un1boy - N1 issued for breach of CCA request

[un1boy]

Not me, sorry. None of my creditors has dared set foot near a court room.

 

Someone will be along soon to advise.

 

How many have ou had settled and at what point? What types of claims were they?

[Alphageek]

Claims for unlawful charges refunds with CCI, default removal and late markers.

 

Barclaycard and Capital One took it all the way to Court Bundle stage then folded. GE Capital Woodchester (GE Capital Bank) folded after allocation.

 

MBNA folded at LBA stage! Who knows why?!?

 

I have just requested judgment against Amex after they failed to respond to my Part20 counterclaim.

 

Littlewoods are at LBA stage as are Yorkshire Bank Credit Card. Issuing N1s in about 9 days.

 

Sainsburys Bank Credit Card: Just started with them. CCA stage. About to or just gone over the 12+2.

[un1boy]

Wow Alpha, sounds like you're doing well?! Well done matey!

[pt2537]

do you have their bundle of docs yet?

 

What was it that you wanted to know? i will do my best to answer mate if you let me know

[un1boy]

Thanks.

 

I have their bundle- nothing in it except bank statements, copy of the credit agreement nothing for the OD aaccount), letters I sent them, letters they sent me and some court orders.

 

There are no case law, no acts ot anything like that.

 

I don't understand how they can use it to argue I owe them the money.

 

On top of that, today I receive their index in the post, along with a schedule of costs - totalling 6k.

 

I didn't think they could be awarded this?

 

I just wondered really what sort of format the trial would take, and what sort of wuestions I could be asked?

[pt2537]

Hi,

 

Costs of 6K? depends on the level or grade of fee earner who was working on the case and how many units they took up. 6K is possible i can tell you for sure.

 

The hearing will be judge in chambers and you and the other side will sit around a table in a rather informal setting, the judge will open the hearing and will most likely make reference to your claim or may invite you to give an outline of your case

 

the other side will be allowed to comment accordingly and then from there, i cant tell you what will happen, it depends upon a number of factors

 

as for questions, i really couldnt tell you, it really will depend on how clued the judge is, how clued up the other sides counsel is etc as to what they ask

 

Make sure you have copies of ALL the case law you will rely upon and you will only be able to talk about pleaded matters so dont try to introduce new arguments at the hearing as the judge wont allow it

[un1boy]

Hi,

 

Costs of 6K? depends on the level or grade of fee earner who was working on the case and how many units they took up. 6K is possible i can tell you for sure.

 

The hearing will be judge in chambers and you and the other side will sit around a table in a rather informal setting, the judge will open the hearing and will most likely make reference to your claim or may invite you to give an outline of your case

 

the other side will be allowed to comment accordingly and then from there, i cant tell you what will happen, it depends upon a number of factors

 

as for questions, i really couldnt tell you, it really will depend on how clued the judge is, how clued up the other sides counsel is etc as to what they ask

 

Make sure you have copies of ALL the case law you will rely upon and you will only be able to talk about pleaded matters so dont try to introduce new arguments at the hearing as the judge wont allow it

 

Thanks mate.

 

I'll have to submit my costs to them too, eh?

 

I submitted my skelton arguments as part of my bundle, pretty much covers all my pleaded matters so that's not too bad.

 

I am just nervous, that's all.....but hopefully, all should be over by this time next week!!

 

What will happen re costs - I thought costs couldn't be awarded in the small claims court?!!

[tinkerbell20]

Thanks mate.

 

I'll have to submit my costs to them too, eh?

 

I submitted my skelton arguments as part of my bundle, pretty much covers all my pleaded matters so that's not too bad.

 

I am just nervous, that's all.....but hopefully, all should be over by this time next week!!

 

What will happen re costs - I thought costs couldn't be awarded in the small claims court?!!

 

 

They can't normally so guess the other side are just trying to intimidate you. I would take satisfaction in how much it is allegedly costing them.......................

[un1boy]

They can't normally so guess the other side are just trying to intimidate you. I would take satisfaction in how much it is allegedly costing them.......................

 

Yeh, I know. It's just that this is the scary part, lol......

[car2403]

Thanks mate.

 

I'll have to submit my costs to them too, eh?

 

I submitted my skelton arguments as part of my bundle, pretty much covers all my pleaded matters so that's not too bad.

 

I am just nervous, that's all.....but hopefully, all should be over by this time next week!!

 

What will happen re costs - I thought costs couldn't be awarded in the small claims court?!!

 

Definately submit your schedule of costs - you're as unlikely to get them as they are, but the Judge may award you something if you can show what you have actually had to incurred in dealing with the case and they behave unreasonably during it.

 

Costs are limited in the small claims track, (check out Part 27; http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part27.htm) but you can claim disbursements and £9.25 at the litigant in person rate, if the Judge allows it;

 

CPR Part 48.6(4)(b) and Practice Direction 52.4;

 

CPR 48.6(4)(b);

where the litigant cannot prove financial loss, an amount for the time reasonably spent on doing the work at the rate set out in the practice direction

 

SECTION 52 LITIGANTS IN PERSON: RULE 48.6...

52.4 The amount, which may be allowed to a litigant in person under rule 46.3(5)(b) and rule 48.6(4), is £9.25 per hour.

 

They can't normally so guess the other side are just trying to intimidate you. I would take satisfaction in how much it is allegedly costing them.......................

 

Yeh, I know. It's just that this is the scary part, lol......

 

It probably isn't costing them anything near - most use in house solicitors, or intermediaries, who farm the work out for near to nothing. This is definately intimidatory tactics, so you need to make the Judge aware of that. Incidentally, is the schedule of costs letter they've supplied "without prejudice"? If not, take it to court to show the Judge.

[un1boy]

Definately submit your schedule of costs - you're as unlikely to get them as they are, but the Judge may award you something if you can show what you have actually had to incurred in dealing with the case and they behave unreasonably during it.

 

Costs are limited in the small claims track, (check out Part 27; http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part27.htm) but you can claim disbursements and £9.25 at the litigant in person rate, if the Judge allows it;

 

CPR Part 48.6(4)(b) and Practice Direction 52.4;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It probably isn't costing them anything near - most use in house solicitors, or intermediaries, who farm the work out for near to nothing. This is definately intimidatory tactics, so you need to make the Judge aware of that. Incidentally, is the schedule of costs letter they've supplied "without prejudice"? If not, take it to court to show the Judge.

 

Hiya,

 

Thanks for this. Their statement of costs is on an official court document, so I guess the Judge will see - but I'll take it anyway.

 

I'll do mine tomorrow.

 

I just do not understand how they intend to argue their case when they have provided nothing of substance (in terms of Acts of law etc) to support their case, or their counterclaim.

 

In fact, they submitted nothing in their bundle re their counterclaim, only letters I had sent, my POCs, defence and a copy of the agreement (with no prescribed terms!)

 

I also find it shocking that, as CCA holders, they have allowed the case to go this far knowing that the agreement has no prescribed terms - the OFT do not even give a crap either, which is even worse!

[un1boy]

do you want to see their schedule of costs? I'll PM you it, if you like?

[un1boy]

Should I submit my schedule of costs on a particular form - like they have?

 

They have, apparently, spent a total of 45.1 hours on both claims, between 1 grade A and 1 grade B solicitor.........yet, all they have done is produced a court bundle with copy statements and letters in it - no arguments, no acts of law or anything.

 

Should I have been supplied with an idea of their arguments?

[un1boy]

they have a heading called "pleadings/statement of case" which has my claim form, acknowledgement of service, judgment, application notices, orders, defence and counterclaim, notice of application and hearing, defence to counterclaim, allocation questionnaires and notice of defence.

 

How is that a statement of their case?

[car2403]

This sounds like a mind game - they are hoping you'll fold first.

 

From what you've said, they haven't submitted anything that has been that they can rely on, but have they failed to comply with the Court order?

[un1boy]

This sounds like a mind game - they are hoping you'll fold first.

 

From what you've said, they haven't submitted anything that has been that they can rely on, but have they failed to comply with the Court order?

 

Well, they haven't failed to comply with this order- but they did every other one.

 

After clogging up one of the claims for 5 months asking for them ot be consolidated, their request was dismissed and they were given 7 days to enter a defence - they entered it on the 8th day - i put in a judgement request but the court wouldnt honour it because I had asked for the removal of the default on the cash form, and I was told that I should have used another form!! grrrr.....

 

They have not however provided anything of substance - apart from a letter from the FOS saying that I owe the money (which also says they dont take into account law), other than that they have entered nothing aprt from statements and various letters from re bank charges and some letters re the beginning of the claim requesting the CCA and default notice (which they never supplied)

 

So, I guess we'll just have to see....I am a bit worried about the trial because I have not been furnished with any substansive information as to their statement of cdase or pleadings, so have no idea how to react.

[un1boy]

I have received an email today (well, tonight) with their skeleton arguments - the hearing is TOMORROW!!!!

 

Hoe the hell am I meant to prepare for that?

 

apparently, they reckon that I waived my rights under tha CCA by admitting the debt(s) and making payments.

 

They also say that wilson v FCT does not apply because it did not include section 127.

[un1boy]

They have also emailed me another document relating to the overdraft but admitted that although it was referred to in their defence, it was not in their bundle - are they allowed to reply on this?

 

I am crapping myself.

[pt2537]

I have received an email today (well, tonight) with their skeleton arguments - the hearing is TOMORROW!!!!

 

Hoe the hell am I meant to prepare for that?

 

apparently, they reckon that I waived my rights under tha CCA by admitting the debt(s) and making payments. NONSENSE

 

They also say that wilson v FCT does not apply because it did not include section 127. ERM how do they work that out? Wilson and FCT doesnt apply TO WHAT exactley???

Hi Un1boy,

 

it would be helpful if you could let us know why they think the FCT case doesnt apply

[un1boy]

Thanks PT - do you want me to post their argument?

[pt2537]

probably not a good idea to post it in the open forum at this stage as the hearing is tomorrow

 

can you summarise it at all?

[un1boy]

They say that s127 is not engaged in the wilson case mate

[un1boy]

probably not a good idea to post it in the open forum at this stage as the hearing is tomorrow

 

can you summarise it at all?

 

Errr...they go about how the CCA agreement is enforcable because I waived my rights by admitting the debt and paying them and because the agreement that I signed says "I agree to be bound by the terms and conditions"

 

Also, they allege that because they can prove a default notice was sent (although not what it looks like) then they have complied with secs 88 etc.

 

They also said that if this is not the case, they can just re-default the accounts and because I made a payment arragnement I must have received the default notice (not likely - you just get letters from DCA's)

 

Other than that, it's a load of old drivle really.

 

They also say that with regards to the OD, they have supplied the T&C's on a certain date.

 

(the fact with that is that the actual overdraft defaulted was completelty different and they havent even mentioned that)

[un1boy]

They have said that the agreement is enforcbal because section 127 only applies whilst they are in default of providing the docs after certain times under sec 78

[un1boy]

Here's some other bits:

un1boy seems to suggest that there was a failure to comply with s.61(1)(a) CCA (signing of agreements), as result of which the bank is precluded from seeking to enforce the agreement by operation of the restriction placed on this Court’s powers under s.65(1) CCA by s.127(3).

· If un1boy is suggesting that the credit card agreement is improperly executed, he is put to strict proof of the same

· the bank will contend that the requirements of s.61(1)(a) CCA were clearly satisfied: the signature page atstates that “I have read and agree to be bound by the Terms and Conditions attached”.

· The agreement was properly executed, therefore.

· If, contrary to this submission, it was not properly executed for some other reason (and un1boy) pleads no other basis for improper execution), then this Court would not be precluded from enforcing it under s.65(1) CCA if an application under s.127 CCA were to be brought by un1boy.