in parking charges, my time @ 1 hour @ £17.25 and my normally affable sanity! Can I claim this back as it's their clear mistake this time!?

 

Where would I stand on this Guys?

 

Cheers

[bowkett]

Hi srfrench, just been reading your thread and I dont know why I havent seen it before. Your case sounds very much like mine, even a similar amount of money too! I will be keeping an eye on your progress, I am due to file this coming Wednesday wiht Money claim. Good luck!

[srfrench]

You too Bowkett.

 

Will keep an eye on your progress too and if we need to discuss, hopefully we can?

 

Good luck dude.

[bowkett]

Yes, anytime, I am starting to get butterflies about Wednesdays moneyclaim thing but I am not stopping now!!

[srfrench]

Trust me... it's all in the mind and only natural. It's actually not that bad and you'll wonder what the hell the fuss was all about if you have to go into the County Court. It's almost like a small office, you sit and face the defendant and the judge in everyday clothes sits to one side between you both and controls proceedings. You don't have to be versed in legal matters or protocols to present your case as the judge will guide you. So long as you remember to the call the male judge "Sir" and the female "Ma'am" you won't go wrong if you stick to what is in your claim and listed in the templates and listen to the Judge!

 

Easy-peasy

[Darren]

Well this just takes the p**s!!

 

Just checked my account on-line a few minutes ago and they have really screwed up this time!!

 

Account is below my overdraft limit and a £30 cheque should have gone through with no problems........ but it has been refused saying insufficient funds!!!

 

What the f*&K are they playing at!!? Cleared funds, below overdraft limit and with a cheque guarantee card!

 

Now i've got to go into town on Monday morning to berate them over this! This is wasting my time. If I use telephone banking I get through to their overseas call-centre who I can't hear nor understand (I'm nearly deaf you see!) and even when I did in the past they said they'd refund the charge.... yet never did! This is costing me in parking charges, my time @ 1 hour @ £17.25 and my normally affable sanity! Can I claim this back as it's their clear mistake this time!?

 

Where would I stand on this Guys?

 

Cheers

 

 

The same thing happened to me, they charged me for paying a debit card payment of £30.32 due to insufficient funds, but I was £250 in credit. I thought it was because I issued a Court Summons against them, but perhaps they are starting to do this just for revenge against anyone who complains to them, the more I deal with them, the more I realise how childish and unprofessional they can be.

 

good luck

[srfrench]

Yes I know, sad isn't it.... and just when you think I'm going to be talking to a mature adult!!

 

Still, seeing them shortly, so will see if I get this returned with an apology! On a plus point however, we can clearly demonstrate now that they make horrendous mistakes and are not providing "a service" to us at all contrary to what is laid down in their "Banking Code"!

 

If it doesn't get refunded, well........... I'll just add it to my claim and add a further charge to it like parking fees and my hourly rate divided by the time it took me to resolve this issue. After all I can provide a breakdown of my charges..... can they?

[srfrench]

Well her we go stage 3...... filling out the N1 Claims Form for handing in to the Court on Monday 31st. Still nothing more from Abbey bar that received above.

 

I'm quite impressed with all the literature and support on this site, well recommended to anyone even so much as contemplating suing their bank. Still....

 

Claimant

 

Me

 

 

Defendant

 

Abbey NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENTS PLACE

London NW1 3AN

 

Brief Details of Claim

 

The action is on the grounds that:

 

I have a contract with the Defendant which is conducted on their standard terms and conditions. I am claiming the return of monies taken by the Defendant in the way of charges plus the interest they have levied on those charges. The Defendants’ charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to Common Law.

 

Further as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 para. 8 and sch. 2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. I have repeatedly asked the Defendant to justify their charges but they have declined to do so

 

Value

 

Bank Charges taken in the period 5th March 2000 to 31st July 2006 of £1404.50. I am also claiming interest on the bank charges of £202.34; this is calculated at 8% as allowed by s.64 of the County Courts Act 1984.

 

Total Value of Claim is therefore £1606.84

 

Particulars Of The Claim

 

1. The Claimant has an account xxxxxxxx (“the Account”) with the Defendant.

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

4.1. The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature: are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant: exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant: and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

4.2. The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act (1977) and in Common Law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

5.1. The return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £1404.50 plus £202.34 interest at 8% until the 31st July 2006 plus interest continuing at the same rate of £0.31 pence per day until date of judgement pursuant to section 69 County Corts Act, as set out on the attached list of charges or at such a rate and for such periods as the Court deems just.

 

5.2. A declaration from this honourable court that the term of the contract leading to the application of the charges is unenforceable.

 

5.3. Court costs.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

 

It could prove interesting insofar as the item 5.2 in red requires the court to make a statement regarding the contents. Therefore if the bank wishes to settle my claim outside of the court room, they would have to settle with a bit more otherwise I will have a decision by the Court that the charges are indeed unenforceable. I'm not overly concerned now if the bank forces it into Fast Track as I could argue the toss. Based on all the established case and common law this is all we need.

 

List of all my charges:

 

Item Amount Date Days Interest

CHEQUE RETURNED CHARGE £35.00 05/07/2006 26 £0.20

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £20.00 05/07/2006 26 £0.11

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 14/06/2006 47 £0.36

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006 60 £0.46

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006 60 £0.46

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006 60 £0.46

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006 60 £0.46

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 01/06/2006 60 £0.46

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 17/05/2006 75 £0.58

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 10/05/2006 82 £0.63

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £20.00 06/05/2006 86 £0.38

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £35.00 03/05/2006 89 £0.69

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £30.00 18/04/2006 104 £0.69

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 28/02/2006 153 £1.18

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 27/02/2006 154 £1.19

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 15/02/2006 166 £1.28

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £20.00 01/02/2006 180 £0.79

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £30.00 01/02/2006 180 £1.19

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 30/11/2005 243 £1.87

UNPAID DD CHARGE £35.00 14/11/2005 259 £1.99

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 04/10/2005 300 £2.11

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 26/09/2005 308 £2.17

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £30.00 05/09/2005 329 £2.17

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/07/2005 395 £2.78

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £30.00 22/04/2005 465 £3.07

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/04/2005 486 £3.42

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 05/05/2004 817 £3.59

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004 818 £3.60

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004 818 £3.60

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004 818 £3.60

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/05/2004 818 £3.60

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 05/04/2004 847 £3.73

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £15.00 25/03/2004 858 £2.83

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/03/2004 882 £6.21

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 01/03/2004 882 £6.21

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 12/06/2003 1145 £8.06

UNPAID DD CHARGE £32.00 12/06/2003 1145 £8.06

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £15.00 06/06/2003 1151 £3.80

CHEQUE RETURNED CHARGE£32.00 05/06/2003 1152 £8.11

PAYMENT MADE CHARGE £20.00 04/06/2003 1153 £5.07

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £15.00 03/06/2003 1154 £3.81

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 07/11/2001 1727 £11.40

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 12/04/2001 1936 £12.78

UNPAID STO CHARGE £30.00 10/04/2001 1938 £12.79

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 29/03/2001 1950 £12.87

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 15/03/2001 1964 £12.96

UNPAID DD CHARGE £30.00 09/03/2001 1970 £13.00

UNPAID STO CHARGE £30.00 08/03/2001 1971 £13.01

OVERDRAFT LIMIT CHARGE £16.50 05/03/2000 2339 £8.49

£1,404.50 £202.34 Total:£1,606.84

 

Oh BUM! I still can't get the spreadsheet to transfer properly, will look at it later.

 

Am I still doing everthing OK Guys?

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated as no forms yet submitted, so would have chance to modify.

 

MAny thanks in advance. :-|

[srfrench]

Thanks Karnevil.

 

To be honest I am having second thoughts with that paragraph insofar as what you say is right and this would only possibly muddy the waters with the claim.

 

I will amend to omit this although I would like to hear what others have to say on this matter or even to word it better.

 

Ceers Bud.

[bowkett]

Hi there, Karnevil is right about the address, my local court also told me I should "PLC" after Abbey. Starts getting a bit more exciting now eh!!

[srfrench]

You betcha Bowkett. Though to be honest I could really do with the £120 otherwise I am going to have to go without on other things and guess what...... get charged

 

I take it you've submitted your N1 form now and are just waiting for the 14 days to elapse?

 

Just wondering how they will play the game with you and me Bowkett...... defense, AQ, Offer, set-aside, amendment to defense etc etc. Would rather have for everyone a straight forward settlement. Wish the FSA and OFT could get their act together and flex their muscles!

 

Still......... what's for tea? Aha....... caviar and toast, not the same old boring grub again!!?

[srfrench]

Thanks for that Karnevil....... and I thought I was being brief ! :grin: I don't half waffle, oh and did you know that............

 

Have amended it a little so it's a little more compact than it was. Roll on Monday, need the loo again....... damn this caviar...........

 

Will keep all posted in this thread to any further developments and stages.

[bowkett]

Not heard anything from them myself as yet, have until 06/08 to acknowledge or defend, yes it would be nice if they just paid up but some how I cant see it, not that I care as I am prepared for the fight It will be beans on toast in my house, just putting my N1 together for my claim against Tescos!

[srfrench]

What for the quality of their Beans or their financial services?

[bowkett]

At least you still have your humour if nothing else eh! I like it, maybe I should be doing one for the quality of their beans, those in the blue and white tins are dreadful:)

[srfrench]

LMAO........ :grin: Stick to caviar mate, they're smaller come with their own sauce, don't require cooking and don't give you copious amounts of embarrassing noises! On the down side it flushes your inards out..... ouch!

 

At the moment my humour is the only thing going for me. Come Monday another £120 lighter, but hey, I will get it back!

 

Oh and try not to use Tesco's own brand bread, toast it and you might as well eat a creal box!

 

Will be watching you Bowk (big bro or what?) hope the outcomes swift eh?

 

Take care dude.

[srfrench]

Oh Bowkett, let us know if the bank intends to close or restrict your account in anyway. If it does it will be good to view the two links below for rulings by the FSA on things like account closures et al. (Last section in the second link is juicy!)

 

FSA sets deadline for firms falling behind with 'treating customers fairly'

 

Towards fair outcomes for consumers

 

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! there goes the caviar! :grin:

[srfrench]

Hmmmmmmm..... help or advice required here Ladies & Gents

 

Will Abbey attempt to close my account? Nothing mentioned here yet from Abbey but I would like to be more than prepared.

 

Many Ta's