Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Vehicle Repossession imminent: Santander Consumer Finance


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4957 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I am new here, but had spent some time reading through the threads.

My sad tale of woe is made sadder because I simply have no one else to blame but myself really...

 

I got a car through Santander Consumer Finance in Oct 2008 on HP - made payments regularly without issue until Oct 2009 when I lost my job (was made redundent due to recession) and wasnt able to find work for about 5months - in those 5months there have been 3 missed payments. When I was employed again I resumed payments and when I had extra cash, made extra payments - however, there are still 2 payments outstanding.

Anyway, Crystal Repossession company contacted me last week to say they had been handed an order to repossess the car on behalf on Santander.

 

I panicked on Friday, contacted family members, found out how much was in arrears, and got the money together.

I contact Santander on Friday to tell them I was able to pay arrears PLUS charges in full, if they could halt the repossession order.

They told me unless I could pay in full (£6500) they were not interested as they had cancelled the contract. I called several times trying to make the arrears payment because this would have taken me over paying 1/3 of the car but they would not accept the payment (I was told to do this by an insolvency debt helpline, because then Santander Consumer finance would need a court order to get the car).

 

We then contacted the Financial Ombudsmen, and Santander Consumer Finance to lodge compliants - subsequently, I have held off the Repossession company until tomorrow, when they want to pick up the car.

 

My question is, I have recieved a letter from Santander Consumer Finance Customer Services department, with my agreement number on it, saying they are investigating my compliants (but this can take up to 4weeks to resolve), as well as recieving confirmation that the Financial Ombudsman has contacted Santander as well (but they have to allow 8 weeks for Santander to repsond) - my question is:

 

Do I allow them to take the car and wait for a resolution?

Or do I 'hide' the car on private property, contact the repossession company and tell them I will not reliquish the car until all investigations are complete...?

 

I still have the total amount in arrears ready to pay, but was told by Santander Consumer Finance, last week, that this wasnt good enough...

 

*cookies for anyone that got through all that and understood my rambling*

Any advice would be appreciated

 

Thanks

Dani

Link to post
Share on other sites

Santander are becoming very much complained about here on cag!

 

Firstly I would suggest moving your car off the road until this issue has been resolved as a matter of urgency!!

 

I trust this was a regulated HP agreement?

 

So basically you are 2 payments in arrears and they are determined to repo. Have you received a default notice or termination letter from them??

 

Don't blame yourself, we all get into financial difficulty from time to time and that certainly wasn't your fault!

You have been doing your best to deal with this problem and making extra payments whenever you can, you have absolutely nothing to reproach yourself over.

 

These companies are generally nothing more than ugly bullies, as consumers we are not trying to avoid paying our debts just simply petitioning to be treated fairly and honestly.

 

I'm sure you will get all the help you need here :-)

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have recieved default notices, yes - which I added onto the payments I have been making...

 

However, I dont believe I have recieved a Termination Letter (I have gone through ALL the mail just to check) - I was simply told on the phone, when I contacted Santander Consumer Finance on Friday to try and make the arrears payment *in full* (£600) that the agreement had been cancelled and could therefore not make the payment - the repossession was going through...

 

And yes, it was a regulated HP agreement

Link to post
Share on other sites

So even though you were making regular payments of the full amount and paying some off your arrears when you could, they still terminated and instructed repo agents?? What a flaming disgrace!!! :-x

 

Well what you do next really depends on what outcome you would like to see, what is the ideal solution to this for you??

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to keep my car... nevermind all the negative repercussions against my credit record, I love the car!

Trust me, I know how you feel!! :madgrin:

 

In that case I would suggest you write a letter to santander stating that you have not received a default notice and, on the basis of the previous default notice, the default is invalid due to overstating of sums due. Therefore if they proceed with the repo on the back of a dodgy dn the agreement will be invalid and you will sue them unlawful repo and unlawful rescission of contract whereby you will be entitled to return of all monies paid and return of the vehicle or the value of.

The vehicle is now kept constantly on private property so if they wish to repo they would need to apply to the courts for a return of goods order which, incidentally, you will vehemently defend on the basis of their unreasonable conduct in not accepting payment of the arrears, also notwithstanding your right to ask the court for a time order whereby you may be permitted to keep the vehicle and continue with payments as is your intention presently.

Alternatively they could just accept your payment and say no more about it ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for your feedback...

 

Would they need to get a court order for return of goods even though I *havent* paid off 1/3 of the repayments yet?

I was led to believe they are legally allowed to repossess then even without a court order?

 

It is all very confusing (and I really am not trying to shirk my responsibility in this - I am happy to pay the arrears, the default charges AND continue to pay off the car) - and btw, I have just rechecked *everything* and I definitely have not recieved a final notice OR a letter of termination. All I have are default notices...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for your feedback...

 

Would they need to get a court order for return of goods even though I *havent* paid off 1/3 of the repayments yet?

I was led to believe they are legally allowed to repossess then even without a court order?

 

It is all very confusing (and I really am not trying to shirk my responsibility in this - I am happy to pay the arrears, the default charges AND continue to pay off the car) - and btw, I have just rechecked *everything* and I definitely have not recieved a final notice OR a letter of termination. All I have are default notices...

They can only take the car without a court order IF less than a third has been paid AND it is on the road.

Like I said earlier, you need to get the car moved off the road as a matter of urgency! Have you got a drive or a garage or do you know someone that has? If it's left on the road they will take it and you will end up going to court with this and more than likely they will auction off your car before anything can be resolved.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I can have the car moved off the road, and onto private property (quiet away from where I live, so they would not be able to find it).

 

Do I then tell the Repossession Company all of this, and then send off the letter to Santander (I know I did write to them on Friday and complained, and they are investigating that - however, I have not told them to get a court order for return of goods OR told them I have involved the Financial Ombudsman, who believes we do have a case) - presumbaly, Crystal Collections *will not* be happy and hound me until this is resolved (or rather, if it can be)?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it quite definitely can be resolved, all they need to do is accept your payment of the arrears and then carry on as before, simples! :madgrin:

 

I would just tell santander and crystal that the car is now on private property and will remain there until you have received the outcome of your complaint to the Ombudsman. You consider their enforcement activities to be unjustified and questionable and you will not voluntarily hand over the vehicle as long as there is a complaint in process.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have been an aboslute angel!! Thank you for you help - I will move the car immediately - and will be having a chat with Crystal tomorrow, and writing to Santander Consumer Finance tomorrow, enclosing the cheque with full arrears tomorrow as well and see what happens...

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have been an aboslute angel!! Thank you for you help - I will move the car immediately - and will be having a chat with Crystal tomorrow, and writing to Santander Consumer Finance tomorrow, enclosing the cheque with full arrears tomorrow as well and see what happens...

You are very welcome, I have the T-shirt so I know what you're going through!

 

Good for you! Well done for standing up for yourself and complaining against these bullies :whoo:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crystal is acting on their behalf, they are a car repossession company, that would sell the car on at auction and then presumably send the money onto Santander Consumer Finance.

 

That does help calm my mind - I assume it would take longer for Santander Consumer Finance to actually get the court-order for return of goods? And they would only be after both their and the Financial Ombudsman's investigations are over, which would be at least 8 weeks time.

 

The car has been moved onto a private property, a fair way away from my address - I'll call the repossession company tomorrow (wish me luck, *THAT* is not going to be a nice call) and get everything off to Santander in writing as well...

 

Again THANK YOU

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crystal is acting on their behalf, they are a car repossession company, that would sell the car on at auction and then presumably send the money onto Santander Consumer Finance.

 

That does help calm my mind - I assume it would take longer for Santander Consumer Finance to actually get the court-order for return of goods? And they would only be after both their and the Financial Ombudsman's investigations are over, which would be at least 8 weeks time.

 

The car has been moved onto a private property, a fair way away from my address - I'll call the repossession company tomorrow (wish me luck, *THAT* is not going to be a nice call) and get everything off to Santander in writing as well...

 

Again THANK YOU

I would think that crystal are just a recovery company that will collect the car and deliver it to an auction house, it'll be santander that take over from there.

 

They will need to apply for a court order to have the car removed from private property but in the course of that you will have the opportunity to defend and ask the court to grant a time order which in effect will be exactly what you are already offering - to pay off the arrears and continue with your monthly payments!! Only difference will be that they will have to go to the expense of issuing a claim and you will be able to bring their unreasonable behaviour to the court's attention when making any decision.

 

Personally I doubt if it will get that far, now that the ombudsman are involved you'll probably find they soon start back tracking!

 

You are very welcome, glad to help :madgrin:

Link to post
Share on other sites

The car was moved onto private property last night (several miles away from where I live) and I have spoken to the Repossession company and told them what is happening and that they will need a court order for the removal of goods before I hand over the car...

 

They have requested I send a copy of everything I will be posting (via recorded mail, naturally) to them as well - as a courtesy, I will do so...

 

I will keep you updated of how things pan out... I can only hope and pray I manage to salvage my car and what is left of a reputation after this!

I can only hope anyone that reads this serves as a warning of what NOT to do!

 

:|

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Right, so I sent off all the documentation and a letter to Santander Consumer Finance summarising essentially all that was said here (after moving the car onto Private Property), along with a cheque for the full amount PLUS this months payment for the car (total of £780).

 

The cheque has now been banked, and Im waiting for it to clear (I can see its due to come off my account - the funds are there so it will clear).

 

My question is now, once the cheque has officially cleared - what do I do then?

 

It would mean I have now paid over one third of the car, so I know this means they now definitely need a court order to repossess the car (although I will leave it on private property for the time being anyway).

 

Do I wait for them to send something to me in writing (I did put an addendum into my letter to them saying if they DID accept the cheque payment I would take this as proof that the agreement was still active - because they had said it was cancelled- and that the repossession order was null and void. *BUT* we all know assumption is the mother of all 'mess' ups...)

 

OR do I write them again, with the bank statement attached saying the cheque has cleared my account, could they please confirm in writing that agreement is now active again and all repossessions orders are cancelled...(this would obviously be sent recorded mail)?

 

Wannabe - your advice would definitely be appreciated :-D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, the money has definitely cleared...

 

I called Santander Consumer Finance to make sure the money had reached them etc. and they confirmed the account was now up to date and OPEN again (it was termed Cancelled when I last spoke to them), however I have recieved nothing from them in writing...

 

Any advice? I dont want to drive the car until I know this is resolved... as a by the by, with them now having accepted the arrears payment AS WELL AS this months payment, I am definitely now over 1/3 paid for the car.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, so I sent off all the documentation and a letter to Santander Consumer Finance summarising essentially all that was said here (after moving the car onto Private Property), along with a cheque for the full amount PLUS this months payment for the car (total of £780).

 

The cheque has now been banked, and Im waiting for it to clear (I can see its due to come off my account - the funds are there so it will clear).

 

My question is now, once the cheque has officially cleared - what do I do then?

 

It would mean I have now paid over one third of the car, so I know this means they now definitely need a court order to repossess the car (although I will leave it on private property for the time being anyway).

 

Do I wait for them to send something to me in writing (I did put an addendum into my letter to them saying if they DID accept the cheque payment I would take this as proof that the agreement was still active - because they had said it was cancelled- and that the repossession order was null and void. *BUT* we all know assumption is the mother of all 'mess' ups...)

 

OR do I write them again, with the bank statement attached saying the cheque has cleared my account, could they please confirm in writing that agreement is now active again and all repossessions orders are cancelled...(this would obviously be sent recorded mail)?

 

Wannabe - your advice would definitely be appreciated :-D

Hello Daniela, sorry for the delay I'm a bit poorly at the mo :-(

 

I think you've done brilliantly so far, well done! 8)

 

The fact that they've cashed your cheque weighs very heavily in your favour. So basically the position you are in right now is that they sent you a default notice but you are now fully paid up to date on your agreement. In order for them to be able to repo the car you would need to be in arrears by 2 payments and defaulted again, they can't take it now irrelevant of how much has been paid! :wink:

 

They absolutely cannot continue to use the previous default as it is now wholly invalid and if they do repo now they would be in serious doodoo :lol:

 

If I were you I would just continue your payments and act as if nothing had ever happened. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't use your car, in fact I'd actively encourage it cos if it goes missing now you'd have a load of mud to sling and they would end up owing you rather a lot of money!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...