Help! I damaged my car on Garage property, but I feel it's the garage's fault!

[sophes]

Hello!

I felt incredibly stupid when this incident happened but I've had time to mull it over.

Let me start from the beginning.

 

I've gone to the same garage for my MOT for the past three years and have always been happy with their service/attitude/fees. I'm 25 years old, female, and have only been driving for four years. As I'm sure many people do, I consider myself a good, safe, and careful driver.

The garage in question is situation on a main road. Their car park, up to February 2007, was walled off by a waist-high brick wall, and is rather small. The entrance to the car park is small enough to fit only one car and there is no path/walkway between the car park and busy main road, and is on a slight gradient.

 

I took my car for an MOT on 30th March 2007, and I was their last appointment. The wall in question had been half demolished around the entrance/exit area and was now only 9 inches high (approximately)

Upon completion of my successful MOT, and a bit of careful reversing/maneuvering of my car I attempted to exit the car park, down the slight gradient to join the main road. However, as I moved my car into a safe position to creep down the slope towards the road to turn left the newly, and ROUGHLY, knocked down wall met the underside of my passenger door and pierced the sill and door. I hadn't realised how close the wall was as it was quite considerably below eye-level now.

 

I swore (sorry!), reversed slightly back up the slope and got out to check the damage. It's quite considerable and has pierced the metal of the door at the bottom.

A mechanic came out of the garage, asked me if I was okay and said "you're not the first" and "quite bad that innit?". I just said yes, welled up, got in my car and drove off.

 

6 weeks later the wall in question has been levelled (more professionally) and a bollard put in place where my car door made abrupt contact with the wall.

 

I've had the damage checked out and been quoted £300-£400 to repair both the sill and door and sprayed to match the car.

I want to know if anyone can tell me if it's worth writing to the garage and asking for them to either pay for the damage or contribute towards the fees (they only repair, not body work) or something. I'm terrible at dealing with people face to face and would just get it wrong.

 

I know I was driving but the wall was not in a fantastic state to be left in.

 

Can anyone give me any advice?

[dw190]

Hello!

I felt incredibly stupid when this incident happened but I've had time to mull it over.

Let me start from the beginning.

 

I've gone to the same garage for my MOT for the past three years and have always been happy with their service/attitude/fees. I'm 25 years old, female, and have only been driving for four years. As I'm sure many people do, I consider myself a good, safe, and careful driver.

The garage in question is situation on a main road. Their car park, up to February 2007, was walled off by a waist-high brick wall, and is rather small. The entrance to the car park is small enough to fit only one car and there is no path/walkway between the car park and busy main road, and is on a slight gradient.

 

I took my car for an MOT on 30th March 2007, and I was their last appointment. The wall in question had been half demolished around the entrance/exit area and was now only 9 inches high (approximately)

Upon completion of my successful MOT, and a bit of careful reversing/maneuvering of my car I attempted to exit the car park, down the slight gradient to join the main road. However, as I moved my car into a safe position to creep down the slope towards the road to turn left the newly, and ROUGHLY, knocked down wall met the underside of my passenger door and pierced the sill and door. I hadn't realised how close the wall was as it was quite considerably below eye-level now.

 

I swore (sorry!), reversed slightly back up the slope and got out to check the damage. It's quite considerable and has pierced the metal of the door at the bottom.

A mechanic came out of the garage, asked me if I was okay and said "you're not the first" and "quite bad that innit?". I just said yes, welled up, got in my car and drove off.

 

6 weeks later the wall in question has been levelled (more professionally) and a bollard put in place where my car door made abrupt contact with the wall.

 

I've had the damage checked out and been quoted £300-£400 to repair both the sill and door and sprayed to match the car.

I want to know if anyone can tell me if it's worth writing to the garage and asking for them to either pay for the damage or contribute towards the fees (they only repair, not body work) or something. I'm terrible at dealing with people face to face and would just get it wrong.

 

I know I was driving but the wall was not in a fantastic state to be left in.

 

Can anyone give me any advice?

 

The garage could technically ask you to contribute to the cost of repairing their wall but I doubt they will.

 

It is a good thing that an MOT garage doesn't do repairs as there is no incentive for them to fail vehicles to get repair work.

 

As a regular at the garage it would not do any harm say you have been quoted £300 and do they have any contacts or have any of their staff got the equipmmet to do the job for you at a better price.

[PKea]

I'm sorry to say that i dont think the gargae can be held liable and probably wont give you a penny.

Maybe, as your use them reguraly, you could get them to give you a free service as gesture of goodwill.

Basically you weren't looking good enough, sorry to see, but thats the main fact, not the state of the wall.

YOu already said that you kne there was a wall there anyway.

 

Sorry iof this isn't what you wanted to hear, but thats my opinion.

Someone else may have another way round it.

 

Good Luck and welcome to the Forum

 

Paul

[sophes]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I kind of want to broach the subject of the garage paying for the damage completely. The wall has since been completely removed and properly flattened, which I think they were part way through when I drove into it. (No walls were injured during this incident).

But I don't know how to ask for them to pay for the repairs or whether other people would consider asking the same thing!

[PKea]

If a car drove into your wall, would you pay the driver for their damage.

 

You effectively drove into the wall, the garages wall didnt drive into you.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but i dont think you will get anywhere asking the garage to pay in full.

 

If the garage does a good service, i would ask for a gesture of goodwill, and therefore keep the relation good with the garage.

 

It can be hard to find a garage that you can trust.

 

Paul

[patdavies]

If a car drove into your wall, would you pay the driver for their damage.

 

You effectively drove into the wall, the garages wall didnt drive into you.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but i dont think you will get anywhere asking the garage to pay in full.

 

 

I'm not quite so sure.

 

This comment

 

A mechanic came out of the garage, asked me if I was okay and said "you're not the first" and "quite bad that innit?".

 

would imply that the garage were aware of the danger and did nothing to mitigate the hazard (In fact, they did so later by levelling the wall completely and professionally).

 

Whilst I accept that a prudent driver should not have collided with the wall, the fact remains that unless you were specifically warned then some liability may attach to the garage for having such a hazard without warning or mitigation. In short, they may have failed in their duty of care. If somebody in the garage had said "Watch out for the end of the wall", then they would be in the clear. As it was, there was hidden (as in out of sight) hazard.

[PKea]

Pat,

I respect your comments and advice inthis and many other posts,

but in this case i cant see any mileage in this case (pardon the pun).

The mechanic could have been refering to the car who actually knocked the wall down in the first place and was trying to make light of the incident.

 

Paul

[sophes]

Thank-you! That's what I had in my head, but couldn't put it into words. Is there any chance you could help me compose an un-arsey letter to the garage putting the above into use? I'd really appreciate your help.

I just cannot afford the repairs to my car but the damage is unsightly and would need to be repaired before the winter to avoid further damage to the exposed dent/hole!

 

Any help you can throw at me is much appreciated!

[sophes]

the wall hadn't been knocked down by a car. it had been knocked down (roughly) by the garage's instruction to make entering and exiting their car park more accessible. as the work was part-way through being completed and very rough the wall was no longer in clear sight of drivers. since my accident it's been completed and levelled.

[PKea]

the wall hadn't been knocked down by a car. it had been knocked down (roughly) by the garage's instruction to make entering and exiting their car park more accessible. as the work was part-way through being completed and very rough the wall was no longer in clear sight of drivers. since my accident it's been completed and levelled.

 

thats casts a different light on the subject, i presumed it had been hit by a car

If they are ongoing works they have a duty to make sure the area is safe and warning signs are displayed

 

Paul

[patdavies]

thats casts a different light on the subject, i presumed it had been hit by a car

If they are ongoing works they have a duty to make sure the area is safe and warning signs are displayed

 

Paul

 

Exactly.

 

The H&S regs (CDM) are very strict about site safety. If work was being undertaken - especially demolition work - there is a duty on the contractor to ensure that the works are safe and this would normally require them to exclude unauthorised persons from the work area.

 

IOW, if demolition work was being undertaken, you should not have been able to get your car near enough to damage it.

[sophes]

I wouldn't call it demolition. there were no contractors at the time, it's a car park literally 30 feet square. more like work in progress with no workers!

how shall I put it to the garage?

[borisbeaver]

Did you enter the garage through this access point. If so, you should have noticed the state of the wall.

 

You'll probably get no-where with trying to claim any compensation. Especially if you drove in through it.

[sophes]

Yes, there is only one entrance/exit.

I don't want to claim compensation, I want someone to help me word a letter asking for them to contribute/pay the repairs and why I think it's their fault.

Not gonna get all 'legal' on their ass!

[patdavies]

I wouldn't call it demolition. there were no contractors at the time, it's a car park literally 30 feet square. more like work in progress with no workers!

 

I would - certainly within the meaning of the Regs.

 

it had been knocked down (roughly) by the garage's instruction to make entering and exiting their car park more accessible. as the work was part-way through being completed and very rough the wall was no longer in clear sight of drivers.

[sophes]

Thanks patdavies.

Can you tell me how I should word it?

[Guest ArthurP]

Exactly.

 

The H&S regs (CDM) are very strict about site safety. If work was being undertaken - especially demolition work - there is a duty on the contractor to ensure that the works are safe and this would normally require them to exclude unauthorised persons from the work area.

 

IOW, if demolition work was being undertaken, you should not have been able to get your car near enough to damage it.

 

I don't agree with the above.

 

Whether the wall was 2 inches or 20 foot the fact remains it is a wall on the garages property and the OP bumped into it.

 

The garage may just say they wanted to keep a low wall for a boundry marking but decided to knock it all down because a customer (the OP) part demolished it.

 

Would I drive a LWB van into a garage who's roof wasn't high enough for me to do so?

 

And if I did should the garage pay for the obvious damage due to my driving judgement?

[patdavies]

Would I drive a LWB van into a garage who's roof wasn't high enough for me to do so?

 

And if I did should the garage pay for the obvious damage due to my driving judgement?

 

You miss the point.

 

If demolition work is taking place on the roof, H&S would require that you not be allowed near.

 

In this case, there was a wall that had been partially demolished by a contractor. There were no signs or exclusion zones and the hazard existed outwith the sightline. The contractor has a duty of care to work safely. The garage are liable under H&S for their contractor's actions.

 

The mechanic stated that the OP was not the first to collide. so the garage were also perfectly aware that there was a hazard but took no action to mitigate or warn of that hazard.

 

I accept that an individual also has duties under H&S, but this isn't a black and white case of the OP being 100% at fault.

[sophes]

Help is needed!

i've spoken to Tesco Car Insurance (my insurer) and they've advised me that the Legal Team of Tesco will not get involved in this case as there are no uninsured losses (loss of pay, injuries) and that if I registered the claim with them and ask the claims department to contact The Garage on my behalf it would be dealt with solely by the Claims/Split Liability Team and still not the legal team. I'm worried that if I entrust this matter to them then the FANTASTIC legal jargon concerning health and safety, mitigation and hazards won't be properly conveyed and the garage won't play ball.

Would you advise me to write to the garage myself? or have this matter dealt with through Tesco Car Insurance? I cannot afford to instruct my own legal team to deal with this matter on my behalf. All help thoroughly welcomed.

[Guest ArthurP]

You miss the point.

 

If demolition work is taking place on the roof, H&S would require that you not be allowed near.

 

In this case, there was a wall that had been partially demolished by a contractor. There were no signs or exclusion zones and the hazard existed outwith the sightline. The contractor has a duty of care to work safely. The garage are liable under H&S for their contractor's actions.

 

The mechanic stated that the OP was not the first to collide. so the garage were also perfectly aware that there was a hazard but took no action to mitigate or warn of that hazard.

 

I accept that an individual also has duties under H&S, but this isn't a black and white case of the OP being 100% at fault.

 

I have to say my earlier points were valid but you didn't mention them.

 

The OP says there was no works going on at the time of the accident as no contractors were present.

 

My point is that whether or not this wall had been reduced in size by builders the garage had employed the fact is that the OP hit a wall on the garages property.

 

As there were no works going on, no signs displaying works were going on and no builders present then how is this a H&S issue?

 

It is entirely up to the garage what size wall they wanted on their property and they may argue that they were satisfied with a few inches of boundry wall. (Until part of it was demolished by the OP so they decided to level it).

 

How do any of us know this isn't the case?

 

If this went to court it would be thrown out and the driver advised to be more careful when driving.

 

I'm sorry but there is no case here.

[Guest ArthurP]

No case, that is, other than a claim from the garage for damage to their wall!

[patdavies]

My point is that whether or not this wall had been reduced in size by builders the garage had employed the fact is that the OP hit a wall on the garages property.

 

As there were no works going on, no signs displaying works were going on and no builders present then how is this a H&S issue?

 

It is entirely up to the garage what size wall they wanted on their property and they may argue that they were satisfied with a few inches of boundry wall. (Until part of it was demolished by the OP so they decided to level it).

 

How do any of us know this isn't the case?

 

If this went to court it would be thrown out and the driver advised to be more careful when driving.

 

I'm sorry but there is no case here.

 

How do you also know that it isn't the case that the demolition work was commenced prior to the incident and completed afterwards.

 

In that case, for the whole duration of the demolition works, the area around the wall fell within the CDM regs for the whole duration of the works - regardless of whether there was anybody there actually working at the time.

 

I appreciate that we do not have the full facts (eg what was the state of the wall when it was hit prior to this?). However, it is not right to categorically state that this was entirely the driver's fault.

 

I would also be asking whether the demolition work had been notified. All demolition work must be pre-notified to the HSE; if it hasn't, then it is likely that the rest of the CDM regs were also ignored.

 

You argue that it is entirely up to the garage how high they wanted this wall to be - this is not so - under H&S they owe a duty of care to anyone who enters their premises; retaining a hazard like a wall so low as to be out of sight is a forseeable accident and they have a duty to mitigate the hazard and/or the risk. The fact that somebody else had already collided with it points to prior knowledge of the hazard.

 

I would argue that there is a strong case that the garage breached their duty of care.

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

I'm not quite so sure.

 

This comment

 

 

 

would imply that the garage were aware of the danger and did nothing to mitigate the hazard (In fact, they did so later by levelling the wall completely and professionally).

 

Whilst I accept that a prudent driver should not have collided with the wall, the fact remains that unless you were specifically warned then some liability may attach to the garage for having such a hazard without warning or mitigation. In short, they may have failed in their duty of care. If somebody in the garage had said "Watch out for the end of the wall", then they would be in the clear. As it was, there was hidden (as in out of sight) hazard.

 

Pat your advice is spot on.

As the wall damaging the car was 'A forseable risk' as evidenced by the garage employees remarks, the garage being negligent is almost certainly liable for the damage.

 

They should either have warned the driver, placed warning signs and/or barriers or driven the car beyond the hazard for the customer.

 

My advice would be to check with the vehicle insurer to see if they will pursue the garage or contact a solicitor who will pursue your claim via a CFA

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Pat your advice is spot on.

 

As the wall damaging the car was 'A foreseeable risk' as evidenced by the garage employees remarks, the garage being negligent is almost certainly liable for the damage.

 

They should either have warned the driver, placed warning signs and/or barriers or driven the car beyond the hazard for the customer.

 

Contact a solicitor who will pursue your claim via a CFA.

 

There most certainly is a case for the garage to answer

[sophes]

I've written a letter to the garage explaining most of the above and that i'd like them to pay for the damages. i've not heard back from them after 2 weeks of them having the letter (sent recorded). I'm terrified about ringing them! what can i do? send another letter? or bite the bullet?