Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

[diddydicky]

does anyone know the bank details for moorcroft so i am able to set up a standing order with them. I have phoned but they want all sorts of information which i dont want to give them.

 

i would write and ask for the information- tell them that until such time as they supply the information necessary for you to set up a standing order- you will make the payments into a separate account and pay them over to them as soon as the standing order is set up

 

alternatively they may send you a paying in book (which will have their bank details on it!)

 

they would find it difficult to suggest you are not paying if they wont give you the means to do so

[diddydicky]

Hi Dicky

 

Just got letter ,natwest are not chasing the balance anymore.

 

result!

[diddydicky]

The Information Commissioners contact details are here:

Information Commissioner's Office - ICO

 

You need to write in with your complaint.

 

I suggest you also contact Santander & point out that (a) they have breached DPA & (b) they are in default of your S77/78 request under CCA1974 & that you expect them to comply within 7 days.

 

No rush to make a complaint, why not keep quiet and let them terminate and then take you to court- then argue that the court proceedings were unlawful due to their failure to comply with s78

 

when they say that they have sent you the agreement and made a statement confirming that what they sent you is your agreement (so therefore must be the same agreement that they produce in support of their claim) , you can deny that the documents sent to you are sufficient to give rise to a claim as they bear no reference to you (in fact someone else) ask for the case to be struck out and apply for costs

[diddydicky]

I have finally recieved a reply from the cca request to Link. I have sent the SAR to mbna but nothing yet. I sent the cca request to Link months ago. They have sent the cca it is for Abbey MBNA card from 2002. It is signed and dated and it does say on the front page about "a summary of the Financial & Related Conditions for each product is set out overleaf". I have uploaded the front and back of the cca. The writing is so small but I wonder if its enforceable?

 

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Daxknight/img181.jpg

 

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/Daxknight/img180.jpg

 

at a guess from what i can see i'd say "not in a million years"

 

its not even headed as a regulated agreement!!

[diddydicky]

simply

 

where a fully executable agreement exists and is not disputed- the reporting of information to CRA's is not considered enforcement

 

the judge made it clear that this was a very narrow case and the judgement could well be different in different circumstances

 

so UNLESS you have a valid agreement and are seeking to have your credit record expunged- it means diddly squat!

[diddydicky]

Hi There,

 

I am new to this site and have seen a lot of useful information to other users so i have joined in hope of help.

 

I am being chased by Phoneix Commercial OCllections.

 

I had council tax arrears of £785.12 so the Phonexi Bayliff attended my property and I paid him £245.12 leaving me with a balance of £540.00 to be paid in 3 installments of £180.00 at the end of August, September and October.

 

I paid my August payment on the 02nd September and my October payment on the 06th October.

 

When I reached home today (28-10-2009) I had a letter demanding an immideate payment of £400.00 other wise he will enter they will be forced to enter the property tomorrow (29-10-2009) with a locksmith and a policeman to gain entry intot he property.

 

I called the person named on the letter at 09:00 pm and queried the charge which was brokern as follows:

 

£180.00 owed + £10.00 brokern arrangement fee and £210 cost of the bayliff visit.

 

He asked me to pay before 09:00 am the next day and when I said I could raise the funds he threatened to remove the goods. I finally paid him the £400 and the £5 for using a debit card.

 

My questions are

 

1. are his fees legal?

2. Is he within his rights to give me a 12 hour deadline

3. are his threats real?

 

Thanks for your help (in advance)

 

i would start a new thread- that way you'll get more help use pheonix in the title that way you'll attract others with dealings with them

[diddydicky]

did the bailiff enter the property on any previous visits?

 

theres no such thing as a "broken arrangement fee"

 

ask for a breakdown of the bailiffs fee

 

there will be an attendance allowance and a van fee probably- i'm out of date with teh actual charges but you can chekc with the council as most of them stipulate what the bailiffs acting on their behalf may charge

 

if he has already entered and done an inventory (walking possession order) then his threats are very real and yes- he can demand that you pay him "on the spot"

[diddydicky]

IMO what you have here is a copy of the "cancellation notice" which is referred to in the box next to your signature in the original agreementand which is normally sent to the customer within 7 days explaining how they may cancel

 

write and thank them for it, pointing out that you had never received this document before but you believe it to be the details to a customer as to how to cancel- and ask them if they could now respond to your s78 request and send you a true copy of the executed agreement

[diddydicky]

if it is statute barred then you cant shoot any holes in it because it no longer exists,

 

the 6 years from SB does not start from the date of the agreement but the date of the last payment made to the account or your last written acknowledgment of the debt

[diddydicky]

which is VERY unusual because this is the type of document that it printed off in the bank and you normally sign in there and then with their staff as a witness and then take your copies with you

 

did you keep the envelopes?

[diddydicky]

Hi shadow, both cards were applied in Jan 06 and like I said earlier we were sent applications forms for a credit card which we duly filled in and returned, then shortly after received our cards.

 

Hopefully when I receive my S.A.R then I will have a better picture of things.

 

as shadow has said on line agreements will be notoriously difficult to challenge

[diddydicky]

in post 1038 you said that you might have applied online

 

you need to be VERY clear on this before you create a stink

[diddydicky]

Can I just ask what difference do online applications make?

 

I have a Lloyds TSB Mastercard from 2004, which has PPI added.

 

All it is, is a tick in a box, reading `Do you require Payment Protection?`

 

Nothing else, just that line and a tick.

 

There is no reference anywhere as to how much the PPI costs, and no other documents were supplied.

 

This is currently with Morecrap DR, but has been around 2,364,489 DCA`s and SC&M.

 

 

 

N.P

 

you need to read some of the threads relating to online applications

 

I have no such agreements myself so not able to give too much advice but i have read that it is much more difficult to argue that you have not see n the T & C's

[diddydicky]

the missing word would (IMO) be a de minimus issue

[diddydicky]

Hello, I am new to the forum and in the early stages of requesting credit agreements from creditors. Most of our debts are prior to 2004 and have been sold onto DCA's. I have recieved a couple of letters back, as follows:

Amex Green Charge Card - pre approved Application

NatWest - CC App Form

 

both are signed but neither specify APR, repayments etc. Although NatWest have included a copy of the booklet the application was attached to which highlights examples of credit limit and repayments etc.

 

Is an application form the same as a credit agreement?

All help will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

 

you need to start a new thread - then you will get advice

 

an application form, if it contains the prescribed terms and at least the debtors signature can be a valid agreement yes

[diddydicky]

a SAR will not necessarily get you anymore than the s78 request since a SAR does not oblige a creditor to send you a copy of the agreement (if only it were that simple)

 

a s78 requires them to send

 

a true copy of the executed agreement together with any other document referred to in it

 

copies of any amendments or variations of the agreement (they cannot send you the latest agreement without also sending the oiginal)

 

a signed statement of account.

 

The documents must be "easily legible"

 

the agreement can (if the creditor wishes ) OMIT the signatures signature boxes and dates and any information which has no bearing on the agreement (internal company references etc)

 

the creditor may "reconstitute" the agreement from other records but it must still be a "true" copy of the original and must tell you that it is a re construction

 

A SAR is useful to check the issue/dates of default notices and assignments and other activity on the account- which is usually BEST left until after proceedings have been issued against you

 

A creditor is only obliged to give you the INFPORMATION he holds about you which does not extend to providing actual copies of documents that the information is contained on or in

[diddydicky]

a reconstructed agreement would satify a section 77 to 79 request but the original is still need in court.

 

SNAP

 

the original agreement SHOULD be produced in court- subtle but important difference which causes problems in some courts

 

the game plan should always be to cause sufficient doubt about it that you can ask the court to order that it SHALL(must) be produced to the court

[diddydicky]

a s78 requires them to send

 

I would write back and suggest that a set of generic terms and conditions which bears no reference to you whatsoever is not compliance with s78

 

I would remind them what they have to supply

 

a true copy of the executed agreement together with any other document referred to in it

 

copies of any amendments or variations of the agreement (they cannot send you the latest agreement without also sending the oiginal)

 

a signed statement of account.

 

i would ask them to confirm , as per OFT guidelines, whether they have the original executed agreement and if not, what has happened to it

[diddydicky]

Hi,

 

Thanks very much for that, I will certainly do that today and see if I can catch the postman.

What you say certainly makes sense. Let's see what they will come up with next, although I don't think it will be a copy of the signed agreement after having been sent a CCA and a letter stating the debt was now in dispute because they were in default. Let's see . . . .

Thanks diddy!!

regards

DoubleU

 

make sure you get proof of posting slips signed for all letters posted and always keep and staple the envelopes to the back of inbound mail

[diddydicky]

if they have stated in writing that they do not have the original agreement- then that is the end of it (as far as legally enforcing the agreement is concerned)

 

however- you still OWE them the debt (assuming there are no counter claims for unlawful charges, interest ppi etc)

 

there is nothing stopping them from chasing you for payment- they just cant legally enforce the debt

 

IMO the best way to deal with this is along these lines (to any debt collector that contacts you)

 

dear Sirs

 

Re your reference XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Your client has acknowledged that they do not have a properly signed and/or legally enforceable credit agreement.

 

until such time as your client provides me with a true copy of a properly executed and/or legally enforceable credit agreement , together with copies of any other documents referred to within that agreement AND copies of any amended or varied agreements and in a form that is Easily legible, i will not communicate further in this matter

 

In short, your client must either now "Put up" or "shut up"

 

all further correspondence of a circular nature will be filed unanswered

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

XXX

[diddydicky]

I have been asked this:-

 

Hi Diddy

I know it seems to be a commonly accepted argument that without an original CCA there is no legal enforcement, do you have any statute to confirm this?

 

if only, if only

 

the architects of the consumer credit act created confusion when none ought to haev existed by stating that " the original SHOULD" be produced in court

 

IF ONLY "should" would have been written as "shall" all our troubles would be over!!

[diddydicky]

do bears sh*t in the woods?

[diddydicky]

That's CPR, rather than the CCA, in'nit?

 

ahh you have spotted my deliberate mistake- you have passed!!

[diddydicky]

ahhhhhhh yess brings back memories of short trousers and wee running dowm my leg as the local village bobby clipped me around the ear for throwing stones at the street lights!!

[diddydicky]

a little oversimplified but yes they can "reconstruct" (not "construct") an agreement but it is frought with pitfalls and not as easy as they would have you beleive