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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Can I sue the individual and not the company to recover a debt?


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Is it possible to sue the individual of a company without suing the company itself to recover money owed? The company in question have ceased trading due to debts and no doubt the company will have no assets.

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This is dependant on whether the company was limited, in which case the answer in MOST CASES is no.

 

However, if the company was run by a sole trader you may have a slight chance, however if this was the case and has now ceased trading, success would be dependant on the level of assets of the comapny owner and of course the number of priority debts or secured debts outstanding.

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The company is Ltd. I've successfully lodged an objection with Companies House to prevent the company from dissolving at least on their register. Will this improve my chances of recovering the money?

 

(Not sure it is wise to disclose the name of the company online)

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The company is Ltd. I've successfully lodged an objection with Companies House to prevent the company from dissolving at least on their register. Will this improve my chances of recovering the money?

 

(Not sure it is wise to disclose the name of the company online)

 

 

 

 

Is the money owed for goods/services supplied to them or a loan?

 

Unless the Directors have been acting unlawfully you cannot touch them, that's the whole point of a limited company!

 

Sorry, but I don't fancy your chances.

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The money owing is the deposit which the agent collected directly from the tenant but failed to give to the Deposit Protection Scheme. I've since paid the DPS the money so my tenant's money is safe, but of course I want the money back from the agent.

 

Surely the company/director has acted unlawfully here?

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It would seem so. Do you know if the company is subject to any kind of insolvency proceedings? If the company is placed into administration or creditors' voluntary liquidation, the appointed liquidators are obliged to prepare a report on the conduct of the directors and lodge it with DBIS (the former DTI) within 6 months of their appointment. Queries such as yours would be dealt with under such a report. However, please be advised that these reports are 100% confidential between the administrator / liquidator and DBIS - the outcome is never divulged.

 

If someone petitions for the company to be wound up (a compulsory liquidation via the courts which can take up to 4 months or longer to occur) the Official Receiver ("OR") will be appointed and he will deal with issues relating to the directors' conduct. If there are potential assets the OR will hand the case to an appointed liquidator, if not, it will be dealt with by the OR's office.

 

Hope this is of some assistance!

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I'm going to call the IPA tomorrow to find out if one of their members has been appointed. I don't know if it's a legal requirement for a company to employ one so I guess if not, there won't be one. But I need to find out.

 

I will contact the DBIS tomorrow and see what they advise.

 

I think even if I don't get the money back, the least I can do is report this con artist to the relevant authorities to reduce the chances of him doing something like this again.

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Insolvency Practitioners are regulated under other bodies too, so your best bet is to keep monitoring Companies House (liquidators / administrators are obliged to file notice of their appointment with Companies House.

 

If a company is insolvent an accountant will normally advise a director to seek the advice of an IP - it's not a legal requirement for a company to employ an IP but if an accountant has advised them that they are trading insolvently a director would do well to act on this advice.

 

I am not certain that DBIS will be able to act until a formal insolvency procedure has begun, and even then they would not speak to anyone about their findings.

 

The director should have your details if you are a creditor, so chances are if he has contacted an IP you will be contacted anyway.

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I'm not holding my breath for a letter from an IP. Although I know that their business account is still active and Companies House have agreed to keep their business active on record, a full six months have passed since the company stopped real trading and in the last few weeks, the company has removed its website, cut its telephone lines and closed down its emails accounts. They never answer their mobile. It's quite clear they want no contact.

 

After doing some more research, I've discovered that the agency snatched my tenant's deposit at the same time they had already taken action to wind down their business. I did some enquiries with Prime Location, Right Move and other advertising outlets who told me the company had stopped paying their subscriptions at the beginning of the year. Does this suggest that the the company were 'trading' at a time they were insolvent. Is this in itself unlawful?

 

I wish I could find a way to sue the individual or even a way to penetrate the so called veil of incorporation.

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If they were your agents and collecting the monies on your behalf I think that they are s'posed to keep it "on trust" for you. Ie, you would get first dibs on the money rather than having it shared out to all the creditors. I would definitely write to the insolvency practicioner (if there is one) to stake your claim.

 

If they were taking money when they knew they were going insolvent then I think this is "wrongful trading". You need to check the insolvency act and the offences a director can be personnally accountable for.

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I know for a fact that this company definitely pulled the plug on their advertising with the major rental portals at the same time they took the money from the tenant.

 

Even with this evidence of wrongful trading, how can the directors of this company be brought to account if their defunct company has no assets?

 

I'll have a look at the insolvency act.

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  • 1 year later...
I know for a fact that this company definitely pulled the plug on their advertising with the major rental portals at the same time they took the money from the tenant.

 

Even with this evidence of wrongful trading, how can the directors of this company be brought to account if their defunct company has no assets?

 

I'll have a look at the insolvency act.

 

I have come very late to this thread. Exactly the same thing has happened to me. I want to sue a company because of illegal actions by one of the diractors. The civil court has ruled in my favour that the company owes me the money but of course the company ( with its sole director ) have not paid up. I am in the process of getting my solicitors to issue a winding up petition and I am hoping the official receiver will identify the director as having acted illegally. I have also been to the police but they are not interested in persuing the director because they tell me it is in the hands of the civil courts and they are not debt collectors. My case sounds very similar to yours. He was the dirsctor of a property management compant who kept the deposits and rent from my tenants. Can you let me know how you have got on with your case. ( It may even be the same man we are talking about )

 

Kevin Jones

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Thanks for your message. You're wondering if we're dealing with the same person. Is the director's first initial 'F'?

 

No. Afraid not. The limited company is a property management company registered in Bolton. They have one director. I would love to get to him but it seems things are stacked in his favour by the corporation veil. I am hoping that when the winding up petition is agreed, the official receiver will take things further. To be honest, the money I lost is not the big issue. The main thing that gets my goat is how he seems to be getting away with criminal actions when he is a nasty little fraudster. I have almost made it my mission now to make life difficult for him in the future even if I end up out of pocket. I was just struck by how similar your story was to mine and I am desperate to know if you got anywhere with suing the person who defrauded you.

 

Kevin

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I got my money back after a colleague in the company decided to pay off the debt. I was lucky because the chap in charge had no intention of settling up and disappeared. Your best bet is to contact the local trading standards and council where the company was originally set up (not where you live). They may have a case against him for fraud. This was the case with the chap who ripped me off. You won't get your money back but you can potentially help to expose the man behind this bogus property management company.

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